Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Finally someone has some common sense at "Today's Zaman" to write it the way it is. Most probably because the author is not a sheep like most Turkish "pussy-whipped journalist" who are afraid to write the truth instead of towing the governments talking points propaganda. I hope the rest of the so called journalist at Zaman (and Hurriyet Daily News) will get a backbone and write facts rather than fiction. Who knows, they may even be called "journalist with integrity" again. I'm not holding my breath, however!

Scorching days in Cyprus

AMANDA PAUL
[email protected]

24 July 2011, Sunday

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan certainly put the cat among the pigeons during his recent visit to northern Cyprus.

While I believe everybody was aware that he was going to make a tough statement over the decades-old Cyprus problem and the lack of progress in talks, nobody imagined he would demonstrate such a tough and rather provocative stance.

Perhaps the prime minister was venting some built-up tension concerning other issues he is presently dealing with, both domestically and in foreign policy, and just decided to take it out on Cyprus. In any case, for me, a number of his comments were quite shocking and seemed to serve no useful purpose whatsoever, besides not being conducive to peace talks, which are presently at a very crucial stage.

Having managed to secure the UN deadline it wanted regarding peace talks, Ankara is now turning up pressure on the Greek Cypriots, who have been holding back progress and refusing to accept any timeframes. While I can understand why he placed such great emphasis on the need for this round of peace talks to deliver -- and the consequences of the Cypriot’s 2012 EU presidency for Turkey-EU relations if they don’t -- I am perplexed by his need to go into detail, which he must have realized could seriously damage the talks.

Saying that Turkey was now prepared to offer the Greek Cypriots less than was envisaged in the 2004 Annan plan undermines the process and at the same time makes it abundantly clear that Turkey is the one deciding -- not the Turkish Cypriots. I am at a loss to understand what he hoped to achieve by stating that neither Güzelyurt (Morfou) nor part of Karpaz would be returned to the Greek Cypriots in an eventual deal or saying that the time for concessions was over and done with. It is obvious to everybody that the Greek Cypriots will not accept a deal that does not include the return of Morfou. Indeed, this also completely contradicts what the UN and others have been telling the two sides -- that now is the time to forget about maximalist goals and move to a period of serious give and take.

The comments regarding the need for Turkish Cypriots to have more babies if they did not want more mainland settlers was also uncalled for. Turkish Cypriots are not Turks and one only has to check birth statistics to see that they have no habit of having three or four children per family. The fact that the Turkish Cypriots were “subjected” to British rule, like the Greek Cypriots, has given them a unique character different from their cousins in Turkey. It may come as a shock to many in Turkey, but some Turkish Cypriots -- while they are of course grateful for all of Turkey’s assistance -- don’t actually want to be seen as Turks, even though many in Turkey seem to believe this is almost a privilege.

Not surprisingly, the Greek Cypriot media took Erdoğan’s comments as inflammatory but also ironic, pointing out that Erdoğan was in effect supporting a position advocated by many Greek Cypriots and their political parties -- including President Dimitris Christofias, who promised in his election campaign that the Annan plan would be buried.

Well it seems that Erdoğan has done that now. Really, I wonder how on earth the two leaders will progress from this point. Furthermore, this all happened at a time when the Cypriot economy is in a state of emergency and Christofias is still under pressure to step down following a munitions explosion.

Furthermore, Erdoğan also managed to throw a grenade into Turkish-Greek relations, as the Greek foreign minister reacted sharply to his comments, saying that a resolution to the Cyprus problem was a precondition to the normalization of Turkey-Greece relations, which the latest International Crisis Group (ICG) report on developments in the Aegean stated was not the case only a day earlier.

The international community has not reacted to Erdoğan’s comments directly. For its part, the EU has appointed a new special envoy, José César das Neves, a former Portuguese diplomat currently working as an advisor to the European Commission president. Perhaps they believe he has a magic formula that will save Cyprus, but I somehow doubt it.

