Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

Four of the 10 Best Shipping Stocks for 2012 are Greek!

NMM
NAVIOS MARITIME PARTNERS LP
85 Akti Miaouli Street
Piraeus, 185 38


SB
SAFE BULKERS INC
32 Avenue Karamanli
16605 Voula
Athens, J3 16605



NM
NAVIOS MARITIME HOLDINGS INC
85 Akti Miaouli Street
Piraeus, 185 38


DSX
DIANA SHIPPING INC
Pendelis 16, Palaio Faliro
175 64 Palaio Faliro
Athens, 175 54

There, you just had your answer from the fifth column Always on the subject of the topic!!

[supporttheunderdog]

I know things are bad - I'm not denying the sacrifices the Greeks are making for everyone.

But why are the Greeks the only ones punished when the figures suggest others are worse perpetrators?

Tell me!

Compare the figures and tell me who else should be making sacrifices:

15. Greece: 178.9%
External debt (as % of GDP): 178.9%

Gross external debt: $546.92 billion
2011 GDP (est.): $305.6 billion

External debt per capita: $50,792

And

2. United Kingdom: 451.4%
External debt (as % of GDP): 451.4%

Gross external debt: $10.157 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $2.250 trillion

External debt per capita: $161,110

The problem seems to be that Greece is no longer able to meet its repayment obligations while others may currently be able to do so, and that is why Greece is in the kak at this time.

Cut the crap, stud.

When have they failed to make a repayment?

(Even without printing more money like the UK does.)

They will quite soon unless more money is thrown into the hole that is Greece at present.
IF they leave the Euro and revert to Drachma (which remains a big IF) they will "print money" as you put it but cannot while tied to the Euro.

[supporttheunderdog]

Four of the 10 Best Shipping Stocks for 2012 are Greek!

NMM
NAVIOS MARITIME PARTNERS LP
85 Akti Miaouli Street
Piraeus, 185 38


SB
SAFE BULKERS INC
32 Avenue Karamanli
16605 Voula
Athens, J3 16605



NM
NAVIOS MARITIME HOLDINGS INC
85 Akti Miaouli Street
Piraeus, 185 38


DSX
DIANA SHIPPING INC
Pendelis 16, Palaio Faliro
175 64 Palaio Faliro
Athens, 175 54

There, you just had your answer from the fifth column Always on the subject of the topic!!

The Key point that you and GIG have overlooked is that the ships are trading interntionally and the companies are therefore not dependendant on or even closely linked to the Greek domestic Markets: you may have to look a very long way back to find one of these firms ships taking cargo either from or too Greece.

[kimon07]

There, you just had your answer from the fifth column Always on the subject of the topic!!

The Key point that you and GIG have overlooked is that the ships are trading interntionally and the companies are therefore not dependendant on or even closely linked to the Greek domestic Markets: you may have to look a very long way back to find one of these firms ships taking cargo either from or too Greece.

I did not comment anything on your dialog with GIG. I just commented on an off topic posting by Bananiot. And I would never include you in the fifth column lot to which I include only "Greeks" and "Greek" Cypriots. Besides, I consider your stance towards Cyprus and the Cyprus problem positive and friendly.

[boomerang]

Unlike the two of you, Boom and grump, I don't pretend to be an economics' expert which is why I question the reasons for the lies (politics) against Greece. I also don't have an anti-Greek agenda that is so strong and blind (unlike you two) that it would rather see Cyprus suffer through its links/alliance to Greece if only to delight briefly in seeing Greece badmouthed.

But you are both wrong, even with your economics:


http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959/The_Wor ... ns?slide=1


Follow the slide show and weep!

15. Greece: 178.9%
External debt (as % of GDP): 178.9%

Gross external debt: $546.92 billion
2011 GDP (est.): $305.6 billion

External debt per capita: $50,792

14. Germany: 183.9%
External debt (as % of GDP): 183.9%

Gross external debt: $5.674 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $3.085 trillion

External debt per capita: $69,788

2. United Kingdom: 451.4%
External debt (as % of GDP): 451.4%

Gross external debt: $10.157 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $2.250 trillion

External debt per capita: $161,110

1. Ireland: 1,239%
External debt (as % of GDP): 1,239%

Gross external debt: $2.26 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $182.1 billion

External debt per capita: $478,087

Now why is this thread about a "greek mess" and not about a "UK mess" where ZoC lives? Because he is like you two - only concerned with being anti-Greek.

You are all cloned sheep that think they are economics and political experts just because you support 100% anything bad said against Greece - you are so anti-Greek you cannot see straight!

