Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

We have a similar saying in Turkish but you seem to forget that we do not trust each other and do not want to jump into a dangerous situation without any say in our own future.

So do you suggest that the Kypreos takes all the risks and you nothing?

never you to should have guarantees and safeguards.

Fine
I want a guarantee that the 50K settlers who will stay won't be having 10 children each so they don't become 1/2 a million in 20 years.
I want a guarantee that you will house all the settlers in new homes with your own money within 2 years after a solution
I want a guarantee that my standard of living and % growth won't diminish after a solution.
I want Turkey out from the very first day to feel safe
I want 82% of land just to be safe anything goes wrong.
I want a guarantee that you will be able to pay all those public servants you have now (almost half the Kibrislis), and all those of you who will be in the Federal Government.
I want a guarantee that the Kypreos returning will be educated in their own language at their own schools all costs paid by the Fed state.
I want a quarantee for absolute free bussiness and enterprise everywhere in Cyprus

I could fill up a list of pages upon pages of guarantees and safeguards I want.
How would you satisfy me?

OK to all the above just the 82% the best is 75% 25% Now how about my guarantees and safeguards?

25% is more than what you deserve, and it includes a risk for me. You did not explain me how i will be guaranteed on each one.Show me the evidence. For example you can show me a law that every settler who gets a 4th, or 5th , or 6th child, that child will be given to ZAn to eat it.
Well go on show me how the laws will be. Show me the money that are there to house the settlers who will stay.

[Viewpoint]

The point is I accepted your demands without blinking an eyelid and am willing to bring about the laws that will make you feel safe but you deny me these rights why? are you going to misuse or manipulate the situation to your advantage thats why you do not want me to have guarantees or safeguards because thats how we read your despot intransigence.

[bill cobbett]

The point is I accepted your demands without blinking an eyelid and am willing to bring about the laws that will make you feel safe but you deny me these rights why? are you going to misuse or manipulate the situation to your advantage thats why you do not want me to have guarantees or safeguards because thats how we read your despot intransigence.

When you use the word "rights" VP , what rights are you referring to? Are you referring to rights as per the articles of the ECHR, or Minority Rights or some other rights....?

[Kikapu]

Kiks my conclusion with VP is whatever we say VP will glide again asking for something that only partition will guarantee it.
It's a waste of time...

The ONLY thing a partition will guarantee for the TCs is, that there will not be many TCs left in the north and the whole place will be run by the Turks, for the Turks and Turkey, and any remaining TCs there will be treated as an outcast. I don't care how much VP says that is preferable than to agreeing on a solution in a BBF based on EU Principles, that even he must feel fears deep down the ultimate outcome for the TCs in the north in the unlikely event of a partition. How can any true TC not be concerned, regardless how close they may feel towards Turkey at the moment.?

[Kikapu]

Kikapu BBF is the only thing on the table right now but without agreement something will follow these talks which will not go on forever. BBF with political equality even with EU principles which we have shown can be adjusted if all sides agree is such a wide spectrum and includes so many loopholes, its those loopholes and pitfalls we are trying to protect ourselves from. When will you realize we are not bad people only people who do not trust due to past experiences. We do not get a second chance and if we leave the door wide open to manipulation and domination the GCs will not walk though it they will sprint.

Don't count on the UN to change BBF for you just because there is no settlement soon in order to give you something else. Only recently you were rightfully saying, that the GCs could not walk away from BBF without the TCs agreement. Well, that is also true for you, that the TCs cannot walk away from BBF without the GCs agreement also, and as far as I can see, the GCs have no intentions in walking away from BBF no matter, even if the next 10 settlements talks fail, let alone just the next one. The UN cannot arbitrarily chance the rules on BBF agreements made by both sides and impose another plan on their own without the agreements by the TCs and GCs. The way I see it, you are stuck with BBF as agreed by all parties in the past, only it has gotten more streamlined as to how it can be implemented with the addition of EU Principles, now that Cyprus is in the EU since 2004. Short of having an agreed partition, which would have it's own catastrophic consequences for the TCs in the long run, BBF as what's on the table now, is the best possible outcome for the TCs by being a majority in one of the states with a political voice in the government, and for the GCs to have the feeling of keeping territory of Cyprus intact and not losing any part of Cyprus to Turkey. For me, this is a win-win outcome to all Cypriots.

