Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Then hermes we have an impasse no solution.

Not at all. It would have to be a compromise like I outlined. T/Cs can't expect a solely Turkish "guarantee" after a solution. The most they can expect will be Turkish troops as part of a wider OSCE mission that will guarantee a settlement. In time any "guarantee" will have a sunset clause anyway.

[Viewpoint]

Then hermes we have an impasse no solution.

Not at all. It would have to be a compromise like I outlined. T/Cs can't expect a solely Turkish "guarantee" after a solution. The most they can expect will be Turkish troops as part of a wider OSCE mission that will guarantee a settlement. In time any "guarantee" will have a sunset clause anyway.

Our trust is only with Turkey we cannot be forced accept guarantees of body that could fatally delay in time of need to the benefit of the majority. In other words you cannot be trusted.

[Hermes]

Then hermes we have an impasse no solution.

Not at all. It would have to be a compromise like I outlined. T/Cs can't expect a solely Turkish "guarantee" after a solution. The most they can expect will be Turkish troops as part of a wider OSCE mission that will guarantee a settlement. In time any "guarantee" will have a sunset clause anyway.

Our trust is only with Turkey we cannot be forced accept guarantees of body that could fatally delay in time of need to the benefit of the majority. In other words you cannot be trusted.

You need to use your imagination. An external independent force to guarantee a settlement would be the only compromise that would work. This could certainly include Greek and Turkish troops as part of say an OSCE mission. Any talk of a Turkish, Greek or British guarantee is dead in the water. Any form of external guarantee would probably include a "sunset" clause anyway. This would be best for T/C's security too as they would have a vested interested in working towards a united federal island. A Turkish guarantee would only create separation, division and antagonism. It is really a formula for continuing chaos and uncertainty. You really need to think outside the box.

[Mapko]

Viewpoint...There are no jobs in the north because they have been given to your saviours - just like your children's school places and your hospital services (which are two more reasons you all come south). Whatever pittance you think you get down south, in terms of wages, goes a long, long way in the north because you are paid in Euros or Dollars or GB Pounds - all with far superior exchange rates than the Turk lira.

Yes, you're right, I don't profess to know how TC's feel when they come south, I just made the point you were over-stating how they felt. If TC's feel so terrified when they come to the south, why do they still come? If the north has everything they need (apart from jobs, school places, hospital places, etc.), why not just stay north? By the same token I don't know how TC's feel, you cannot generalise and profess to speak on behalf of the TC community as a whole. Whenever anyone goes to another country, they must abide by the rules and regulations of the land - how many GC's do you see standing in the gardens of their former homes, shouting it's their property and the people living there are thieves and robbers? It doesn't happen. Everyone is apprehensive goign anyone to some degree. I am apprehensive going from Manchester to London or to Liverpool (if you know anything about England, these are two places Manchester people are not welcome in certain areas), but it doesn't stop me going because, deep down, I know nothing will happen. You're just as likely to get beaten up in your own area as you are somewhere else.

Surely, word of mouth would spread any attacks on TC's by GC's like wildfire and there would be revenge attacks on GC's in the north and the press would find out. Have you ever heard of TC's being attacked since the opening of the crossings? I know my dad has been to the north, to see my granddad's old farm, but nothing happened to him. From that account, why should I have any reservations of going to the north? I have, because I wouldn't give the Turk economy any money and I don't want to be associated with there in its present state.

Blimey, you state that Kikapu twists your words - what about you! Where did I state GC's would be vindicated in attacking TC's? I didn't - I stated GC's would be vindicated in showing animosity towards TC's. The problems that exist on the island are down to the Brits and the TC's. EOKA was formed to get rid of the Brits and the Brits only. The Brits got the TC's on their side so it was the GC's versus the Brits and the TC's. As I posted before, my granddad had a farm and emplyed TC's and they were all friendly with one another. My uncle was a village doctor who used to treat anyone and everyone - TC or GC - whether they could pay or not (and then he built one of the islands best clinics).

Unfortunately, I can never see an end to the conflict and Cyprus as we know it will exist forever. Cyprus is not like Germany, where they were all German and basically the same people. It's not like Ireland, where the people are all Irish, they're just different religions (another place that will never be a united country).

