Cyprus-Forum.com

[ZoC]

anti no one here takes you seriously or responds to your posts.

vp no one here takes you seriously. they respond to your posts like they respond to a mosquito; to swat the annoying, poisonous little blood sucker.

[jahitty]

Look as a TC whenever I tell the majority that as a minority we should not be asking for 50% as its not in line with democratic and EU values im just told to fuck off and shut up. Why? mainly becuase of fear and the lack of conviction they have regarding GC domination and of course propoganda, but what i must say is that the equality thinking can be marginilsed if the GC community were quite frankly more convincing and had a serious public debate about what it means to live side by side with TC's. I dont remember any significant rhetoric coming from any GC leaders apart from Pres X. Or am I just exaggerating? Look many TC's agree that we do lack genuine quality leaders that can stand up to Turkey without bending over instantly... the reason the so called 'left wing marginal parties are marginilized is precisely becuase they use the Kurdish example' and criticize Turkish policies, many TC's agree but, to be honest they are just shit scared of Turkey.

[bill cobbett]

Look as a TC whenever I tell the majority that as a minority we should not be asking for 50% as its not in line with democratic and EU values im just told to fuck off and shut up. Why? mainly becuase of fear and the lack of conviction they have regarding GC domination and of course propoganda, but what i must say is that the equality thinking can be marginilsed if the GC community were quite frankly more convincing and had a serious public debate about what it means to live side by side with TC's. I dont remember any significant rhetoric coming from any GC leaders apart from Pres X. Or am I just exaggerating? Look many TC's agree that we do lack genuine quality leaders that can stand up to Turkey without bending over instantly... the reason the so called 'left wing marginal parties are marginilized is precisely becuase they use the Kurdish example' and criticize Turkish policies, many TC's agree but, to be honest they are just shit scared of Turkey.

Your honesty and frank speaking are appreciated Jahitty, there's something for all CYs to consider in your posts in this thread, if may say so.

[jahitty]

And another thing... there are 15 millions kurds in Turkey who are pretty well organized and supported throughout the world, there are maybe no more than 50,000 TC;s in the TRNC, this creates a very different mindset and phycology when forming and sustaining dissent. The contemporary geography of Cyprus doesnt exactly lend itself well to an armed resistance either! Post 74 after all the catastrophic events TC's and GC's were in shock, the perfect time to brainwash, it takes time to re-educate, i feel that the 'Left or i should say alternative voices' have only been organizing and speaking more freely post denktash, of course pre 74 there were amazing examples of alternative voices both GC/TC working together like Dervis Ali Kavazoglu and Kostas Misiaoulisleaders . Quite frankly we can discuss possible solutions till kingdom come, what is lacking are normal or maybe extraordinary cypriots both TC/GC like Ali and Kostas, both GC and TC need better leaders, ones who with bigger, much bigger balls!

[antifon]

but what i must say is that the equality thinking can be marginilsed if the GC community were quite frankly more convincing and had a serious public debate about what it means to live side by side with TC's. I dont remember any significant rhetoric coming from any GC leaders apart from Pres X.

Three notes:
1] President X represents over 30% of population, a party well known for its block mentality.
2] A lot more people from other parties are actively involved in the debate, though I agree it is not as serious as it should be.
3] What should this debate entail in your opinion to catch tCypriot attention? How can gCypriots be more convincing?

i feel that the 'Left or i should say alternative voices

I sincerely hope it is not just the left. The Cyprus issue is not a more governemnt/less government type of issue. And I know for a fact that liberal thinkers do not just find themselves in parties of the left.

both GC and TC need better leaders, ones who with bigger, much bigger balls!

The truth is gCypriots have balls. They are, as I recall, the only country in the western world with a "communist" at the helm. For a period, I was personally afraid he was going to recommend the restablishment of the Warsaw Pact! The only reason he is in control is because Cypriot collective wisdom judged Christofias to be the only person who could bring about a solution or failing that, justify moving away altogether from the pretense of negotiations. How much more ballsy do you expect gCypriots to get?

that the equality thinking can be marginilsed if the GC community were quite frankly more convincing

If the tCypriot community somehow hinted that they would be willing to discuss this aspect, this alone would ignite a very healthy public debate.

what is lacking are normal or maybe extraordinary cypriots both TC/GC like Ali and Kostas

In the era of social media, we do not need leaders to effect change. Leaders will follow. Let Ali step forth and the Kostas's will flood the place!