[Pyrpolizer]

The point is I accepted your demands without blinking an eyelid and am willing to bring about the laws that will make you feel safe but you deny me these rights why? are you going to misuse or manipulate the situation to your advantage thats why you do not want me to have guarantees or safeguards because thats how we read your despot intransigence.

The point is you accepted all the NONSENSE I wrote. To take an example you accepted the super racist/Hitler type Nazi demand to have the 4th child onwards of each settler killed just to satisfy my fears and my guarantees. No I wouldn't like to live in such a country. I would prefer to take the risk instead.

And you have to put your self in Kypreos shoes. What will the Kypreos earn from a solution other that some non worthy land? Nothing else other than a huge risk of a)getting bankrupt b) have hostile people opposing any progress willingly or just out of envy c) Having thousands of trashy uneducated settlers dealing with all sorts of crime plus a million other problems. The kibrislis on the other hand have nothing to lose and everything to gain. First of all they will get rid of Turkey, secondly they will get free entrance to the EU, thirdly they will enter a healthy economy...

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu BBF is the only thing on the table right now but without agreement something will follow these talks which will not go on forever. BBF with political equality even with EU principles which we have shown can be adjusted if all sides agree is such a wide spectrum and includes so many loopholes, its those loopholes and pitfalls we are trying to protect ourselves from. When will you realize we are not bad people only people who do not trust due to past experiences. We do not get a second chance and if we leave the door wide open to manipulation and domination the GCs will not walk though it they will sprint.

Don't count on the UN to change BBF for you just because there is no settlement soon in order to give you something else. Only recently you were rightfully saying, that the GCs could not walk away from BBF without the TCs agreement. Well, that is also true for you, that the TCs cannot walk away from BBF without the GCs agreement also, and as far as I can see, the GCs have no intentions in walking away from BBF no matter, even if the next 10 settlements talks fail, let alone just the next one. The UN cannot arbitrarily chance the rules on BBF agreements made by both sides and impose another plan on their own without the agreements by the TCs and GCs. The way I see it, you are stuck with BBF as agreed by all parties in the past, only it has gotten more streamlined as to how it can be implemented with the addition of EU Principles, now that Cyprus is in the EU since 2004. Short of having an agreed partition, which would have it's own catastrophic consequences for the TCs in the long run, BBF as what's on the table now, is the best possible outcome for the TCs by being a majority in one of the states with a political voice in the government, and for the GCs to have the feeling of keeping territory of Cyprus intact and not losing any part of Cyprus to Turkey. For me, this is a win-win outcome to all Cypriots.

you stated the UN are bound to mediate forever and we can reject every deal put forward...I think many would disagree with you especially the UN. I agree that BBF with political equality of the two states is on offer but failure to agree time after time will only prove our differences are irreconcilable and that an alternative needs to be found this can take many shapes one of which is agree division for land.

The EU has brought nothing to the table, in fact the dream that it would solve all the GC problems by crushing Turkey soon evaporated and after 7 years and no advancements i think the GCs now have the message that without the two sides agreement nothing will materialize.

As an average TC who resides in the TRNC I have absolutely no expectations of finding a solution, both sides do not have the capacity desire or will to agree a solution let alone stick by it. We are kidding ourselves thinking that both sides want to unite and live together, to much water has passed under the bridge and the majority of people dont give a fig, all they think about is which restaurants to eat at, where to go at the weekend and where to go on holiday.

[Viewpoint]

The point is I accepted your demands without blinking an eyelid and am willing to bring about the laws that will make you feel safe but you deny me these rights why? are you going to misuse or manipulate the situation to your advantage thats why you do not want me to have guarantees or safeguards because thats how we read your despot intransigence.

The point is you accepted all the NONSENSE I wrote. To take an example you accepted the super racist/Hitler type Nazi demand to have the 4th child onwards of each settler killed just to satisfy my fears and my guarantees. No I wouldn't like to live in such a country. I would prefer to take the risk instead.

And you have to put your self in Kypreos shoes. What will the Kypreos earn from a solution other that some non worthy land? Nothing else other than a huge risk of a)getting bankrupt b) have hostile people opposing any progress willingly or just out of envy c) Having thousands of trashy uneducated settlers dealing with all sorts of crime plus a million other problems. The kibrislis on the other hand have nothing to lose and everything to gain. First of all they will get rid of Turkey, secondly they will get free entrance to the EU, thirdly they will enter a healthy economy...

