Cyprus-Forum.com

[kurupetos]

This will happen later rather than sooner but it will happen all the same as we will never be able to agree a solution unifying the island.

how about sinop in the north of turkey? looks nice. never know, maybe cypriots would accept this land for recognition...

No, we want Istanbul.

[repulsewarrior]

dear CRealist,

firstly welcome to this Forum...

Land for Recognition...

i ask are you Greek, "Greek",
...or Cypriot; Kypreo?

This is the Crux of the Problem...

if you are comfortable with the idea that there are Maronites and Armenians whose roots in Cyprus exist, then Turks too need to sustain an identity as a
Person. There is nothing complicated about being an Individual expecting to stand as an Equal to defend Universal Rights, yet
we have chosen to find a definition that can be emulated by the rest of Mankind, for Bicommunalism; a People United as Individuals, as Persons in a manner giving to the minorities which live amongst "them": Cypriots, composed as well with many National Assemblies.

i choose to believe that not an inch of Cyprus and its rich Heritage should be sacrificed for such a peace; it leaves us always in a state of war, subjects to a motive from our interlocutory States, where we will suffer just the same, even without war's violence.

i choose to change and to adapt so that we are able as sustainers, better Human Beings, not just sustaining "our" mono clonal culture which in reality has never been a Cypriot trait, but as Cypriots (Modern in this Information Age) able to communicate and facilitate in many languages. in our last three hundred years we became a backwater, isolated from the rest of the world, mostly village dwellers, unlike any other time with little social-exchange, within a long history (need i say that at the times Egypt built pyramids, they were here for the copper calling it Cyprus, and two thousand years ago many of us were Jews, did you know that a great many Cypriots are Bulgarian in origin, now?). point being, we are Greek speaking, and as able with English as a common language because we are more than this, not because of our "Greekness", or as you chose one other (only), it is that we love one another first, this is the key to our survival; the same because (let's say,) there is One god. if we love this island (and the planet), there is this respect, for its rare diversity. our need to keep "it" living in a world which is always changing dominated by giants that want to grow, this Heritance, now an ethnosphere, (not just here, but in the here and now on this planet), all its parts threatened with extinction.

not in the next 20 or forty years but two hundred years from now, what we decide today counts. we are free from subjugation as Cypriots for the first time in thousands of years, you will give this away.

...hope to see you around, dialog and collective acts from the grass roots are needed. Your first topic is a good start.

cheers!

[SKI-preo]

I find people who say human rights abuses should be accepted for practical reasons disgusting. Turkish Cypriots human rights must be addressed and Greek Cypriot Human rights must be addressed.

[CRealist]

Hello to all!

I am a Cypriot (Greek) who is tired of the Cyprus Problem. Every year we hear more of the same and no solution in sight! And with the kind of solution negotiated today, even if we finally came to some agreement, it would probably result in something too complicated and practically unworkable. Time to look to an alternative form of solution.

The solution I propose is not new but I believe it was never given the appropriate attention. This solution is "Land for Recognition". In short, the Turks give back a significant part of the territory they occupy and in return we recognize a separate state in north Cyprus.

Such solution can work, and could be the best possible solution for all Cypriots, Greek and Turkish, if the following condition is met:

1. The land returned should be enough, in terms of both amount and potential value, so that a proper exchange of properties can be made. The Turkish community owns about 18% of property while the Greek community about 82%. Today property ownership of both communities is distributed all over the island. With this solution the Turkish Cypriots will own almost the 100% of the land in the north, while the Greek Cypriots almost the 100% of the south, in a fair exchange where nobody gets more and nobody gets less than what they actually own. This means the size of the two states should be about 82% - 18% of the territory of the island.

We can also take this solution a step further. The Turkish Cypriots could agree that most Turkish Settlers will return to Turkey and that the Turkish troops will leave from Cyprus and this will enable the Greek Cypriots to agree that the newly formed Turkish Cypriot state will become an equal EU member. This would result in a unification of sorts through EU, with free movement, free trade and everything else that unites the EU countries.