[Kikapu]

You are twisting and turning again, lets concentrate on one issue at a time and make it simple for you, the GCs and EU may not want Turkeys guarantees but the TCs and Turkey do, you cannot brush aside what we want there has to be a solid alternative or compromise acceptable to both sides. The compromise could be that Turkey guarantees the north state and not the whole island.

That's not a comprise, because the north state is the RoC and is the EU and neither will want anything to do with Turkey's so called guarantees. It will be like for the USA to agree that Mexico becomes the guarantor power for California only, just because 10 million Mexicans live in California. It's not on, so forget it and use some common sense, please.!

The only comprise I can think of, is for Turkey to take part as a NATO force in Cyprus for ALL Cypriots security. Other than that, you are just wasting every one's time.

So we are stuck we will not budge and there will be no solution.

Then you lose any BBF with a north/south states. The future settlement can then ONLY be a Unitary state with majority rule. That's the price Turkey and the TCs will need to pay in order for Turkey to be in the EU. It will then be the case of, "you snooze, you lose"!

[CBBB]

Then hermes we have an impasse no solution.

Not at all. It would have to be a compromise like I outlined. T/Cs can't expect a solely Turkish "guarantee" after a solution. The most they can expect will be Turkish troops as part of a wider OSCE mission that will guarantee a settlement. In time any "guarantee" will have a sunset clause anyway.

Our trust is only with Turkey we cannot be forced accept guarantees of body that could fatally delay in time of need to the benefit of the majority. In other words you cannot be trusted.

You need to use your imagination. An external independent force to guarantee a settlement would be the only compromise that would work. Any talk of a Turkish, Greek or British guarantee is dead in the water. It's a complete non-starter.

You are wasting your breath mate, YFronts has the brain cell today.

[Viewpoint]

Then hermes we have an impasse no solution.

Not at all. It would have to be a compromise like I outlined. T/Cs can't expect a solely Turkish "guarantee" after a solution. The most they can expect will be Turkish troops as part of a wider OSCE mission that will guarantee a settlement. In time any "guarantee" will have a sunset clause anyway.

Our trust is only with Turkey we cannot be forced accept guarantees of body that could fatally delay in time of need to the benefit of the majority. In other words you cannot be trusted.

You need to use your imagination. An external independent force to guarantee a settlement would be the only compromise that would work. Any talk of a Turkish, Greek or British guarantee is dead in the water. It's a complete non-starter.

Why because GCs say so? well we disagree, its the only real effect guarantee that you are afraid of what you put forward you can exploit and manipulate against us.

[Hermes]

Why because GCs say so? well we disagree, its the only real effect guarantee that you are afraid of what you put forward you can exploit and manipulate against us.

Yes. You cannot have a solution without our consent. A Turkish "guarantee" is a complete non-starter. And I'm telling you plain and simple so you can get used to the idea.

[Viewpoint]

You are twisting and turning again, lets concentrate on one issue at a time and make it simple for you, the GCs and EU may not want Turkeys guarantees but the TCs and Turkey do, you cannot brush aside what we want there has to be a solid alternative or compromise acceptable to both sides. The compromise could be that Turkey guarantees the north state and not the whole island.

That's not a comprise, because the north state is the RoC and is the EU and neither will want anything to do with Turkey's so called guarantees. It will be like for the USA to agree that Mexico becomes the guarantor power for California only, just because 10 million Mexicans live in California. It's not on, so forget it and use some common sense, please.!

The only comprise I can think of, is for Turkey to take part as a NATO force in Cyprus for ALL Cypriots security. Other than that, you are just wasting every one's time.

So we are stuck we will not budge and there will be no solution.

Then you lose any BBF with a north/south states. The future settlement can then ONLY be a Unitary state with majority rule. That's the price Turkey and the TCs will need to pay in order for Turkey to be in the EU. It will then be the case of, "you snooze, you lose"!

I believe that will never happen as Turkey for one reason or another will never get in the EU so Im willing to take that chance. In 25 years time on the off chance that Turkey did accept a unitary state to enter the EU you will be begging for partition not us.

[Viewpoint]

Why because GCs say so? well we disagree, its the only real effect guarantee that you are afraid of what you put forward you can exploit and manipulate against us.

Yes. Because G/Cs say so. A Turkish "guarantee" is a complete non-starter. You cannot have a solution without our consent. And I'm telling you plain and simple so you can get used to the idea.

OK no solution.