This is the difference between a GCs and a TCs I am willing to address and solve your concerns but you flatly refuse mine, please try harder to understand why we ask for what we do.

As to your second paragraph can you remind us all why the hell do you want a solution? sounds like agreed partition would be better for you.

[Pyrpolizer]

The point is I accepted your demands without blinking an eyelid and am willing to bring about the laws that will make you feel safe but you deny me these rights why? are you going to misuse or manipulate the situation to your advantage thats why you do not want me to have guarantees or safeguards because thats how we read your despot intransigence.

The point is you accepted all the NONSENSE I wrote. To take an example you accepted the super racist/Hitler type Nazi demand to have the 4th child onwards of each settler killed just to satisfy my fears and my guarantees. No I wouldn't like to live in such a country. I would prefer to take the risk instead.

And you have to put your self in Kypreos shoes. What will the Kypreos earn from a solution other that some non worthy land? Nothing else other than a huge risk of a)getting bankrupt b) have hostile people opposing any progress willingly or just out of envy c) Having thousands of trashy uneducated settlers dealing with all sorts of crime plus a million other problems. The kibrislis on the other hand have nothing to lose and everything to gain. First of all they will get rid of Turkey, secondly they will get free entrance to the EU, thirdly they will enter a healthy economy...

This is the difference between a GCs and a TCs I am willing to address and solve your concerns but you flatly refuse mine, please try harder to understand why we ask for what we do.

As to your second paragraph can you remind us all why the hell do you want a solution? sounds like agreed partition would be better for you.

Like I said non all concerns can be addressed and each side has to take risks.
I want a solution for the future generations.

[Pyrpolizer]

Kikapu BBF is the only thing on the table right now but without agreement something will follow these talks which will not go on forever. BBF with political equality even with EU principles which we have shown can be adjusted if all sides agree is such a wide spectrum and includes so many loopholes, its those loopholes and pitfalls we are trying to protect ourselves from. When will you realize we are not bad people only people who do not trust due to past experiences. We do not get a second chance and if we leave the door wide open to manipulation and domination the GCs will not walk though it they will sprint.

Don't count on the UN to change BBF for you just because there is no settlement soon in order to give you something else. Only recently you were rightfully saying, that the GCs could not walk away from BBF without the TCs agreement. Well, that is also true for you, that the TCs cannot walk away from BBF without the GCs agreement also, and as far as I can see, the GCs have no intentions in walking away from BBF no matter, even if the next 10 settlements talks fail, let alone just the next one. The UN cannot arbitrarily chance the rules on BBF agreements made by both sides and impose another plan on their own without the agreements by the TCs and GCs. The way I see it, you are stuck with BBF as agreed by all parties in the past, only it has gotten more streamlined as to how it can be implemented with the addition of EU Principles, now that Cyprus is in the EU since 2004. Short of having an agreed partition, which would have it's own catastrophic consequences for the TCs in the long run, BBF as what's on the table now, is the best possible outcome for the TCs by being a majority in one of the states with a political voice in the government, and for the GCs to have the feeling of keeping territory of Cyprus intact and not losing any part of Cyprus to Turkey. For me, this is a win-win outcome to all Cypriots.

you stated the UN are bound to mediate forever and we can reject every deal put forward...I think many would disagree with you especially the UN. I agree that BBF with political equality of the two states is on offer but failure to agree time after time will only prove our differences are irreconcilable and that an alternative needs to be found this can take many shapes one of which is agree division for land.

The EU has brought nothing to the table, in fact the dream that it would solve all the GC problems by crushing Turkey soon evaporated and after 7 years and no advancements i think the GCs now have the message that without the two sides agreement nothing will materialize.

As an average TC who resides in the TRNC I have absolutely no expectations of finding a solution, both sides do not have the capacity desire or will to agree a solution let alone stick by it. We are kidding ourselves thinking that both sides want to unite and live together, to much water has passed under the bridge and the majority of people dont give a fig, all they think about is which restaurants to eat at, where to go at the weekend and where to go on holiday.

The only alternative that may come from the UN is their announcing that without implementing their OWN RESOLUTIONS there can be no solution.Now tell me which side refuses to implement UN's resolutions. The best you can expect from the UN is to just stop caring admitting their own incompetence