Now go back to your anti-Greek forum, Boom, where your clones beg for your 'wisdom'.

you still don't get it do you GIG...everyone is out to get greece and for what may I ask?...for their brilliance in everything?...you make me laugh...

all theose countries you listed apart from greece are able to this day to pay the outgoings...yes some by a whisker...neverther less they are able to...

what you do not seem to understand is the the difference between public and private debt...out of all this, private companies will do very well due to the enforcing their own employment rules, read exploitation...in layman terms, a greek screwing a greek...

the public debt is what brought greece to its knees...a bloated public sector, inability to enforce money collection, pensions, church getting a free ride, etc...the austerity plan was to eliminate all these to some extend...the unemployed thus far are from the public sector... not the private sector...ofcource some fall out of the private sector is to be expected as some companies are exposed to banks...and why some companies are exposed to banks?...because the greek government not only ranksacked they greek banks but everyother bank they could get their hands on...look at cyprus...the banking system was healthy till the thieving greeks got their rotten mittent hands on them...but according to your logic, the cypriot banks are as much to blame as all the other banks, conspiring with other banks to screw greece...nice logic you have their...i think you lost the plot...

lets face it, greece went for the easy and cheap loans and lived above her means...

my thoughts in all these, the Eurozone at this moment is preparing with all these loans and bailouts to ease greece's exit from the eurozone...as not affect the others...this will leave greece to devaluate their own currency as much as they need to...labour laws need to be radically modified to attract foreign investment, by all means not an easy feat, but needed in the short to mid term...

end of the day, the government in greece needs to sack people, currently 14% of the population out of a labour force of 5 million works for the government...in a country that produces nothing...go figure...

if greece was a private company she would have gone belly up 20 times...actually there are laws that prohibits companies from trading while they are insolvent...why not governments?...why not following the same rules since they wrote the rules...

Now why is this thread about a "greek mess" and not about a "UK mess" where ZoC lives? Because he is like you two - only concerned with being anti-Greek.

You are all cloned sheep that think they are economics and political experts just because you support 100% anything bad said against Greece - you are so anti-Greek you cannot see straight!

Now go back to your anti-Greek forum, Boom, where your clones beg for your 'wisdom'.

UK is not in a mess, yes no growth but they have heavy industries and not a bloated public sector...even the queen has to pay taxes...unlike the greek churches that deprived the government of funds so the government borrows to fund the bloated public sector......

i think it is you that lives in la la land...wakey wakey, open a window and start waving your greece banana republic flag...that should do the trick...

oh i forgot, clone sheep you say....well i know who i am, do you?...i am a cypriot, and you are a greek born in cyprus right?...who in your opinion is cloned here?...

and what other forum are you babbling on about?...i barely have time to scratch my ass not alone participate in other forums...you see i work, i do not borrow, live above my means just to blame the bank for taking my house in some world wide conspiracy... ...but then again i ain't no greek or a cloned greek...

greeks are in line for some rude awakening...it will take time to sink in but it will...it has not reached bottom yet...epecially if greece leaves the safety of the eurozone in an orderly fashion, because if she was not in the eurozone and drachmas instead she would have been in a lot more trouble with massive devaluations were you would need a suitcase stuffed with monopoly money just to buy bread...some where turkey was a few years ago...

mark my words on this if greece ever contemplates leaving the eurozone in NOT an orderly fashion everyone will be out to screw her to the bone...understandbly from my part...i would want blood as well...save me the anti greek crap...

another 100Billion euros to greece as we speak just to prop the banks...as i said earlier the EU is trying to minimise the fall out from greeces exit from the eurozone...'the eurozone is meant to be a symbol of success for the EU, but with greece in it, its turning to be a disaster...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47513542

on a side note, trying to insult me is only an excuse from your behalf to deflect...either input something worthwhile to the debate or best keep the trap shut...

greece is in deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep shit coz of their own making...they cooked the books just to get in the eurozone so they can plunder it...end of story...

It should have been made clear from the start , only countries that are net condributors to the EU should have joined the eurozone...the others should have been shown the door...

[cyprusgrump]

I know things are bad - I'm not denying the sacrifices the Greeks are making for everyone.

But why are the Greeks the only ones punished when the figures suggest others are worse perpetrators?

Tell me!

Compare the figures and tell me who else should be making sacrifices:

15. Greece: 178.9%
External debt (as % of GDP): 178.9%

Gross external debt: $546.92 billion
2011 GDP (est.): $305.6 billion

External debt per capita: $50,792

And

2. United Kingdom: 451.4%
External debt (as % of GDP): 451.4%

Gross external debt: $10.157 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $2.250 trillion

External debt per capita: $161,110

The problem seems to be that Greece is no longer able to meet its repayment obligations while others may currently be able to do so, and that is why Greece is in the kak at this time.

Cut the crap, stud.

When have they failed to make a repayment?

(Even without printing more money like the UK does.)

That would be in March then!

