Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I found the information at the bluebird web site very very interesting especially on who the Linobambaki really were.There were Muslims Linobambaki too, converting to avoid military service LOL.
Also did i read correct that the Ottomans did not count the women in their censuses, and that those were done over a 2 year period?

You are rambling Pyro.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyro we are debating figures provided by Kikapu which are obviously dubious and very misleading. i thought you claimed this racist double checks his sources, obviously he has tricked you as well as his other bum licking followers.

His figures are exactly the same as mine from different sources VP. Just look at them closely.
I am personally convinced they are true because they are also in line with what I remember I 've read in the Cyprus conflict web site that the PERCENTAGE of Mouslim population got reduced after the British took over.

4 reasons for that
a)The mouslim population included many Crypto-Christians so called Linobambaki
b)The Orthodox population PERCENTAGE started rising because they were equally treated as the mouslim one under the British
c)The Turks at administrative positions had no future in Cyprus so they left after the British came here.
d)The Lausagne treaty forced many Kibrislis to abandon the place (Haven't search on that perhaps Deniz can tell us more)

If you see the figures posted by Kikapu and mine they all agree the percentages at 1878 were 74% Kypreos, 24.5% kibrislis 1.7% others.

So what is it that you don't like from the above? And why should we stick to the maximum percentage a community ever had in this island?
Imo the only fair thing is to stick to the percentages we had when the Republic was formed, because that's the only binding agreement we ever had, no?

[Kikapu]

Pyro we are debating figures provided by Kikapu which are obviously dubious and very misleading. i thought you claimed this racist double checks his sources, obviously he has tricked you as well as his other bum licking followers.

That's what makes you a second rate propagandist, just because you are lousy at it, where you can't even lie without getting caught out.

Who ever is paying you for such a lousy propaganda work, they are throwing good money after bad.

Actually, link with the population figures below was first given to us by Insan as shown below at this link cyprus22110-30.html

The TCs in Cyprus are a minority. You think that because Ottomans ruled Cyprus centuries ago it means that your 18% is not a minority? If that was the case then the Turks in Bulgaria or Greece would not be a minority either. Neither the Greeks in Turkey would.

Basically you are a greedy minority of 18% who is trying to get more than what proportionally belongs to you on the expense of every other Cypriot, by collaborating with the invaders of Cyprus.

TC community has never been a minority and exert not to be a minority. TC population was 35% of total population of Cyprus. Just because the insistence of GC leadership and the clashes followed by, negatively affected the development, migration rate and fertility rate of TC community. That's why population of TC community reduced to 20% by 1960.

So that would be the fault of the British, wouldn't it, if your figures are correct. The British ruled until 1960, so when was it that the "TC's" numbers were at 35%, in 1571 or what.?

Not only the changed British mentality followed ww2 but intense emotional violence created by GC nationalists as well.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

Just before the Ottomans ceded Cyprus to the Brits, TC population was 60.000 out of 186.000 total population of Cyprus.

Table 7. Turkish Cypriot Population, Selected Dates, Sixteenth Century to 1988

Date Population*
Sixteenth century 40,000 to 60,000
Eighteenth century 60,000
1881 45,458
1911 56,428
1921 61,339
1931 64,245
1946 80,548
1960 104,333
1963 120,000
1972 78,000
1978 146,740
1982 152,239
1986 162,676
1988 167,256
* Figures through 1960 are based on Ottoman and British estimates and censuses. Figures thereafter are provided by Turkish Cypriot authorities.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/cyprus/cy_appen.html

[Pyrpolizer]

I found the information at the bluebird web site very very interesting especially on who the Linobambaki really were.There were Muslims Linobambaki too, converting to avoid military service LOL.
Also did i read correct that the Ottomans did not count the women in their censuses, and that those were done over a 2 year period?

You are rambling Pyro.

