Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

I am a little perplexed by the reaction to these comments. So I will offer my opinion, and it is only my opinion so not saying it is correct but here it goes:

Erdogan wants a solution to the cyprus problem so what he has done is this:

he has made the Tcs more willing to compromise by cutting our budget at a time when the the Turkish economy is doing well compared to a lot of other economies, he had no reason to do this at the moment if he didn't want a solution, because Turkeys economy is at the moment (and hopefully in the future as well) in the accendancy. So if partition was what he wanted he would have increased the the TRNC budget to make us less likely to compromise.

But this has led to the GCs being in a position of power in the negotiations.

So to balance this power he has made the statement that if an agreement is not reached by by 2012 then the he will try for the recognition of the TRNC, thus putting pressure on both sides to be willing to compromise.

He has also stated that the solution (reached in 2012) will follow a BBF with political equality, which is what we both want no? so what's the problem?

like I said that is my opinion and it could be wrong but that is may take on it.

Both sides should compromise or both will lose.

Erdogan wants a settlement based on the Annan Plan which he cannot have. That's what his whole hissy fit was all about. Didn't we "teach" you what the AP was all about a while back here ( cyprus33476.html ), as to why the GCs will not go for anything like the AP, which yourself agreed that the AP was "way over the top". In the mean time, Turkey will lose economically by staying out of the EU, as well as the Turks, and more importantly, the TCs. Who ever said that only Turkey has a plan "B" when it comes to Cyprus. The RoC also have a plan "B". It's called "Erdogan".

What I found was totally not accepatble to the Annan plan was the limitation of births for the gcs in the now TRNC. That was something that I was not aware of, and to me was completely not fair or right.

I don't even remember reading this at all, but even if it's true, you have missed far more important issues in the AP that are objectionable to the GCs for a settlement. I suggest you re read your own thread with the link here cyprus33476.html .

without being rude to you, do you realise how patronising you sound+ "teach me"

I was not being patronising at at. Did you not say in your thread with the above link, "Can I ask specifically what was wrong with the Annan plan".?, to which we "educated" you with the information you were seeking.? Stop being so sensitive for God sake.

For me I am not like you i am not willing to kiss and make up, if we are to unite, which i am not against then it will be within a bbf with political equality.

We can't be all perfect.

Political equality does not mean the TCs can violate others democratic and Human Rights, which the AP did. That would be called, "political inequality"

for us the the TCs, to want to unite with the Gcs , then a cypriot identity must be formulated and reinforced. This cyrpriot identity must not me be a Gc dominated cypriot identity but a TC and GC mix.

You will become a Cypriot like any one else, The good, the bad and the ugly, in good times and the bad times. Is there any other way of being an equal citizen of any country.?

by the way I read a website (turkish) that stated that on the hand over to the british that the Tc community was roughly 45% of cyprus - but to be honest I cant read turkish to well (I was born in the uk- and we only talked English at home so I am self taught), if you want i will dig out the link for you to translate.... and tell me the authors as I dont know how accurate it is.

Reading any Turkish website on Cyprus is your first mistake and should be avoided at all costs, or else you will be lead down the wrong path for eternity. Correct your first mistake, then all will be well. And no, I do not want to waste my time translating anything from any Turkish website on anything regarding Cyprus. It is bad enough reading all the Turkish online papers in English with their inaccurate information which lacks any journalistic integrity to their profession, let alone wanting to read even worse misinformation on Turkish websites. It's about time you had moved on from filling your head with such nonsense and used some common sense applications in determining what is what. Good luck.

let me know, because if it is true then I think it changes everyting.

Even if it was true in 1878, it has ZERO relevance today, so I don't know what it is that it will change everything. Don't forget, before the British took over, many GCs (Christians) had converted to being Muslims (TCs), therefore your 45% number is flawed. Actually, I thought the number was more like 30% than 45%, hence the reasons why the TCs were given 30%-70% proportion in the 1960 agreements, when it should have been 18% and also why the demand for the north to be around 30%. Even if the 1878 figures were true, the GCs would then say, in 1571 there were ZERO TCs, so let the clock start from there rather than your selective date of 1878. The clock should start on population numbers from 1960, because today, there are far less TCs in Cyprus in comparison to the GCs than there were in 1960.

[DTA]

Kikapu you dismiss a website and the information on it because it is written in turkish?

That is completely ridiculus, you can not be a tc, I think it better that we go back to not speaking.

[Viewpoint]

DTA Kikapu is anti anything Turkish including TCs, he dismisses articles just because its written by a Turkish author or even more comic because its in the Turkish language that only goes to reveal his under hand tactics and lack of credibility.

