Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

God what more do you want Erdogan has near enough told the EU to fuck off....and you still believe they want to enter the EU your again showing us your illness of believing your own shit.

You like Erdogan have a very poor perception. It's called arrogance. Haven't you noticed that the EU has not let Turkey in but kept her out since 2005, until she gets her house in order. Turkey is not even allowed to open and close chapters. Just who is in charge of Turkey's future in the EU again?. That's right, the EU is. What Erdogan thinks he's done to the EU this week, the EU has been doing to Turkey for the last 6 years, which is showing Turkey the finger and by saying, "It is going to be our way, or the Highway". Personally, the EU should kick Turkey out of the accession talks and cancel her Customs Union until she gets her house in order as well as solve all her problems with her neighbours, including Cypriots, Kurds and the Armenians.

Serbia will be in the EU next, and they will not want Turkey in because of their support for Kosovo independence. The longer Turkey waits to get in the EU, the more countries will join before her who may not want her in at all. Cyprus will not be the only gate to pass through on her way to the EU sometime in the future. Erdogan is an empty suit with a lot of rhetoric, but no substance. He impresses no one with his game playing. It will only hurt the Turks in the future. It will come a time, that the only way Turkey can join the EU with those Turks who want to join the EU, will be for Turkey to break up, just so that the western part of Turkey then can become a EU member, while the rest remains in Asia.

[Viewpoint]

As I have said many times Turkey doesnt give a shit about joining the EU its just the idea thats important, you to are delusional any country with a desire to enter jumps through the hoops, Turkey show no signs of even seeing the hoops let alone jump though them, you cannot be this stupid on second thoughts maybe you can.

[boomerang]

CYPRUS
------

¶4. (C) Our British contact stressed that the Conclusions say
"absolutely nothing that has not been said before." He noted
that drafters had argued all through the night of March
25-26, only concluding their negotiations at 6 a.m. this
morning. While the final version says the Summit "welcomes
the Commission's continued willingness to offer assistance
for a speedy solution within the framework of the acquis,"
our contact said the Greek delegation had argued "endlessly"
for tougher language that would stress that any settlement
must conform to the acquis, or that no EU citizen could be
treated differently than another. He said that after the
negotiations the Greeks were irritated by the British
insistence on sticking strictly to old texts, while the Turks
were annoyed the Conclusions included any reference at all to
the "acquis." "The Turks should be pleased there is nothing
new in the text, and that it is not worse," he added. We
also note that the Conclusions include a sentence saying the
Summit "welcomes the Commission's offer to organize a
high-level international conference in Brussels on 15 April
to prepare a donors conference."

http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2004/03/04BRUSSELS1337.html

one can safely deduct the turks were shit scared of the aquis in 2004...and looking at it now nothing has changed...no wonder they loved the banana plan...

bottom line, poms should never be trusted...

Bottom line is, Annan, Blair and Bush were all corrupted to the core and did their very best in trying to screw Cypriots, both GCs and the TCs alike, by giving Turkey everything she asked for, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. It was a one shot deal however, that it had to be accomplished before the RoC became an EU member in 2004. Since then, all bets are off with such illegalities to be imposed in Cyprus post 2004, and now, Erdogan is left holding an empty bag of empty promises from the corrupted trio. If that wasn't bad enough, the failed plan of the corrupted trio left the RoC having political power over Turkey's future in the EU. For Erdogan and Turkey, this reality must be worse than death, a little island under it's occupation of the north who has managed to put himself in a situation where the RoC has managed to grab one of his/it's balls in one hand, and the the EU has grabbed the other at the same time in 2004, and both are squeezing them at will. Ouch! Lets not forget, that there will still be Turkey wanting to be in the EU long after the Erdogan's "Islamic Fundamentalist wagon" which is stuck in the 16th century Ottoman mentality has long come and gone.

that was the first time they strung him by the balls...the second time was when got a date in 2005....i remember blair telling him to sign and it does not mean recognition...what they didn't tell him is that by now, both his nuts have been ripped off...ergog being a politician, would have picked up the eu path is coming to a close...his mistake was greed...if he went for lesser demands he could have pulled it through...but the turks went all in, and unfortunately for them their hand was not good enough...turkey could have had an, sort off, honoury exit, now she is facing a humiliating exit, because sooner or later this is EU territory she is occupying...

erdog is very transparent...he says he is not the interlocutor to the gcs, the tcs are, and here is the moron rambling...either he is or he is not...the roc should seize on this and expose turkish hyprocracy...

i wonder how small erdogluye feels right now...first a parasite and now exposed as not even in charge of his own jock strap...pres x should also be asking him to clarify...this would set the talks back by atleast 6 months...compliments of erdog...further more pres x can cancel the talks because he is talking to the wrong man...

