Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Why because GCs say so? well we disagree, its the only real effect guarantee that you are afraid of what you put forward you can exploit and manipulate against us.

Yes. Because G/Cs say so. A Turkish "guarantee" is a complete non-starter. You cannot have a solution without our consent. And I'm telling you plain and simple so you can get used to the idea.

OK no solution.

First. Get used to the idea of no Turkish guarantee.
Second. Think what a compromise might look like. When you're stuck...
Third. Read my post above.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint...There are no jobs in the north because they have been given to your saviours - just like your children's school places and your hospital services (which are two more reasons you all come south). Whatever pittance you think you get down south, in terms of wages, goes a long, long way in the north because you are paid in Euros or Dollars or GB Pounds - all with far superior exchange rates than the Turk lira.

You are right to a certain extent except for schools we have more than enough private schools to cater for our children, only very few go south. Less and less workers are now going south due to the downturn in your economy so this we give you jobs argument is no longer valid.

You make me laugh they get better money because of the exchange rate, a pittance is a pittance what ever the currency, in short its cheap labor.

Yes, you're right, I don't profess to know how TC's feel when they come south, I just made the point you were over-stating how they felt. If TC's feel so terrified when they come to the south, why do they still come? If the north has everything they need (apart from jobs, school places, hospital places, etc.), why not just stay north?

Curiosity, something different, adventure, need, danger youd have to stand a the crossing and ask everyone to find that out.

My point was and still is TCs in general feel apprehensive and threatened in the south.

By the same token I don't know how TC's feel, you cannot generalise and profess to speak on behalf of the TC community as a whole. Whenever anyone goes to another country, they must abide by the rules and regulations of the land

I agree.


- how many GC's do you see standing in the gardens of their former homes, shouting it's their property and the people living there are thieves and robbers? It doesn't happen.

Didnt you read about this? it actually happened.


Everyone is apprehensive goign anyone to some degree. I am apprehensive going from Manchester to London or to Liverpool (if you know anything about England, these are two places Manchester people are not welcome in certain areas), but it doesn't stop me going because, deep down, I know nothing will happen. You're just as likely to get beaten up in your own area as you are somewhere else.

This is Cyprus we do not want to feel that way, thats what beautiful about our side we still feel very safe, you obviously cant say the same for the south.

Surely, word of mouth would spread any attacks on TC's by GC's like wildfire and there would be revenge attacks on GC's in the north and the press would find out.

We have reports in our newspapers all the time.


Have you ever heard of TC's being attacked since the opening of the crossings?

Yes.

I know my dad has been to the north, to see my granddad's old farm, but nothing happened to him. From that account, why should I have any reservations of going to the north? I have, because I wouldn't give the Turk economy any money and I don't want to be associated with there in its present state.

Your choice

Blimey, you state that Kikapu twists your words - what about you! Where did I state GC's would be vindicated in attacking TC's? I didn't - I stated GC's would be vindicated in showing animosity towards TC's.

I don't think there's any real animosity from GC's to TC's (though they would be totally vindicated if there was).

Is this your quote and who are they?


The problems that exist on the island are down to the Brits and the TC's.

The Gcs had nothing to do with it?


EOKA was formed to get rid of the Brits and the Brits only. The Brits got the TC's on their side so it was the GC's versus the Brits and the TC's.

Why do you think that was? the TCs siding with the Brits, could it be to do with not wanting to be a Greek island?

As I posted before, my granddad had a farm and emplyed TC's and they were all friendly with one another. My uncle was a village doctor who used to treat anyone and everyone - TC or GC - whether they could pay or not (and then he built one of the islands best clinics).

So they did not bury TCs alive but there were GCs who did.

Unfortunately, I can never see an end to the conflict and Cyprus as we know it will exist forever. Cyprus is not like Germany, where they were all German and basically the same people. It's not like Ireland, where the people are all Irish, they're just different religions (another place that will never be a united country).

We agree again.

[Viewpoint]

Why because GCs say so? well we disagree, its the only real effect guarantee that you are afraid of what you put forward you can exploit and manipulate against us.

Yes. Because G/Cs say so. A Turkish "guarantee" is a complete non-starter. You cannot have a solution without our consent. And I'm telling you plain and simple so you can get used to the idea.

OK no solution.

First. Get used to the idea of no Turkish guarantee.
Second. Think what a compromise might look like. When you're stuck...
Third. Read my post above.

You are not compromising here we are being asked to.

[Kikapu]

You are twisting and turning again, lets concentrate on one issue at a time and make it simple for you, the GCs and EU may not want Turkeys guarantees but the TCs and Turkey do, you cannot brush aside what we want there has to be a solid alternative or compromise acceptable to both sides. The compromise could be that Turkey guarantees the north state and not the whole island.

That's not a comprise, because the north state is the RoC and is the EU and neither will want anything to do with Turkey's so called guarantees. It will be like for the USA to agree that Mexico becomes the guarantor power for California only, just because 10 million Mexicans live in California. It's not on, so forget it and use some common sense, please.!

The only comprise I can think of, is for Turkey to take part as a NATO force in Cyprus for ALL Cypriots security. Other than that, you are just wasting every one's time.

So we are stuck we will not budge and there will be no solution.