You are writing hostile one liners VP that contribute zilch to this forum.
Other of course than satisfying your need for whips

[DTA]

Hello again DTA,

Here’s the link about The Cyprus Conflict Web site
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/

Now about the population percentages at 1878 when the British took over here are some results that I found


From there on here’s what each one says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

By 1872, the population of the island had risen to 144,000 comprising 44,000 Muslims and 100,000 Christians.[43]
[43]Osmanli Nufusu 1830–1914 by Kemal Karpat, ISBN 975-333-169-X and Die Vo"lker des Osmanischen by Ritter zur Helle von Samo.

http://www.cypnet.co.uk/ncyprus/people/ ... index.html
At the time of the British arrival in Cyprus in 1878 under the Cyprus Defence Alliance between Great Britain and the Ottoman Empire, approximately 95,000 Turkish-Cypriots were residing on the island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_history_of_Cyprus

The British authorities carried out the first census in 1881, the total population of Cyprus was 186,173, of which 137,631 (73,9%) were Greeks, 45,438 (24,4%) were Turks and 3,084 (1,7%) were minorities of Maronites, Latins and Armenians.

[1]Language contact and the lexicon in the history of Cypriot Greek, Stavroula Varella, page 69, 2006

http://www.bluebirdresearch.com/category/blog/cyprus/

The Cyprus census returns of 1881, 1891 and 1901 show how small the population was: respectively, 186,173, 209,286 and 237,022 persons. The population was overwhelmingly rural too: the largest town, Nicosia, had only 11,536, 12,515 and 14,752 inhabitants in these three census years. As for religion, the population was majority Greek Orthodox: 73.9% in 1881, 75.8% in 1891 and 77.1% in 1901 (although the figures for Nicosia were markedly lower, being only 54.2% Orthodox in 1901). The great majority of the remainder of the population was of course Sunni Muslim.*

So which one do you think is the most reliable source and what the real figures? I would personally trust the British censunses.

I do remember that I ‘ve read somewhere in the Cyprus conflict web site that the Mouslim population got reduced after the British took over. But unfortunately I couldn’t find the exact quote. The sure thing is that by the 1960 census the Kibrislis were about 18%

Thanks pyro for taking the time. Will have a read of some of the links.

[Kikapu]

Bir great to see you around please stay.

Where did Erdogan say two separate independent states? from what we heard and read he saying two states under a BBF. He saying you have until Jan/Feb of next you year to solve this thing otherwise you can all go to hell and we will find our own solution. We will freeze the EU if the GCs are heading it as we do not recognize them nor will we accept them as our point of contact for the EU.

Now i want to see what the GCs and EU will do they have the balls to do anything? or will they pressurize the GCs to finally agree a solution?

Poor GCs have no hope,VP..The Church and fascist fanatical nationalists are still very influential in the roc and will never allow the politicians to agree to anything..Turkey has what she wants (strong influence in Cyprus) and the EU has what she wants (Turkey out)...This is the end game...Finally Erdogan feels strong enough domestically to tell the EU to go to hell...What he wanted to say all along...
I will tell you what the future holds...Turkey will have a new political presidential federal system within the next 5 years...kktc will be one of the semi-autonomous states (along with Turkish Kurdistan) in this new federation...Erdogan will be the President for life,ruling an autocratic police state...Good night and good luck to you all...

Hi Bir. Nice to have you back.

With your last 2 sentences above, don't you think they are good enough reason for the TCs in the north to embrace BBF for Cyprus with Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU principles to ensure their future within the EU for a better life, or do you think they are masochist and would want to live in a police state, much like all those from the Arab states, where some who have now finally broken loose from years of oppression.? I know VP would welcome living in a police state controlled by Turkey rather than live in a Democracy with the GCs, but what about the rest of the TCs ? I also like to know why will it be the GCs fault if the TCs would choose to live in a police state under Turkey instead in a Democratic Cyprus, assuming of course, that Turkey will be able to grab the north, or even wants to from the EU in the first place, which I sincerely doubt on both accounts. Thanks.

Hi Kikapu...

I am afraid it is too late for the TCs to decide their own fate...Unless they want to pack up on mass and move to the South...Which they will not do because they still remember what it was like for them between 63-74...Nothing much has changed in the GC mentality to warrant unconditional trust necessary for such a move...

Hi Bir,

I agree that the TCs have painted themselves into a corner, on their own volition I may add, by basically selling their voting power to the settlers. That was just beyond greed, but pure stupidity on their part, but of course, at the time they were doing it, they felt that they were doing the right thing, not knowing that their own leaders were deceiving them with promises, that they were going to be become "masters of their own domain". Didn't quite work out that way, but since the north does not live by "Rule of Law", there is nothing preventing the TCs in the north to say, ONLY those with Cypriot citizenship passport holders can vote in future referendums and that all the settlers who were given "trnc citizenship" are not allowed to vote. Those settlers can ONLY vote for matters concerning within the "trnc" and not concerning Cyprus. But would they do it, it's another matter. They have choices. It is only a matter of whether they will take it or not. TCs going to the south in large numbers is not a very practical thing to do before a settlement is reached. It has nothing to do with security, but making it workable. It does not solve the problems of Turkey still occupying the north. They will just bring more settlers, that's all.