Some of the benefits of this solution:

1. All refugees are compensated with an equivalent amount of land.
2. Cyprus will be free from Turkey and Cypriots (Greek and Turkish) will be free to run their own states.
3. Each state will have a normal democratic system instead of a complicated and unworkable system that would result from a BBF based solution.
4. There will be no problems that could result from differences in language and religion.
5. Cyprus will be reunited in the same degree as it would with a BBF like an Annan plan. No, it will not be a true and full unification but this wouldn't be the case with a BBF solution either.
6. The Turkish Cypriots will learn to take responsibilities and do what is best for themselves rather than doing what is best for Turkey. Once the conflict with Greek Cypriots is over they will realize that neither the oppressive authority of the Turkish army nor the vast amounts of Anatolian Settlers is something which is for their own interests. Having secured independence and an entry in EU they will have the means to free themselves from Turkey.

For this solution to materialize brave decisions need to be taken. The Greek Cypriots will have to accept that a significant part of Cyprus will be a separate Turkish state. Yes, we have a history in Kyrenia that goes back many 1000s of years but unfortunately we need to make some sacrifices if a solution is going to be found. The Turkish Cypriots will have to accept that they can not keep for themselves anywhere near the amount of land presently occupied by the Turkish army. If they want a real, free and truly independent state then they have to give a lot of that land back to Greek Cypriots.

What do the members of this forum think about this solution? Are you willing to move on and do what is needed for a workable solution?

This is partition my friend and you have to know that partition COSTS. In fact it COSTS so much that ANY side that would dare propose it will lose so much, that they can't even propose it.
In fact if the GC side were so stupid to propose such a thing it would be lucky to eventually get back some 1%. You see by proposing it, it STAYS as a FACT, and what is left is just what percentage is going to be returned.There will be endless negotiations for the percentage, and since ...... hooray we have already agreed that the basis of the solution will be partition the occupied will be recognized the VERY NEXT DAY.

We are discussing BBF for more than 2 decades. Just proposing it and discussing it alone didn't make BBF a reality. Land for Recognition will be the same. Such proposal will include as a package both aspects with the exact parts of land that Republic of Cyprus wants back in order to offer recognition. Our proposal package can also include the significant reduction of Settlers, the withdrawal of Turkish troops and the accession of the Turkish Cypriot state in EU, all of which will be beneficial for both Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

[CRealist]

I find people who say human rights abuses should be accepted for practical reasons disgusting. Turkish Cypriots human rights must be addressed and Greek Cypriot Human rights must be addressed.

If human rights abuses were unacceptable then the Turkish occupation would not go on for almost 4 decades and the UN would not propose something like the Annan plan. Evidently human rights abuses are aceptable and there is nothing we can do about it. Just keep repeating that human rights abuses are not acceptable will not restore our rights. The best we can do is to restore the human rights of as many people as possible and fairly compensate the rest. Land for Recognition is the only realistic solution that can deliver this.

[ZoC]

Land for Recognition is the only realistic solution that can deliver this.

ok... how about antalya? it looks nice...

[CRealist]

i choose to believe that not an inch of Cyprus and its rich Heritage should be sacrificed for such a peace; it leaves us always in a state of war, subjects to a motive from our interlocutory States, where we will suffer just the same, even without war's violence.

The only way not to lose an inch of Cyprus is to win a war against Turkey. That is not possible. We will be in a constant state of war if something like Annan plan is implemented. There will be deadlocks, vetos and a constant struggle between the two communities for every important choice that the Cypriot state would need to make. Without a fair and democratic system to take decisions the system will probably collapse after a few years. With a Land for Recognition solution none of these would happen. We will democratically decide about our state and the Turkish Cypriots will decide about theirs.

[Bananiot]

Basically you are not saying anything different than B25 and the rest who simply wish Turkey to go away. They are just too thick to understand you ... but, if I may remind you, someone more important than you and me, came up with your idea some time ago, when he told the world that partition is the second best solution. I leave it to your imagination to guess what the ideal solution is.

[humanist]

The TC's return whats not theirs and Turkey withdraws its troops and settlers, allowance made for settlers with ties to Cyprus, Turkey joins the EU and all is happy in the mediteranian

[Bananiot]

Humanist, wake up man, Turkey will not be wished away. This is just wishful thinking, good for the soul, but no practical value.