Following the two Cypriot leaders’ meeting with Ban Ki-moon in Geneva only a few weeks ago, there was optimism that a deal could be found. Erdoğan’s remarks may well have helped pour cold water on that. Indeed, one may sum up many Greek Cypriots’ desire to share Cyprus with the Turkish Cypriots in a recent statement from Greek Cypriot Archbishop Chrysostomos, who expressed dismay upon learning that the Turkish Cypriots would supply the south with power to help them deal with the recent electricity shortage. “I’d rather get by with a lantern and flashlight” than accept help from the Turkish Cypriots, he said.

http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-25 ... yprus.html

[bigOz]

just split the country 80-20 and build a big wall and let the t/c do whatever they want,WHy would g/c what to deal with these idiots to begin with.

Absolutely right Bulio - you keep pussyfooting about an agreement where you see TCs as your equals and a wall will be erected across Cyprus - BUT not dividing it as 20-80%. More like as 35% and 65%...

[kurupetos]

just split the country 80-20 and build a big wall and let the t/c do whatever they want,WHy would g/c what to deal with these idiots to begin with.

Absolutely right Bulio - you keep pussyfooting about an agreement where you see TCs as your equals and a wall will be erected across Cyprus - BUT not dividing it as 20-80%. More like as 35% and 65%...

50-50 is more fair. Why settle for less?

[jahitty]

Excellent article, although one should never be suprised that this outburst reveals that 'it's really Turkey thats calling the shots' this has been the case since the 60's! Democraticlly minded TC;s have never had the chance too becuase ALL Turkish governments have only ever supported corrupt TC administrations.

[Kikapu]

So in short you are saying its a choice between the two ends of the stick which are both shitty, the Gcs and the Turks??

ONLY if you confuse the difference between the TCs living as a majority in a north state, in a BBF under EU Principles with ALL their rights protected with the GCs, OR, getting beat up by the Fascists and the Turks in the north while trying to exercise their so called Democratic rights, along with, in time not having their identity left or having any significance importance amongst the 70+ million Turks living the life of citizens from any developing country but where full democracy does not exist. Is that what you meant.?

Better the devil you know

As usual you are very confused individual, because the "Devil" you already know, is the RoC (GCs) and not Turkey (Turks). You know the RoC's past, present and her future in the EU where your EU Principles will be guaranteed along with your security. The "Devil" that you don't know, Turkey, is a constantly changing world for the TCs. Firsts they told the TCs they saved them, then they were told the north was now their country, then they flooded the north with the Anatolian, then they were told they were "kept Parasites", and then are beaten up if they exercise their so called democratic right. This are all the nkown facts. What you don't know is where TCs future is going to be, and looking at the past trends, the future does not look too rosy for the TCs, therefore, you have gotten your "Devils" in the wrong order. But then again, you are very good at getting aeverything in wrong order, or just plain, WRONG.

...do you know why I would never choose the GCs on the terms you state above, its because I do not trust you one iota

It would be oxymoronic to believe, that for anyone who is a Fascist NeoPartitionists would accept anything anyone says about Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU Principles. It is a given that you do not trust these values, or else how can you violate the above principles if you lived in such a system. The north does not have these values, hence the fact you feel right at home. I got it

.....what you peddle is faulty and open to exploitation by the majority being the GCs, we would in no time be a minority amongst GCs

Don't worry, because by Erdogan refusing to give any land back, he is in fact ensuring that the TCs will become a minority in the north in a settlement , when 200,000 will come to flood you, then there would go the north to the GCs eventually.

where we would be forced to even remove the word Turkish from our football team names all in the name of democracy ey Kikapu.