The TCs also need to move away from playing the victim as to why they cannot move forward in what happened during 63-74 era. No one has clean hands in Cyprus, going back to 1958, so, in order to move forward, we need to accept what has happened in the past and start living in the present and the future. There are many examples other countries to have done that. But our problem is not so much with the people of Cyprus themselves, but Turkey and what she wants, and we have seen Erdogan in action this week as to where the problems lie with the Cyprus problems and why people of Cyprus cannot move into the future for better life, if Turkey is allowed to dictate to the TCs what they can do and what they can't do. It is up to the TCs do act now to accept BBF with EU Principles before it really is too late for them, either being marginalized by the Turks now, or by the GCs in the future, when Turkey sell-out the TCs for her to become a EU member sometime in the future. Erdogan is not always going to be around.

I read something online in the TC press last night which brought tears to my eyes...Someone was commenting on the police violence during Erdogan's visit..."we were once beaten up by the British,then we were beaten up by the GCs,and now we are beaten up by the Turks,our saviours...Such is the fate of the TCs..."

It is no time for the TCs to start feeling sorry for themselves in the predicament they now find themselves in. As I said, there is plenty of blame to go around and playing the victim will only weaken their future prospects. They must be able to see that their leaders have not brought them the "promised land" told to them, but instead getting beat up by trying to exercise their democratic rights. Well my friend, the ONLY way the TCs are going to be able to exercise their Democratic rights is by being in the EU as EU citizens with EU Principles, or else their beatings will continue. The Fascists will not show any mercy on them.

Rightly or wrongly, the TCs will always prefer to be beaten up by their own kind than risk humiliation by the GCs...There is nothing you and I can do about that...That is how it is,naturally,historically,collective consiousnesslly...

I do not know what humiliation the TCs will face by the GCs under a BBF with EU Principles, but they are being humiliated and beaten right now. If they prefer to be beaten by their so called saviours than live under a BBF with EU Principles, then I'm afraid it is too late for the TCs to survive as a community, because they have already succumb to the effects of "Stockholm Syndrome", perpetrated on them by their own "saviours" that beat them up. If that is the case, then it is Check, Mate and Game for the TCs as a community. One can only bring the donkey to the water trough, but one cannot force it to drink it. The TCs need to do it themselves if they want to remain as Cypriots, or else, they will become the insignificant few amongst the 70+ million Turks, and the time is running out for them, fast.

[Viewpoint]

So in short you are saying its a choice between the two ends of the stick which are both shitty, the Gcs and the Turks??

[Kikapu]

So in short you are saying its a choice between the two ends of the stick which are both shitty, the Gcs and the Turks??

ONLY if you confuse the difference between the TCs living as a majority in a north state, in a BBF under EU Principles with ALL their rights protected with the GCs, OR, getting beat up by the Fascists and the Turks in the north while trying to exercise their so called Democratic rights, along with, in time not having their identity left or having any significance importance amongst the 70+ million Turks living the life of citizens from any developing country but where full democracy does not exist. Is that what you meant.?

[humanist]

fundamentalists from all aspects of social life cannot see beyond their narrow minded views.

[Viewpoint]

So in short you are saying its a choice between the two ends of the stick which are both shitty, the Gcs and the Turks??

ONLY if you confuse the difference between the TCs living as a majority in a north state, in a BBF under EU Principles with ALL their rights protected with the GCs, OR, getting beat up by the Fascists and the Turks in the north while trying to exercise their so called Democratic rights, along with, in time not having their identity left or having any significance importance amongst the 70+ million Turks living the life of citizens from any developing country but where full democracy does not exist. Is that what you meant.?

Better the devil you know...do you know why I would never choose the GCs on the terms you state above, its because I do not trust you one iota....what you peddle is faulty and open to exploitation by the majority being the GCs, we would in no time be a minority amongst GCs where we would be forced to even remove the word Turkish from our football team names all in the name of democracy ey Kikapu.