[jahitty]

GC's need to debate the case for a 'pan Cyprian identity' that sees TC's as vital part of Cypriot culture, i dont see many GC's turn up to bi-communual events for example....although im not naive enough to assume that these events are a solution, they are not.GC' activists need to make the debate more serious, i dont have the answers to that.

It seems to me the public debate hasnt dealt with the influence of the Church and other conservative forces, in my opinion this is what scares the TC's the most. That requires balls. If TC's saw a movement of some sort dealing with the conservatism of the church I reckon it would make a huge difference, TC's are resolutely secular, its one of the defining characteristics of TC's that distinguishes them from mainland Turks. In my humble opinion, within this framwork of a ' tamed church orthodoxy' the issue of political equality can be debated. Im not naive to assume that the Church and conservative forces in the ROC are easy to tame, they are not, but beleive me when I say that even the most progressive TC's are still really scared of this 'church' mentality, and thats from even young TC's who havent been brainwashed by the regime.

I agree in the age of Social networking we can bypass leaders, but havnt we yet?

[antifon]

[the] geography of Cyprus doesnt exactly lend itself well to an armed resistance either!

I sincerely hope no one is proposing this as a way out of the impasse. I have no doubt Turkey would welcome such grand idiocy on our part. The only areas Cypriots are superior to Turks are [a] legality [b] collective intelligence.

Let's "force" Turks to accept a comparison between the rights and responsibilities of tCypriots in Cyprus and those of Kurds in Turkey. Now, such a public discussion will produce wonders! For all well meaning Turks, Kurds and Cypriots. The vast majority of us.

Let's take the debate in Turkey and western capitals. Let's make Turkey explain herself! Let's expose her gigantic hypocrisy.


Just saw your latest message ... my answer to you is that the church is a 2.000 year tradition for Cypriots. The first nation to be converted to Christianity. We have beautiful traditions which make us who we are. We are proud of them and not ready to give our Christian identity up. It defines us. It defines CYPRUS. You cannot expect gCypriots to be apologetic for being Christians.

The gCypriot perspective is that tCypriots are not more secular than gCypriots. I would honestly seek the role of Turkish propaganda in making the gCypriot church look much worse than in reality. Starting with the role of Makarios. Do we have any doubt of the immense power of Turkish propaganda? Please find a way to deal with your exaggerated fears. I remind you that in the sensitive years of 61 & 62 mosques were bombed by TMT and the blame put on gCypriots.

[jahitty]

What I meant was that as a dissident Kurd when you have millions of other Kurds behind you, it gives you strength, Dissenting TC's dont, so they have to be supported in as many peaceful ways as possible, including support from GC's, which seems to be lacking. I agree with your Kurdish thesis and yes this debate hasnt got off the ground in the TC community except within various smaller left wing parties such as YKP.

[antifon]

i dont see many GC's turn up to bi-communual events for example

gCypriots will turn out en mass if tCypriots make their understanding known that "equality" as per 1960 was indeed the seed of the troubles that ensued. Else, bi-communal events are seen as playing along the silly game of Turkey whose objective is today exactly what the fliers said in the 50s:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/07/oh- ... youth.html

[antifon]

What I meant was that as a dissident Kurd when you have millions of other Kurds behind you, it gives you strength, Dissenting TC's dont, so they have to be supported in as many peaceful ways as possible, including support from GC's, which seems to be lacking. I agree with your Kurdish thesis and yes this debate hasnt got off the ground in the TC community except within various smaller left wing parties such as YKP.

Again, make your collective will known, if such will exists, that you are willing to discuss an improved 1960 [inevitably less rights for tCypriots at the community level] and things/feelings/involvement will change drastically on the part of gCypriots. That is my wholehearted belief. Plus you would be offering Christofias the greatest gift in his political career. If anyone deserves it, he is the one.