Then you lose any BBF with a north/south states. The future settlement can then ONLY be a Unitary state with majority rule. That's the price Turkey and the TCs will need to pay in order for Turkey to be in the EU. It will then be the case of, "you snooze, you lose"!

I believe that will never happen as Turkey for one reason or another will never get in the EU so Im willing to take that chance. In 25 years time on the off chance that Turkey did accept a unitary state to enter the EU you will be begging for partition not us.

Illegal settlers today will always be illegal settlers tomorrow and Turkey will be sending them back, Because they will all become EU citizens for their troubles, but in Turkey and not in Cyprus, just as the case was with the Lausanne Treaty in 1923 where many "Muslims" were sent back to Turkey from Cyprus after being there for 300 years. That's the price Turkey will need to pay for EU membership and the price the TCs will pay for not having a BBF with a north state for themselves.

[Mapko]

Viewpoint...If the things that TC's want are 'Curiosity, something different, adventure, need, danger' - apart from the 'need' part, why don't they walk across a motorway, blindfolded? That way, they don't have to be so scared coming to the south!

You've just posted exactly what I stated I'd done - GC's would be vindicated in showing animosity towards TC's but NOT vindicated in attacking TC's.

There were bad things done on both sides but more so from the TC side. EOKA had to make do with WWII guns from Greece. The TC's, on the other hand, had the latest of everything from the Brits and the Turks.

I want to ask you a question and I want a really honest answer...if there were 100 people stood in front of you - 50 GC's and 50 TC's - all dressed the same and nobody talking, could you honestly pick every one of them 100%? I seriously doubt you could.

[Viewpoint]

hello Turkey going into the EU means they can stay, you cannot discriminate.....majority rule the "settlers" out number you so your biggest fear materializes right before your own eyes ( you might be dead) and of your own doing, karma.

[Mapko]

Viewpoint...The settlers outnumber YOU. You won't be alive to see it (in which case, you'll probably come back and state you don't care), but the TC as you know it will cease to exist. The GC will always exist because we're not outnubered - and won't be outnumbered - by anyone. Are you pleased that clinging on to Mother Turkeys apron strings will see you erased from the planet? Turkey is like Nazi Germany - anihilating a people and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint...If the things that TC's want are 'Curiosity, something different, adventure, need, danger' - apart from the 'need' part, why don't they walk across a motorway, blindfolded? That way, they don't have to be so scared coming to the south!

Its not the same and you know it plus there are thousands who do not travel to the south even my mother whos over 70 always says dont go or if you have to be careful of those GCs and she lived with you people.

You have to admit that there is a fear factor when you travel to the other side its natural due to our history, my wife and I always sigh in relief to be back in the north as we feel its home and where we feel safe.

You've just posted exactly what I stated I'd done - GC's would be vindicated in showing animosity towards TC's but NOT vindicated in attacking TC's.

Lets get this right you think its the right of GCs to show TCs hate but not attack them, I dont think either is right GCs are just as much to blame maybe more for their own troubles if anyone should be allowed to display animosity it should be the TCs against GCs.

There were bad things done on both sides but more so from the TC side. EOKA had to make do with WWII guns from Greece. The TC's, on the other hand, had the latest of everything from the Brits and the Turks.

Totally disagree, just think of your numbers and you will work it out if you cannot you need to do research.

I want to ask you a question and I want a really honest answer...if there were 100 people stood in front of you - 50 GC's and 50 TC's - all dressed the same and nobody talking, could you honestly pick every one of them 100%? I seriously doubt you could.

If there we 50 Turks and 50 Greeks could you pick them out? If there were 50 English and 50 Welsh could you pick them out? whats your point?

[Hermes]

You are not compromising here we are being asked to.

Wrong way of looking at it. What you need to consider is what would be acceptable to both parties. Now given that a Turkish guarantee over any of the island's affairs is unacceptable to the G/Cs you then have to consider what the next best solution would be.

Like I say, go away and think about it then you come back to my proposal of an external force such as the OSCE (of which Turkey is a member) that would enforce any settlement at the outset and guarantee the security of both parties.

It's really not that difficult.

[Mapko]

Viewpoint...Your mum lived with who? 'You people'? What the f*ck is that supposed to mean? There's a fear factor going anywhere you don't call 'home'. Anybody's mum would tell their kids to be careful doing anything. Going to the shops? Be careful. Going to work? Be careful. That's a generalisation (again on your part) that's unfair. Are all GC's the same to you?

The British army took EOKA guns and put GC's under curfew - they left the TC's armed, on the prowl and backed up by the Britsh army itself. No matter the number of GC's, under those conditions, the TC's would be unstoppable. Look at the numbers in any major war - Greece vs. Italy (Greece heavily outnumbered but beat the Italians); Germany vs. England (Germany couldn't take England); the USA vs. Korea/Vietnam/Afghanistan (all defeats for the USA); the MExican army vs. the Texans (Battle of the Alamo). Numbers has nothing to do with it.

You didn't answer the question - so I presume you know where I'm going with it. My point is, how do GC's know who you are if you visit the south? You and your wife are scared visitng the south, but nobody knows who you are unless you both wear T-shirts with "I love Turkey" and "F*ck the EOKA" on them!