[boomerang]

wikileaks seemed to be in a hurry so they released all...

1...cypurs
http://www.wikileaks.ch/origin/83_0.html

2...turkey
http://www.wikileaks.ch/origin/186_0.html

worth sifting through...

[Jerry]

Yeah loads of interesting stuff such as :-

Concessions Turkey will have to make?

http://www.wikileaks.ch/cable/2005/02/05NICOSIA291.html

19. (C) If settlement talks restart in earnest, it is almost
certain theTurkish Cypriot side will need to make
concessions beyond what was provided for in the Annan Plan.
How much would the army allow to ensure Greek Cypriot
acceptance of a future settlement plan? Would the generals
agree to withdraw all their troops from Cyprus or abandon the
right of intervention? Would they allow the deportation of
significant numbers of Turkish settlers?

20. (C) These questions will not be decided in Cyprus. USDAO
notes the army here strictly adheres to orders from the
mainland; local commanders must get approval from Ankara to
meet with even working-level counterparts, and are unlikely
to show any initiative on their own. Turkish Cypriots will
continue to study how relations between AKP and the TGS
evolve -- and will need firm signals from both that the
military is on board before they offer further concessions
for a settlement. END COMMENT.
KLOSSON

[Jerry]

An American admission as to who really controls north Cyprus :-

Civilian Military relations in N. Cyprus

http://www.wikileaks.ch/cable/2005/02/05NICOSIA291.html

2. (C) Over the years, often with "President" Rauf Denktash's
active encouragement, the Turkish army has played a prominent
role in north Cyprus. Since the 2003 elections that brought
the pro-settlement CTP of Talat to power, the military has
loosened its grip on local politics and allowed a more open
dialogue over most questions of governance. But in the words
of one academic, the Turkish army remains a "800-pound
gorilla" with which the locals must cohabitate.

3. (C) The army's influence is due in no small part to the
sheer size of the Turkish garrison here, which is especially
large compared to the local population. Turkey keeps all
information that might reveal the exact number and
composition of these forces under wraps; OSCE and CFE
requirements do not oblige Turkey to report its troop
strength on Cyprus. But UNFICYP and USDAO estimate the force
consists of two mechanized infantry divisions totaling 25,000
men (plus roughly 3,000 dependent family members). This
means there is more than one Turkish solider for every ten
civilians in north Cyprus.

4. (C) The Turkish military's power is augmented by its
control over all Turkish Cypriot security forces. Under a
"temporary emergency" provision of Turkish Cypriot "law," the
Turkish Cypriot security forces are under the direct command
of a 2-star Turkish general. The 3000-5000-man Turkish
Cypriot military is completely integrated into Turkey's
"Peace Forces," and the civilian authorities have no
operational control over these units. The 2000-strong police
force is also directly subordinate to the Turkish army under
this arrangement.

The multiple use of "quotes " is interesting. The US knows the truth behind the Cyprus Problem but has not got the balls or integrity to do the right thing - KICK TURKEY'S ARSE.

[boomerang]

an intesting proposal from the turks...partners in the south and masters in the north...nice!

BTW is this what pres x has been negotiating for so long?...

C O N F I D E N T I A L ANKARA 000014

SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT ALSO FOR EUR/SE

E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/05/2020
TAGS: CY PREL TU UNFICYP US
SUBJECT: CYPRUS TALKS: TURKISH MFA PLUGS NEW PROPOSAL ON
CROSS-VOTING

REF: 09 ANKARA 1718

Classified By: CDA Doug Silliman, for reasons: 1.4 (b,d)

¶1. (C) SUMMARY. Turkish MFA Undersecretary Sinirlioglu on
January 5 passed the Charge a copy of the Turkish Cypriots'
latest proposal on Governance and Power-Sharing that includes
a cross-voting provision to enable Greek Cypriots to have a
10-20 percent weighted vote on Turkish Cypriot candidates for
President and Vice President in the new federation.
Sinirlioglu described this as a significant concession, and
indicated that it had come over the objections of "TRNC Prime
Minister" Eroglu and his National Unity Party (UBP). He also
noted that the proposal contains a "caveat" of granting
Turkey the EU Four Freedoms on Cyprus after a solution -- a
condition likely to be a complicating factor. END SUMMARY.

