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Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:36 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:A timetable is vital to get GCs to move forward other wise they will negotiate forever.


Time tables are great if all the parties are negotiating in good faith.

Were all the parties negotiating in good faith ?

What was preventing the north to start discussing the property and territory issues for the last 2+ years if you wanted to save time ?


Well its on the table now...is that good faith enough? What have to GCs put forward in good faith?
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby Kikapu » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:58 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:A timetable is vital to get GCs to move forward other wise they will negotiate forever.


Time tables are great if all the parties are negotiating in good faith.

Were all the parties negotiating in good faith ?

What was preventing the north to start discussing the property and territory issues for the last 2+ years if you wanted to save time ?


Well its on the table now...is that good faith enough? What have to GCs put forward in good faith?


Only time will tell if it's a "good faith" or not.

So far, as far as I can gather, most of the discussions for the last 2+ years has been on things that would benefit the TCs mostly, like Power Sharing, Governance, EU matters and so on, but property and territory which what would benefit the GCs most, was off the table. What did the north think, that there could be a settlement even if property and territory was not on the table ?
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:26 pm

Departure of TA and settlers?
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby antifon » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:51 pm

Given the hopeless situation in occupied Cyprus, with very brave Cypriots but too few and too scared, perhaps today's tragedy is a blessing in disguise. Christofias should resign and elections held. This will save all of us plenty of what otherwise would be wasted time and meaningless deliberations. The center right will for sure win the elections and force Turkey's move by demanding from the UN to tackle Cyprus' Turkish issue as what it really is: a problem of illegal invasion, occupation, ethnic cleansing and cultural destruction. The political charade must end. The hypocrisy unveiled. The "battle" transplanted in Turkey itself.

Our amateurish behavior one day just has to stop. In dealing with fellow tCypriots as well, regardless whether we agree with them or not. My sincere condolences to all fellow Cypriots.
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby jahitty » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:26 am

antifon wrote:Given the hopeless situation in occupied Cyprus, with very brave Cypriots but too few and too scared, perhaps today's tragedy is a blessing in disguise. Christofias should resign and elections held. This will save all of us plenty of what otherwise would be wasted time and meaningless deliberations. The center right will for sure win the elections and force Turkey's move by demanding from the UN to tackle Cyprus' Turkish issue as what it really is: a problem of illegal invasion, occupation, ethnic cleansing and cultural destruction. The political charade must end. The hypocrisy unveiled. The "battle" transplanted in Turkey itself.


hasnt Pres x already been saying what it really is?
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby antifon » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:57 am

Indeed he has.

However, at some point either he or his successor must decide to remind the UN as well which seems to have forgotten, by walking away from what are beyond doubt meaningless discussions whose aim is simply to provide an alibi for the Turkish regime.

Personally, I am not much for left or right. In my opinion, whether the President is Christofias or Anastasiades makes very little difference. They both genuinely want Cyprus for the Cypriots and they both genuinely want Turkey to mind her own business. My preference has always been for more laissez-faire in economic matters though. I will support Christofias but wouldn't put up a fight on his behalf.
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby Canadiancy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:05 pm

The Formula

Enough about blame! Those who suggest that the Cypriot Government does not show any enthusiasm to move forward for a solution to the Cyprus situation do not understand what is at stake.

The Cypriots should be the masters of their own destiny. The point to be addressed is not the 'need for a solution' but rather the need for a lasting solution. It happened in the past when this small newly independent country was forced by its former colonial master to compromise its sovereign rights. It perpetuated into an internal discord that saw Greek and Turkish Cypriots who had lived side by side in peace for hundreds of years engaged in acts of hostility toward each other.

It should not happen again. Engaging in talks and searching for a viable solution is an encouraging sign by itself. But neither the UN nor any other body can force a solution that may be short lived. Just because others want a 'solution', that is just not the way to handle international disputes and is analogous to forcing an expectant mother into a premature labour.

