Cyprus-Forum.com

[DTA]

I am a little perplexed by the reaction to these comments. So I will offer my opinion, and it is only my opinion so not saying it is correct but here it goes:

Erdogan wants a solution to the cyprus problem so what he has done is this:

he has made the Tcs more willing to compromise by cutting our budget at a time when the the Turkish economy is doing well compared to a lot of other economies, he had no reason to do this at the moment if he didn't want a solution, because Turkeys economy is at the moment (and hopefully in the future as well) in the accendancy. So if partition was what he wanted he would have increased the the TRNC budget to make us less likely to compromise.

But this has led to the GCs being in a position of power in the negotiations.

So to balance this power he has made the statement that if an agreement is not reached by by 2012 then the he will try for the recognition of the TRNC, thus putting pressure on both sides to be willing to compromise.

He has also stated that the solution (reached in 2012) will follow a BBF with political equality, which is what we both want no? so what's the problem?

like I said that is my opinion and it could be wrong but that is may take on it.

Both sides should compromise or both will lose.

[Kikapu]

I am a little perplexed by the reaction to these comments. So I will offer my opinion, and it is only my opinion so not saying it is correct but here it goes:

Erdogan wants a solution to the cyprus problem so what he has done is this:

he has made the Tcs more willing to compromise by cutting our budget at a time when the the Turkish economy is doing well compared to a lot of other economies, he had no reason to do this at the moment if he didn't want a solution, because Turkeys economy is at the moment (and hopefully in the future as well) in the accendancy. So if partition was what he wanted he would have increased the the TRNC budget to make us less likely to compromise.

But this has led to the GCs being in a position of power in the negotiations.

So to balance this power he has made the statement that if an agreement is not reached by by 2012 then the he will try for the recognition of the TRNC, thus putting pressure on both sides to be willing to compromise.

He has also stated that the solution (reached in 2012) will follow a BBF with political equality, which is what we both want no? so what's the problem?

like I said that is my opinion and it could be wrong but that is may take on it.

Both sides should compromise or both will lose.

Erdogan wants a settlement based on the Annan Plan which he cannot have. That's what his whole hissy fit was all about. Didn't we "teach" you what the AP was all about a while back here ( cyprus33476.html ), as to why the GCs will not go for anything like the AP, which yourself agreed that the AP was "way over the top". In the mean time, Turkey will lose economically by staying out of the EU, as well as the Turks, and more importantly, the TCs. Who ever said that only Turkey has a plan "B" when it comes to Cyprus. The RoC also have a plan "B". It's called "Erdogan".

[DTA]

I am a little perplexed by the reaction to these comments. So I will offer my opinion, and it is only my opinion so not saying it is correct but here it goes:

Erdogan wants a solution to the cyprus problem so what he has done is this:

he has made the Tcs more willing to compromise by cutting our budget at a time when the the Turkish economy is doing well compared to a lot of other economies, he had no reason to do this at the moment if he didn't want a solution, because Turkeys economy is at the moment (and hopefully in the future as well) in the accendancy. So if partition was what he wanted he would have increased the the TRNC budget to make us less likely to compromise.

But this has led to the GCs being in a position of power in the negotiations.

So to balance this power he has made the statement that if an agreement is not reached by by 2012 then the he will try for the recognition of the TRNC, thus putting pressure on both sides to be willing to compromise.

He has also stated that the solution (reached in 2012) will follow a BBF with political equality, which is what we both want no? so what's the problem?

like I said that is my opinion and it could be wrong but that is may take on it.

Both sides should compromise or both will lose.

Erdogan wants a settlement based on the Annan Plan which he cannot have. That's what his whole hissy fit was all about. Didn't we "teach" you what the AP was all about a while back here ( cyprus33476.html ), as to why the GCs will not go for anything like the AP, which yourself agreed that the AP was "way over the top". In the mean time, Turkey will lose economically by staying out of the EU, as well as the Turks, and more importantly, the TCs. Who ever said that only Turkey has a plan "B" when it comes to Cyprus. The RoC also have a plan "B". It's called "Erdogan".

What I found was totally not accepatble to the Annan plan was the limitation of births for the gcs in the now TRNC. That was something that I was not aware of, and to me was completely not fair or right.

without being rude to you, do you realise how patronising you sound+ "teach me"

For me I am not like you i am not willing to kiss and make up, if we are to unite, which i am not against then it will be within a bbf with political equality.

for us the the TCs, to want to unite with the Gcs , then a cypriot identity must be formulated and reinforced. This cyrpriot identity must not me be a Gc dominated cypriot identity but a TC and GC mix.

by the way I read a website (turkish) that stated that on the hand over to the british that the Tc community was roughly 45% of cyprus - but to be honest I cant read turkish to well (I was born in the uk- and we only talked English at home so I am self taught), if you want i will dig out the link for you to translate.... and tell me the authors as I dont know how accurate it is.

let me know, because if it is true then I think it changes everyting.

[Hermes]

Erdogan wants a settlement based on the Annan Plan which he cannot have. That's what his whole hissy fit was all about.