¶2. (C) On January 5 MFA Undersecretary Sinirlioglu convoked
the Charge, accompanied by POL Counselor, to convey a copy of
the Turkish Cypriot proposal on Governance and Power Sharing
that was passed to Greek Cypriot leader Christofias the
previous day. Deputy Undersecretary Halit Cevik and
Greece/Cyprus Deputy Director General Kerim Uras sat in.
Sinirlioglu noted that the T/C proposal had been handed over
to Christofias in UNSYG Special Advisor Downer's presence.
He said Ankara also had passed a copy to the Spanish EU
Presidency and to the UK, but had asked them to keep it
confidential and not to pass it along to other EU members.
He also asked the USG to maintain the confidentiality of the
package.

¶3. (C) Sinirlioglu noted that Talat (and, by implication,
Ankara) is trying to keep "one step ahead" of the ROC in the
negotiating process, and therefore had decided to yield to
the Greek Cypriot insistence on the principle of cross-voting
-- something which has never existed on Cyprus since its 1960
founding. He said the Turkish Cypriot proposal would allow a
10 percent weighted voting in the first election of the
President and Vice President. This percentage would
ultimately rise to 20 percent. (Note: The proposal's actual
wording states that "the Greek Cypriot votes for the Turkish
Cypriot candidates shall be weighted so that they form the
same percentage as the percentage of the Turkish Cypriot
registered voters in the total number of the Turkish Cypriot
electorate and Greek Cypriot electorate together." End Note)
Sinirlioglu commented that the principle is more important
than the actual percentage, and that Christofias had said
earlier that even one percent would be sufficient.

¶4. (C) Sinirlioglu added that the "caveat" in the proposal is
that Turkey should also be granted the EU Four Freedoms after
a solution. (Note: These are the EU Freedoms of Movement of
Goods, Capital, Services and Persons -- distinct from the
Three Freedoms of Movement, Settlement and Property which
have been laced into the Cyprus talks since the late 1970s.
End Note) He said the granting of EU membership to the Greek
Cypriots in 2004 had altered the balance of power on the
island. Any settlement should reinstitute the original
balance, with a derogation for Turkey to enjoy the EU Four
Freedoms. This point would have to be "negotiated" with the
EU, Sinirlioglu said, but argued that the new proposal
"deserves support" from the USG.

¶5. (C) We asked if "TRNC Prime Minister" Eroglu and his
National Unity Party (UBP) now supported this cross-voting
concept, since we understood that earlier they had strongly
opposed it. Sinirlioglu conceded that UBP "were against it
but have been fully informed" about the latest package. Uras
interjected that the Governance and Power-Sharing proposal
should be seen as a "significant sacrifice" by Turkish
Cypriot leader Talat and the Turkish Cypriots because it was
viewed as such a sensitive issue in the north.

¶6. (C) The Charge said the US has been closely following the
negotiating process and remains cautiously optimistic about a
settlement. He promised to consult with Washington on the
latest proposal. He asked if Ankara has seen any movement on
the calls for a trilateral (Greece, Britain, Turkey) or
quadrilateral (Greece, Turkey, T/C, G/C) meeeting.
Sinirlioglu said the Spanish have been working on the latter
and are optimistic after getting positive initial reactions
from the Greek Cypriots and Greece. On the former, he said
Ankara is still talking to the British to get clarity on

their intentions. "We don't want to give an excuse to anyone
to derail talks on the island." Now is not the time to
discuss issues such as the Treaty of Guarantee, he said.
"Let us first see a light at the end of the negotiating
tunnel." Issues of Governance and Property are more
concrete, he noted.

¶7. (C) A non-paper attached to the draft proposal states that
it contains "other elements which are forward leaning," such
as: changing the T/C position on numerical equality in some
important economic institutions; giving some additional
competences (such as health and antiquities) to the federal
government; giving the federal executive the right to suspend
an agreement of the Constituent States and refer it to the
Constitutional Court, even if this agreement is on a matter
that falls within the competence of the Constituent States.

¶8. (C) COMMENT: It is instructive, and laudable, that Ankara
seems to have supported Talat in this package over the
objections of "PM" Eroglu and his UBP colleagues. The GOT
seems both determined to bridge key differences on this
Governance and Power-Sharing chapter, and also to get credit
from us and the EU for being "forward leaning." The caveat
on granting to Turkey the EU Four Freedoms on Cyprus will
almost certainly be a complicating factor.

¶9. (C) We will scan and transmit the Proposal and non-paper
to EUR/SE.


"Visit Ankara's Classified Web Site at http://www.intelink.s
gov.gov/wiki/Portal:Turkey"


SILLIMAN

http://wikileaks.org/cable/2010/01/10ANKARA14.html