[Hermes]

Kikapu you dismiss a website and the information on it because it is written in turkish?

That is not what he said. He said such websites are full of misinformation and worthless propaganda. If you are in search of historical accuracy about Cyprus the last place you should be looking at is Turkish websites. There are plenty of other sources and historical accounts you could turn to. It's not difficult to find them.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu you dismiss a website and the information on it because it is written in turkish?

That is completely ridiculus, you can not be a tc, I think it better that we go back to not speaking.

You seem to lack the ability to fully comprehend the written English language, just as VP is. No wonder you two get along so well.

If that's your best argument for anyone in trying to set you on a correct path to understand facts rather than fiction relating to Cyprus, then the hell with you. It's your loss, by wondering aimlessly absorbing misinformation and propaganda from such websites.

Now run off to your mummy to comfort you, because I don't have the time to babysit you if you don't want to be treated like a grown up. Come back when you are ready for serious discussions and don't waste any one's time here before that time, specially mine.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu you dismiss a website and the information on it because it is written in turkish?

That is completely ridiculus, you can not be a tc, I think it better that we go back to not speaking.

You seem to lack the ability to fully comprehend the written English language, just as VP is. No wonder you two get along so well.

If that's your best argument for anyone in trying to set you on a correct path to understand facts rather than fiction relating to Cyprus, then the hell with you. It's your loss, by wondering aimlessly absorbing misinformation and propaganda from such websites.

Now run off to your mummy to comfort you, because I don't have the time to babysit you if you don't want to be treated like a grown up. Come back when you are ready for serious discussions and don't waste any one's time here before that time, specially mine.

Who the hell are you to put anyone right a racist GC arse licker.

Your quote,

"Reading any Turkish website on Cyprus is your first mistake and should be avoided at all costs, or else you will be lead down the wrong path for eternity".

[Nikitas]

"Turkey will have a new political presidential federal system within the next 5 years...kktc will be one of the semi-autonomous states (along with Turkish Kurdistan) in this new federation"

This is from Bir's post above. One wonders if Erdoghan is dreaming about dissolving the Turkish Republic and replace it with a "new entity". When he states this thought openly, then we might start thinking about dissolving the RoC. Till then the idea of dissolving the RoC will simply not fly. And for those that cannot see why let me explain it one more time. With no RoC, each community on the island becomes a mere appendage of its "motherland". If the federation does not work out, the next step becomes partition with unavoidable union with the respective motherlands since neither side will have legal statehood. That is why Gul was so keen on dissoliving GC sovereignty during the Annan talks.

If TCs cannot see the danger from the above, that is their choice. GCs, having enjoyed the close embrace of mainland nationalism back in 1974, and having seen the Turkish interpretation of the word "guarantee" since then, will NOT agree to dissolving the RoC. Without it they do not exist. This is what Papadopoulos had in mind when he had said in his pre Annan speech "I received a state, I will not pass on a community". This statement by the way raised extreme anger in Greece because Greeks, just like Turks, cannot encompass the idea of an independent, Greek or Turkish, state outside the control of what they consider "national center", ie Athens and Ankara.

Yes, BBF is the agreed goal, and no, BBF does NOT necessitate dissolving the RoC. Those that cannot see the danger of doing so are either naive or anti Cypriot.

As for approaching the end game, as Bir says, we have not even gotten to the end of the beginning yet. The end game will be either cataclysmic, with one of the two commmunities on the island being uprooted, or it will be an agreed withdrawal of all foreign influence, ie true Cypriot independence. Any kind of partition will simply set the stage for the end game and those that do not see it are fooling themselves.

VP thinks that I am gloating at the prospect of Turkey's economy taking a dive. False assumption. It is a cause for ALARM not celebration. A bad turn in the economy will mean more not less violations of air and sea space and more crappy ideas about Cyprus. From the figures posted by Kikapu above it should be clear that it is not all roses for the Turkish economy.

[Kikapu]

DTA Kikapu is anti anything Turkish including TCs, he dismisses articles just because its written by a Turkish author or even more comic because its in the Turkish language that only goes to reveal his under hand tactics and lack of credibility.

I don't want to waste too much time on you today.

Why don't you give us more information on the claim made by DTA from his Turkish website, that in 1878 there were 45% TCs in Cyprus.?