Erdogan's outburst reveals he's in a state of denial about what's happened since 2004. He bizarrely refuses to acknowledge that Cyprus even exists and acts with incomprehension that the Republic is a full-fledged member of the EU that will by right assume the EU Presidency. Turkey's deluded version of history has come face to face with a different reality and Erdogan responds by literally going mad.

Time has moved on since 2004. But Turkey clearly hasn't. Turkey's whole strategy is a stupid self-defeating attempt to revive the corpse of the Annan Plan. Erdogan is so desperate he is even repudiating aspects of the Annan Plan that Turkey agreed to because he thinks this would scare the G/Cs in - wait for it - regretting they never voted in favour of the Annan Plan!

It's such a desperate and useless strategy you have to wonder who is actually telling him this will work. It just creates the impression of a Turkish leadership so cut off from the culture and institutions of the EU and so alien from the reality of a world outside their own belligerent propaganda, that you have to wonder if the Turkish mindset has made any progress under the AKP.

[Viewpoint]

Hello Erdogan did actually stated "they" can forget the concessions of the AP, so dont you think that indicates AP style solution is now a non starter this does not only mean it can be better for GCs but in this case it will be worse, no Guzelyurt, no Karpaz, no Maras, no departure of army.

[B25]

Hello Erdogan did actually stated "they" can forget the concessions of the AP, so dont you think that indicates AP style solution is now a non starter this does not only mean it can be better for GCs but in this case it will be worse, no Guzelyurt, no Karpaz, no Maras, no departure of army.

We were never going to get those things anyway, whether we agreed to the AP or not. Turkey cannot be trusted to honour any agreement and there are examples of this recently.

DTA - I am surprised at your Erdogan supporting attitude. I took you as one of the more 'sensible' TCs, but seems to me you are just as bad a VP. Go ahead, make excuses for your motherland, we'll see who needs who in the very near future. Your brothers are being beaten black and blue as we speak, they are being eroded and down troded by Turkey, yet you still make excuses for her. Only a neo partitionist fascist would do that. Way to go mate.

[Viewpoint]

Hello Erdogan did actually stated "they" can forget the concessions of the AP, so dont you think that indicates AP style solution is now a non starter this does not only mean it can be better for GCs but in this case it will be worse, no Guzelyurt, no Karpaz, no Maras, no departure of army.

We were never going to get those things anyway, whether we agreed to the AP or not. Turkey cannot be trusted to honour any agreement and there are examples of this recently.

DTA - I am surprised at your Erdogan supporting attitude. I took you as one of the more 'sensible' TCs, but seems to me you are just as bad a VP. Go ahead, make excuses for your motherland, we'll see who needs who in the very near future. Your brothers are being beaten black and blue as we speak, they are being eroded and down troded by Turkey, yet you still make excuses for her. Only a neo partitionist fascist would do that. Way to go mate.

Better them than you, when will you get this into you thick skulls, the more you dig your heels in the better the Turkish option looks.

[denizaksulu]

I am a little perplexed by the reaction to these comments. So I will offer my opinion, and it is only my opinion so not saying it is correct but here it goes:

Erdogan wants a solution to the cyprus problem so what he has done is this:

he has made the Tcs more willing to compromise by cutting our budget at a time when the the Turkish economy is doing well compared to a lot of other economies, he had no reason to do this at the moment if he didn't want a solution, because Turkeys economy is at the moment (and hopefully in the future as well) in the accendancy. So if partition was what he wanted he would have increased the the TRNC budget to make us less likely to compromise.

But this has led to the GCs being in a position of power in the negotiations.

So to balance this power he has made the statement that if an agreement is not reached by by 2012 then the he will try for the recognition of the TRNC, thus putting pressure on both sides to be willing to compromise.

He has also stated that the solution (reached in 2012) will follow a BBF with political equality, which is what we both want no? so what's the problem?

like I said that is my opinion and it could be wrong but that is may take on it.

Both sides should compromise or both will lose.

Erdogan wants a settlement based on the Annan Plan which he cannot have. That's what his whole hissy fit was all about. Didn't we "teach" you what the AP was all about a while back here ( cyprus33476.html ), as to why the GCs will not go for anything like the AP, which yourself agreed that the AP was "way over the top". In the
mean time, Turkey will lose economically by staying out of the EU, as well as the Turks, and more importantly, the TCs. Who ever said that only Turkey has a plan "B" when it comes to Cyprus. The RoC also have a plan "B". It's called "Erdogan".

What I found was totally not accepatble to the Annan plan was the limitation of births for the gcs in the now TRNC. That was something that I was not aware of, and to me was completely not fair or right.

without being rude to you, do you realise how patronising you sound+ "teach me"

For me I am not like you i am not willing to kiss and make up, if we are to unite, which i am not against then it will be within a bbf with political equality.

for us the the TCs, to want to unite with the Gcs , then a cypriot identity must be formulated and reinforced. This cyrpriot identity must not me be a Gc dominated cypriot identity but a TC and GC mix.

by the way I read a website (turkish) that stated that on the hand over to the british that the Tc community was roughly 45% of cyprus - but to be honest I cant read turkish to well (I was born in the uk- and we only talked English at home so I am self taught), if you want i will dig out the link for you to translate.... and tell me the authors as I dont know how accurate it is.

let me know, because if it is true then I think it changes everyting.