Actually the word was "Turk" and not "Turkish". In a Democracy, you cannot do everything you want, if it means certain things will create problems, just like you cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, because it will create problems. Having the word "Turk" after Lefke for a football team in the south, which the word "Turk" represents Turkey and not the TCs, is not a good idea, specially when the Turks occupy the northern part of Cyprus. It will also discourage unity between the TCs and the GCs, specially if the GCs also would like to play on the same team as the TCs, on the Lefke team.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

As usual you are very confused individual, because the "Devil" you already know, is the RoC (GCs) and not Turkey (Turks). You know the RoC's past, present and her future in the EU where your EU Principles will be guaranteed along with your security. The "Devil" that you don't know, Turkey, is a constantly changing world for the TCs. Firsts they told the TCs they saved them, then they were told the north was now their country, then they flooded the north with the Anatolian, then they were told they were "kept Parasites", and then are beaten up if they exercise their so called democratic right. This are all the nkown facts. What you don't know is where TCs future is going to be, and looking at the past trends, the future does not look too rosy for the TCs, therefore, you have gotten your "Devils" in the wrong order. But then again, you are very good at getting aeverything in wrong order, or just plain, WRONG.

Hello we have been living with this devil for 37 years we know everything there is to know as you stated above experiencing first hand but lets for one minute accept that the GCs are the devil we knew before well hell who wants to go back there to those bad times so my original statement still stand better the devil you know. We can have what you peddle tomorrow by moving south yet the majority remain north with the devil they know, understand and trust.

It would be oxymoronic to believe, that for anyone who is a Fascist NeoPartitionists would accept anything anyone says about Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU Principles. It is a given that you do not trust these values, or else how can you violate the above principles if you lived in such a system. The north does not have these values, hence the fact you feel right at home. I got it

these values can and will easily be manipulated and exploited by the GCs to the determent of the TCs below you yourself have proven this to be a fact by removing the word Turk from Lefke Football Team.

Don't worry, because by Erdogan refusing to give any land back, he is in fact ensuring that the TCs will become a minority in the north in a settlement , when 200,000 will come to flood you, then there would go the north to the GCs eventually.

Acceptable with upper house quotas and guarantees.

Actually the word was "Turk" and not "Turkish". In a Democracy, you cannot do everything you want, if it means certain things will create problems, just like you cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, because it will create problems. Having the word "Turk" after Lefke for a football team in the south, which the word "Turk" represents Turkey and not the TCs, is not a good idea, specially when the Turks occupy the northern part of Cyprus. It will also discourage unity between the TCs and the GCs, specially if the GCs also would like to play on the same team as the TCs, on the Lefke team.

See how your values can take away my rights..thank you for proving my point.

[EPSILON]

just split the country 80-20 and build a big wall and let the t/c do whatever they want,WHy would g/c what to deal with these idiots to begin with.

Absolutely right Bulio - you keep pussyfooting about an agreement where you see TCs as your equals and a wall will be erected across Cyprus - BUT not dividing it as 20-80%. More like as 35% and 65%...

50-50 is more fair. Why settle for less?

Comparing Greece/Cyprus -present leadership- is not the time to consider 100 per cent control of Cyprus under Ertogan's presidency?May be by this way G/cs can find their rights in the Island!!!

[Kikapu]

As usual you are very confused individual, because the "Devil" you already know, is the RoC (GCs) and not Turkey (Turks). You know the RoC's past, present and her future in the EU where your EU Principles will be guaranteed along with your security. The "Devil" that you don't know, Turkey, is a constantly changing world for the TCs. Firsts they told the TCs they saved them, then they were told the north was now their country, then they flooded the north with the Anatolian, then they were told they were "kept Parasites", and then are beaten up if they exercise their so called democratic right. This are all the nkown facts. What you don't know is where TCs future is going to be, and looking at the past trends, the future does not look too rosy for the TCs, therefore, you have gotten your "Devils" in the wrong order. But then again, you are very good at getting aeverything in wrong order, or just plain, WRONG.

Kikapu
Hello we have been living with this devil for 37 years we know everything there is to know as you stated above experiencing first hand but lets for one minute accept that the GCs are the devil we knew before well hell who wants to go back there to those bad times so my original statement still stand better the devil you know. We can have what you peddle tomorrow by moving south yet the majority remain north with the devil they know, understand and trust.