MOST came quietly in the end. After a tortuous process, the majority of private holders of Greek government bonds had agreed by March 9th to trade in their bonds for new longer-dated ones with less than half the face value of the old ones and a low interest rate. The biggest sovereign-debt restructuring in history allowed Greece to wipe some €100 billion ($130 billion) from its debts of around €350 billion. It will also be the first test of the resilience of the financial system to the payment on sovereign bonds of credit-default swaps (CDSs), a form of insurance against bad debts.

Holders of €152 billion of the €177 billion of sovereign bonds issued under Greek law signed up to the swap. The rest—those who did not respond to the bond-exchange offer or the holders of around €9 billion of bonds who opposed it—were forced to accept the deal. The Greek government invoked a recently enacted law that bound all private bondholders to the bond-swap if more than two-thirds of them consented to it. Holders of around €20 billion of the €29 billion of Greek bonds included under foreign law also agreed to the swap*. The rump were given until March 23rd to come around to the deal.

Clicky

It was in effect a default....

[cyprusgrump]

I know things are bad - I'm not denying the sacrifices the Greeks are making for everyone.

But why are the Greeks the only ones punished when the figures suggest others are worse perpetrators?

Tell me!

Compare the figures and tell me who else should be making sacrifices:

15. Greece: 178.9%
External debt (as % of GDP): 178.9%

Gross external debt: $546.92 billion
2011 GDP (est.): $305.6 billion

External debt per capita: $50,792

And

2. United Kingdom: 451.4%
External debt (as % of GDP): 451.4%

Gross external debt: $10.157 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $2.250 trillion

External debt per capita: $161,110

There is an excellent article which answers your question here.

I'll highlight a paragraph in case you don't read it....

The eurozone's "constitution" denies member countries like Greece a proper functioning central bank and monetary system.

The Greek government does not have access to a central bank which, like the Bank of England (BoE), generates finance (quantitative easing or "liquidity") for both the private banking system, but also government.

The BoE has effectively financed the UK government's deficit by creating new money digitally, and then buying up government bonds or gilts.

Instead the eurozone framework - articles 123-5 of the Lisbon Treaty and European Central Bank (ECB) statutes - forces poor countries like Greece to turn to the private banking sector, the international bond markets, for finance.

[cyprusgrump]

The €uro Explained

By fictional genius, Lord Slackbladder:

Baldrick: What I want to know, Sir, is before there was a Euro there were lots of different types of money that different people used. And now there’s only one type of money that the foreign people use. And what I want to know is, how did we get from one state of affairs to the other state of affairs?

Blackadder: Baldrick. Do you mean, how did the Euro start?

Baldrick: Yes sir.

Blackadder: Well, you see Baldrick, back in the 1980s there were many different countries all running their own finances and using different types of money. On one side you had the major economies of France, Belgium, Holland and Germany, and on the other, the weaker nations of Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy and Portugal. They got together and decided that it would be much easier for everyone if they could all use the same money, have one Central Bank, and belong to one large club where everyone would be happy. This meant that there could never be a situation whereby financial meltdown would lead to social unrest, wars and crises.

Baldrick: But this is sort of a crisis, isn’t it, Sir?

Blackadder: That’s right Baldrick. You see, there was one slight flaw with the plan.

Baldrick: What was that then, Sir?

Blackadder: It was bollocks.



Shamelessly stolen from here.

[bsharpish]

So if Greece defaults and issues the drachma as currency it may benefit ( eventually) ........ On this most Economists agree

Of course, if this happens, it will then cripple Cypriot banks and hence the Cypriot government/people .... Along will trot the ECB and IMF ...... Cue Austerity for Cyprus.

1. I wonder what effect this will have on all the "Enosis crowd"
2. I wonder if this is why " the beloved leader" is not standing again
3. I'm sure that the Turks will laugh there bollocks off and try to exploit this.
4. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cyprus snuggling up tighter to Israel and look for a quick buck re- oil and gas
5. At this point the Turks would stop laughing, the Russians would get interested and tensions would rise.

The last 2 points are rather personal speculations, however, I do envisage a scenario where the downfall of Greece forces Cyprus into rash decisions regarding its potential hydrocarbon resources....... Decisions which ease the short term financial pain but are, in the long term, not best for the people of Cyprus.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Greece is the most pro-European country (80% of the population) in the EU. That's why it's being singled out for this capitalist experiment. To see how far the bankers can push people for profiteering.

The reason Greece is so pro-European involves Cyprus and the threat from Turkey.

All those who pretend they love Cyprus so much, and want to 'prove' their love by their anti-Greek propaganda are doing the most harm. But they don't mind because most of them are Brits or Turks or far away from the other half of the planet.

- If you love Cyprus, you have to support Greece because if Greece is forced to crumble, the Turks will invade the whole Greek nation's territories and Cyprus will become a grain of sand for imported Muslims.

(Germany knows this, hates the Turks and will probably not push to the limit. I pray. They just want money!)