[DTA]

I am a little perplexed by the reaction to these comments. So I will offer my opinion, and it is only my opinion so not saying it is correct but here it goes:

Erdogan wants a solution to the cyprus problem so what he has done is this:

he has made the Tcs more willing to compromise by cutting our budget at a time when the the Turkish economy is doing well compared to a lot of other economies, he had no reason to do this at the moment if he didn't want a solution, because Turkeys economy is at the moment (and hopefully in the future as well) in the accendancy. So if partition was what he wanted he would have increased the the TRNC budget to make us less likely to compromise.

But this has led to the GCs being in a position of power in the negotiations.

So to balance this power he has made the statement that if an agreement is not reached by by 2012 then the he will try for the recognition of the TRNC, thus putting pressure on both sides to be willing to compromise.

He has also stated that the solution (reached in 2012) will follow a BBF with political equality, which is what we both want no? so what's the problem?

like I said that is my opinion and it could be wrong but that is may take on it.

Both sides should compromise or both will lose.

Erdogan wants a settlement based on the Annan Plan which he cannot have. That's what his whole hissy fit was all about. Didn't we "teach" you what the AP was all about a while back here ( cyprus33476.html ), as to why the GCs will not go for anything like the AP, which yourself agreed that the AP was "way over the top". In the
mean time, Turkey will lose economically by staying out of the EU, as well as the Turks, and more importantly, the TCs. Who ever said that only Turkey has a plan "B" when it comes to Cyprus. The RoC also have a plan "B". It's called "Erdogan".

What I found was totally not accepatble to the Annan plan was the limitation of births for the gcs in the now TRNC. That was something that I was not aware of, and to me was completely not fair or right.

without being rude to you, do you realise how patronising you sound+ "teach me"

For me I am not like you i am not willing to kiss and make up, if we are to unite, which i am not against then it will be within a bbf with political equality.

for us the the TCs, to want to unite with the Gcs , then a cypriot identity must be formulated and reinforced. This cyrpriot identity must not me be a Gc dominated cypriot identity but a TC and GC mix.

by the way I read a website (turkish) that stated that on the hand over to the british that the Tc community was roughly 45% of cyprus - but to be honest I cant read turkish to well (I was born in the uk- and we only talked English at home so I am self taught), if you want i will dig out the link for you to translate.... and tell me the authors as I dont know how accurate it is.

let me know, because if it is true then I think it changes everyting.

Hi DTA, nice to see that you are still around. above you say that at the hand over of Cyprus to Britain in 1878, the population proportions between the Muslims Turks and Christians, Greeks, Armenians, Maronites and Latins makes a diference. Can you please clarify , HOW? I am curious as to your argument. Since 1878 their have been periods of Muslim exodus from Cyprus. This was especialy obvious after the Lausanne Peace treaty in 1923.
'
ARTICLE 20.
Turkey hereby recognises the annexation of Cyprus proclaimed by the British Government on the sth November, 1914.

ARTICLE 2I .
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.
It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.'

I often remember Lozan/Lausanne being talked of in Cyprus as a victory. In my opinion it was far from the truth. But that is a different story, suffice to say, Lausanne is the treaty where Turkey 'forgot' / deserted the TCs. But the subject is 'Today'.
Regards

Hi Deniz, how are you gardas?

In my view it changes things because if true it shows that the british changed the demographics of the island in the recent past. They would have done this with anti Turk (well documented - from the blue book which they later apologised for- to sticking it to jonny Turk) policies and behaviours that was rampant at that time. And this was in a relatively short period of time - adds another level of understanding to the Muslims of Cyprus tag that we had for long time under British rule as well.

So what does this mean? Well it means the changing of demographics argument that the gcs use, is not valid as it was done to us in the recent past - and before the britsh rule (again recent history) we were virtually equal in numbers.

I haven't been on this website for a while because everytime take a look at some of threads it seems like it is 'let's all beat up on vp' it looks like there are not many tc's that contribute regularly on here anymore I wonder why?

[DTA]

Kikapu you dismiss a website and the information on it because it is written in turkish?

That is completely ridiculus, you can not be a tc, I think it better that we go back to not speaking.

You seem to lack the ability to fully comprehend the written English language, just as VP is. No wonder you two get along so well.

If that's your best argument for anyone in trying to set you on a correct path to understand facts rather than fiction relating to Cyprus, then the hell with you. It's your loss, by wondering aimlessly absorbing misinformation and propaganda from such websites.

Now run off to your mummy to comfort you, because I don't have the time to babysit you if you don't want to be treated like a grown up. Come back when you are ready for serious discussions and don't waste any one's time here before that time, specially mine.

Arrogant dickhead you would never speak to me like this face to face. Like I said it is better we don't talk, so let's just keep to that.