Hi DTA, nice to see that you are still around. above you say that at the hand over of Cyprus to Britain in 1878, the population proportions between the Muslims Turks and Christians, Greeks, Armenians, Maronites and Latins makes a diference. Can you please clarify , HOW? I am curious as to your argument. Since 1878 their have been periods of Muslim exodus from Cyprus. This was especialy obvious after the Lausanne Peace treaty in 1923.
'
ARTICLE 20.
Turkey hereby recognises the annexation of Cyprus proclaimed by the British Government on the sth November, 1914.

ARTICLE 2I .
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.
It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.'

I often remember Lozan/Lausanne being talked of in Cyprus as a victory. In my opinion it was far from the truth. But that is a different story, suffice to say, Lausanne is the treaty where Turkey 'forgot' / deserted the TCs. But the subject is 'Today'.
Regards

[Kikapu]

Hello Erdogan did actually stated "they" can forget the concessions of the AP, so dont you think that indicates AP style solution is now a non starter this does not only mean it can be better for GCs but in this case it will be worse, no Guzelyurt, no Karpaz, no Maras, no departure of army.

Hello, you obviously do not understand how "reverse psychology" works.

The only problem is, it is so elementary what Erdogan is trying to do, it borders on naivety, ignorance, wishful thinking to plain embarrassment what a leader of a so called "regional power", to try and attempt cheap tricks on the GCs which will not work, at the risk of him looking like a thug instead of a leader to bring a settlement to Cyprus that would benefit the island, it's people and Turkey.

Erdogan wants to give the illusion that the GCs made a mistake by saying "OXI" to the AP in 2004, and now, he is going to punish them by taking away what was meant to be a compromise from the north, in the hopes that the GCs will come and beg him to give them back the compromises in exchange for their "YES" vote in the next referendum. But we already know, that had the AP passed, the above so called compromises was just an illusion itself and that the plan would have cemented Turkey's presence on the island for good, and in time, the same would have happened to the GCs in Cyprus to what happened to the Greeks in Turkey. Erdogan is rolling his very "last hope dice", in the hopes that he can trick the GCs by acting tough knowing full well that he has no control over the GCs decision making on the next referendum, should there be one.

My guess is, Ban Ki-moon finally told Eroglu in Geneva recently that his foot dragging on properties and territory adjustments and demands for a settlement outside the UN resolutions was not going to work and that it was time for him to "shit or get off the pot". I have told you that Denktash regrets agreeing to BBF back in the 70's on two folds. One is, that BBF today under EU principles locks out any future partition plans by the TCs (Turkey) and two, it took away what the TCs had in the 1960 agreements. That's why the GCs can insist on having a BBF based on the EU Principles and there's nothing you can do about it, specially now that the RoC s in the EU. It only leaves Erdogan to make a bunch of idle threats in the hopes of bringing the GCs to a "YES" vote on his demands that the next referendum to be based on AP again, which was anti Democracy, Human Rights violations, International Law violations and EU Principles violations or try and make the GCs to walk away from the talks. He will not succeed in either. If it wasn't bad enough for a leader of a so called "regional power" to bring himself down to illegally entering another country like a common criminal, what respect is there for Erdogan from the International community, for him to be taken seriously in what he says or wants for conditions on Cyprus settlement. Have you noticed Bagis hasn't said a word after Erdogan's temper tantrum. He managed to do some damage control after Davutoglu's screw up comments over Turkey freezing relationships with the EU, should the RoC take over the EU Presidency, and a day or so later, Erdogan made it even worse with his own screw ups. If I were Bagis, I would resign as the EU membership minister for Turkey. It is obvious he has no say so as a minister, because Davutoglu and Erdogan are doing more damage than good.

[Kikapu]

Hello Erdogan did actually stated "they" can forget the concessions of the AP, so dont you think that indicates AP style solution is now a non starter this does not only mean it can be better for GCs but in this case it will be worse, no Guzelyurt, no Karpaz, no Maras, no departure of army.

We were never going to get those things anyway, whether we agreed to the AP or not. Turkey cannot be trusted to honour any agreement and there are examples of this recently.

DTA - I am surprised at your Erdogan supporting attitude. I took you as one of the more 'sensible' TCs, but seems to me you are just as bad a VP. Go ahead, make excuses for your motherland, we'll see who needs who in the very near future. Your brothers are being beaten black and blue as we speak, they are being eroded and down troded by Turkey, yet you still make excuses for her. Only a neo partitionist fascist would do that. Way to go mate.

Better them than you, when will you get this into you thick skulls, the more you dig your heels in the better the Turkish option looks.

The GCs are offering you equal citizenship with equal rights with a state where you will be the majority living in a full democracy and prosperity, but you would rather get beaten up by the Turks instead..

Next the Turks will making babies with your women behind your backs if you haven't managed to make 4 babies yourselves. Hey, it's all for the good of your so called "motherland", right.