You don't know everything of the "Devil" (Turkey) you think you know, because it keeps changing it's spots, and each change makes it worse for the TCs. The fact that you choose to ignore it, just because you are not effected by it personally, just because you think you are a Turk, and maybe you are, therefore, you keep changing your spots also, just to keep up with your "Devil" at the expense of vast majority of the TCs.

As for the other "Devil" (RoC), it too has changed it's "spots" along the way from the past to present, but it seems for the better. They are now one of 27 " major spots" in the EU. Your "Devil" will never be able to match that unless it too changes it's "spots" for the better. I'm not holding my breath however.

As for why the TCs do not move to the south, it's because they are suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome". They are in a state of shock and disbelief. They will be freed when the north becomes under the EU Principles protection for them. Right now they are stuck where they are. Just as well, otherwise you will bring over more illegal settlers as you have done all along. The TCs must be in your way, so you want to cleanse them from the north also, as you have done with the GCs, but you are stuck with them. Too bad for you.

It would be oxymoronic to believe, that for anyone who is a Fascist NeoPartitionists would accept anything anyone says about Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU Principles. It is a given that you do not trust these values, or else how can you violate the above principles if you lived in such a system. The north does not have these values, hence the fact you feel right at home. I got it

these values can and will easily be manipulated and exploited by the GCs to the determent of the TCs below you yourself have proven this to be a fact by removing the word Turk from Lefke Football Team.

Not like what happened with the 1960 constitution, where non of these values existed, which allowed Greece, Turkey and Britain to take advantages of all Cypriots. How come you do not speak out for Turkey violating her responsibilities as per her guarantor obligations.? Don't tell me, it's because you are benefiting from stolen GCs properties, which are safeguarded to you by Turkey. Why don't you ask Turkey, Greece and Britain to also guarantee you all the Democratic, Human Rights, International laws and the EU Principles for a settlement, rather than asking them to guarantee just the opposite. You have zero argument, because you accept illegalities just because you personally benefit from it, but refuse for them to guarantee legalities instead, because it will be bad for you personally.

Don't worry, because by Erdogan refusing to give any land back, he is in fact ensuring that the TCs will become a minority in the north in a settlement , when 200,000 will come to flood you, then there would go the north to the GCs eventually.

Acceptable with upper house quotas and guarantees.

Keep dreaming. Without land compromise from the north, you won't get anything. Just a guaranteed Democratic process. You won't even get the "Rotating Presidency". Now what do you say.?

Actually the word was "Turk" and not "Turkish". In a Democracy, you cannot do everything you want, if it means certain things will create problems, just like you cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, because it will create problems. Having the word "Turk" after Lefke for a football team in the south, which the word "Turk" represents Turkey and not the TCs, is not a good idea, specially when the Turks occupy the northern part of Cyprus. It will also discourage unity between the TCs and the GCs, specially if the GCs also would like to play on the same team as the TCs, on the Lefke team.

See how your values can take away my rights..thank you for proving my point.

Well, nobody has forced the team to drop it's "Turk" name as far as I know, so you are blowing hot air. That's why when ever there are such disputes in a democratic societies, such questions are dealt with in the courts, based on law and the constitution, unlike the north, where corruption is at center stage in how things gets done, which is what you want and benefit from, because it is what you are used to and what you like to have. In a Democracy nothing is guaranteed, other than what the constitution and the law provides for you as well as the Democratic Process. Only in Dictatorship societies where anything is guaranteed, for the worse however, except for the very few privileged ones, which is how you want to be, the privileged few over the masses. Forget it.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

You don't know everything of the "Devil" (Turkey) you think you know, because it keeps changing it's spots, and each change makes it worse for the TCs. The fact that you choose to ignore it, just because you are not effected by it personally, just because you think you are a Turk, and maybe you are, therefore, you keep changing your spots also, just to keep up with your "Devil" at the expense of vast majority of the TCs.