The 'asphyxiating time' may fit those who are talking from a position of having nothing to lose. But for the Cypriots themselves who would have to deal through the intricacies of political and economic relations on a daily basis is a very serious matter. The need for a just and viable solution is not based on 'asphyxiation' but rather on realistic proposals that would safeguard fundamental civil rights for everyone.

Those who claim to be dispassionate observers should demonstrate that by example. Instead of being so critical as to claim that they can 'see' what is right for Cyprus whereas others do not, they can assist by abstaining from using fear tactics and suggesting coercive measures.

Are you indoctrinated if you care about the future of your children and grandchildren in this land that your forefathers had cultivated with blood and sweat? Are you indoctrinated if you are concerned and dismayed when your cultural treasures are being stolen and sold in the black market? Are you indoctrinated if you want to safeguard fundamental civil rights and liberties? Are you indoctrinated if you say no to bullying and arm twisting? Are you indoctrinated if you want to avoid the mistakes of the past?

Someone has suggested that "what is needed is an 'asphyxiating' time frame or "some powerful intervention combined with real arm twisting by outside parties." I am not surprised that this arrogance is allowed to exist as I am not surprised that the same arrogance is what has caused civil discord in the Arab World. Those who assume that others have the power to impose their will on the Cypriot people should think long and hard as history has shown that these tactics do not work.

Here is a simple formula for a good start:
1. Turkey agrees to withdraw all its army from Cyprus;
2. Cyprus supports Turkey on joining the European Union;
3. Turkey and Cyprus establish free movement of goods and peoples and Turkey opens its ports and airports to Cyprus and other European Union members;
4. The so called treaty of guarantee is abolished because is anachronistic and contradicts the sovereignty of nations; neither Greece nor Turkey should have a say in the affairs of Cyprus;
5. All check points separating the two sides are removed, opening the free movement of peoples and goods throughout the island;
6. A civilian task force is established to formulate the new constitution based on fundamental civil rights and liberties;
7. Timelines are established for a gradual integration of the two economies between the north and the south;
8. Establish a system of restitution and compensation based on established guidelines and neutral valuations;
9. Arbitrators are hired to settle disputes involving land claims and expropriation;
10. All citizens to have the freedom of movement and settlement everywhere on the island;
11. A strong federal system is establish to oversee the most important aspects of governance such as immigration, the military, foreign affairs, monetary and fiscal policy, the treasury, etc.;
12. Three official languages are established: Greek, Turkish and English;
13. All justice institutions, including courts are integrated to handle disputes; a federal court to handle federal issues and provincial courts to handle local (provincial issues);
14. A law reform commission is establish to oversee the implementation of legal reforms;
15. A common currency is implemented;
16. All ports and airports are opened under federal jurisdiction;
17. A free trade agreement is signed between Cyprus and Turkey to precede Turkey`s joining the European Union;
18. Turkey provides substantial financial assistance and compensation to help integrate the two economies of the island so that Cyprus is not overburdened with the initial costs of implementing the chances that would be taking place.
http://www.cyprussolution.info/
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby B25 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:02 pm

Welcome to the CF Canadiancy, I agree with what you have said, nice put, but your formula fails to mention the total return of the settlers.

There is no way we are going to give citizenship to 500,000 (or whatever number) gypsies.

Please review.
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby Canadiancy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:42 pm

One more important issue: All settlers Turkey brought to the island illegally following the invasion (for the purpose of changing the demographics of the island) to be compensated by Turkey and returned back to Turkey at Turkey's expense, subject to limited exceptions on humanitarian grounds and subject to those cases the new federal government deems suitable for immigration status on other grounds.
http://www.cyprussolution.info/
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Re: Cyprus needs an asphyxiating time frame!

Postby Sotos » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:57 pm

3. Turkey and Cyprus establish free movement of goods and peoples and Turkey opens its ports and airports to Cyprus and other European Union members;


Welcome Canadiancy! Good suggestions but I have a bit objection on no. 3. I don't thing this is even possible because of EU laws. Even for Russians we had to implement visas because of EU.
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