Rubbish you are believing your own shit again. Turkey has been our only ally for as long as we can remember, far better than the GCs who tried to sell us out just like yourself to Greece dead or alive.

As for the other "Devil" (RoC), it too has changed it's "spots" along the way from the past to present, but it seems for the better. They are now one of 27 " major spots" in the EU. Your "Devil" will never be able to match that unless it too changes it's "spots" for the better. I'm not holding my breath however.

You believe the mirage you see, you can place a saddle on a donkey but it dont make it a race horse, the GC mentality has not changed they still view us not as an equal community but at a minority amongst GCs.

As for why the TCs do not move to the south, it's because they are suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome". They are in a state of shock and disbelief. They will be freed when the north becomes under the EU Principles protection for them. Right now they are stuck where they are. Just as well, otherwise you will bring over more illegal settlers as you have done all along. The TCs must be in your way, so you want to cleanse them from the north also, as you have done with the GCs, but you are stuck with them. Too bad for you.

Why do you want to impose your rights on people who are content with the devil they know, if they wanted they could move south tomorrow but no one wants to be a minority among GCs and accept what you peddle as they know what the consequences will be, they might as well go live in France or the UK at least on those countries they will have a better chance of living a normal life.

Not like what happened with the 1960 constitution, where non of these values existed, which allowed Greece, Turkey and Britain to take advantages of all Cypriots. How come you do not speak out for Turkey violating her responsibilities as per her guarantor obligations.? Don't tell me, it's because you are benefiting from stolen GCs properties, which are safeguarded to you by Turkey. Why don't you ask Turkey, Greece and Britain to also guarantee you all the Democratic, Human Rights, International laws and the EU Principles for a settlement, rather than asking them to guarantee just the opposite. You have zero argument, because you accept illegalities just because you personally benefit from it, but refuse for them to guarantee legalities instead, because it will be bad for you personally.

Turkey is still here supporting us trying to find a solution as part of her guarantor obligations and will only leave when we agree a solution. What we have in the north has nothing to do with you all you have to know is that what you peddle is not acceptable as we know full well that it can easily be manipulated to benefit GCs and exclude us.

Keep dreaming. Without land compromise from the north, you won't get anything. Just a guaranteed Democratic process. You won't even get the "Rotating Presidency". Now what do you say.?

No you dream on about returning to the North we will not take that leap of faith you demand without quotas and guarantees.

Well, nobody has forced the team to drop it's "Turk" name as far as I know, so you are blowing hot air. That's why when ever there are such disputes in a democratic societies, such questions are dealt with in the courts, based on law and the constitution, unlike the north, where corruption is at center stage in how things gets done, which is what you want and benefit from, because it is what you are used to and what you like to have. In a Democracy nothing is guaranteed, other than what the constitution and the law provides for you as well as the Democratic Process. Only in Dictatorship societies where anything is guaranteed, for the worse however, except for the very few privileged ones, which is how you want to be, the privileged few over the masses. Forget it.

So this is a flaw in what you peddle which can take away my right to call my football team whatever i want..if nothing is guaranteed eg law order and security how do you expect people to live peacefully and without fear for their lives.

Kikapu we will never agree on anything as we do not trust nor respect each other.

[supporttheunderdog]

Turkey's (and for that matter Greece's) Gurantor obligations were not to one part of of the population but to the ROC as established in 1960 as a whole.

They could fulil them by removing support for the illegal and unrecognised (except by Turkey) TRNC and by removing their troops.

In that respect the maintainance of the attacks on Cyprus after the coup had collapsed and the later creation of the so called TRNC represent the clearest indication of Turkey's motives - i.e. to partition the island - which they were in fact commited by the treaties not to to do.

They did their job, they stopped the lunacy of Enosis, now the troops can go home as the Kybrilis's rights are protected by EU law, which will apply to the whole Island only when the legitimate ROC Government can impose the aqis over the whoel Island.

The TNRC will however never be a part of the EU while Turkey pursues partition (nor will Turkey).