Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

We are trying to discuss why they GCs rejected the only opportunity they will ever have to unite under a BBF.

They rejected the Annan Plan. Not a federal solution. Don't confuse the two.

Only opportunity forget the type or style.

I think you ought to consider for a moment just how stupid this comment is.

You will never have an opportunity ever again....think how serious this comment is.

[Hermes]

We are trying to discuss why they GCs rejected the only opportunity they will ever have to unite under a BBF.

They rejected the Annan Plan. Not a federal solution. Don't confuse the two.

Only opportunity forget the type or style.

I think you ought to consider for a moment just how stupid this comment is.

You will never have an opportunity ever again....think how serious this comment is.

The G/Cs rejected the Annan Plan in 2004. Get over it.

[Viewpoint]

Well done, you kissed the north goodbye forever.

[Pyrpolizer]

The EU (member states) supported the AP on the basis that both sides said YES at the referendum, so they would have passed it if both sides agreed.

So your answer is YES, the Anan Plan would get a YES vote in the parliaments of lets say the majority of the EU member states and become primary EU Aquis. Am I correct?

Correct.

Then go ask any British you like whether he would agree that his home and property be confiscated by the state, be donated to the Pakistanis, and he to compensate himself. If you get even one yes, then cut your throat

[Viewpoint]

The EU (member states) supported the AP on the basis that both sides said YES at the referendum, so they would have passed it if both sides agreed.

So your answer is YES, the Anan Plan would get a YES vote in the parliaments of lets say the majority of the EU member states and become primary EU Aquis. Am I correct?

Correct.

Then go ask any British you like whether he would agree that his home and property be confiscated by the state, be donated to the Pakistanis, and he to compensate himself. If you get even one yes, then cut your throat

What the hell are you on about these would be derogations not the norm.

[Pyrpolizer]

Ask any French you like whether he would agree that no native French will be allowed to be more than 10% the Algerian immigrants in some 29% of France. If you get even one yes then cut your throat.

Ask any German you like whether he would agree to lose everything he has except one house and a one donum of land just because there are many Turks in Berlin. If you get even one yes then you cut your throat.

See, i saved you 3 throats so far. Because you would not get any yes for most of the Anan Plan provisions, you would not find not evenone European MP who would vote yes for such a monstrosity like the Anan Plan

[Pyrpolizer]

The EU (member states) supported the AP on the basis that both sides said YES at the referendum, so they would have passed it if both sides agreed.

So your answer is YES, the Anan Plan would get a YES vote in the parliaments of lets say the majority of the EU member states and become primary EU Aquis. Am I correct?

Correct.

Then go ask any British you like whether he would agree that his home and property be confiscated by the state, be donated to the Pakistanis, and he to compensate himself. If you get even one yes, then cut your throat

What the hell are you on about these would be derogations not the norm.

You are a COMPLETE IGNORANT. Go read the Ann Plan....

[Pyrpolizer]

FOR THE EDUCATION OF VIEWPOINT

According to the Anan Plan some 8% of the land will be returned under GC administration.However for a refugee to return to his property, this should be free. A property is not free if: (a) if it is used for public purposes (School, street, governmental building, medical centre etc) (b) if it is used or required for military purposes (c) if it is used for 10 continuous years by a TC, and the Turkish Cypriot has his own property that he wishes to exchange (d) if the property has been subtantially improved by the TC or Settler user. (e) if it belongs to Organisations (that is to say companies, associations, institutions etc). This property will be compensated.

Based on the Anan Plan the matter of properties will be solved based on international law, the rights of the oweners (refugees) the bizonality, and the rights of current users (TCs and settlers). From there and beyond there are two groups of refugees
(a) those that will return in the TC Constituent state and (b) those who will return in the GC Constituent state.

(a) Return under TC administration
The Greekcypriots should not exceed the 1% of population of the TC Constituent state the first year of agreement, the 2% the second year, the 7% in the seventh year etc etc upto 20% in the twentieth year. (1% per year) After the twenty years (I believe finally they got reduced to 15) the return will be freer and the Greekcypriots can reach upto one third of TC population. However, because the return of refugees is connected directly with the regulation of the matter of properties, the return of these refugees is impended, because: according to the moratorium no property will be returned before the first 3-5 years. So, the first 4 years it will not be possible for the 4% of refugees (about 8000 people) to return. The Anan Plan is conflicting!
Furthermore: In order for someone to return he must get approval from the Council of Properties, which Council will accept applications for one year after the signature of the fundamental agreement and for another year after the implementation. That is to say the process of applications will be completed roughly two years after the signature of the primary Agreement. Then it will begin examining the applications… But once again, the poor refugee who will finally get approval, will NOT be eligible to return because there are another 3 conditions: a) The Council of properties must have decided for at least the 90% of the applications b) the percentages(1% per year) are met, and the applicants age gives him priority over other applicants and c) An alternative roof for the family that already lives in the house is found.

Tell me how many years are need for all these to happen, considering how many thousands applications this Council of Properties will receive, and how many thousands homes should be built before some refugees could finally return to their houses.

(b) Return under Greek-Cypriot administration

In order for a refugee to return the property must first be declared returnable by the Council of Properties. Provided however the property is used, then this property will only be returned when the present user is settled elsewhere. This process will last according to the Plan three years maximum from the signature of Agreement. That is to say in the first three years, the TCcomponent state is oblidged to accomodate the 40-45 thousands that live today in these regions. Where and how only God knows. Many of them will have the right to remain in the properties if they buy the property or get accomodated privately in the region.

[Pyrpolizer]

FURTHER EDUCATION FOR VIEWPOINT

Go around page 99 of the Plan where it talks about the properties.The first thing that will happen is some exchange of properties between GCs and TCs who have approximately equal dispossed properties.In this respect some GCs will lose nothing because they will have the chance to exchange their properties with equal TC properties.

The remaining GCs and TCs will get Bonds and Shares for their lost 2/3 properties.These papers are exchangeable with left over properties so if after the property exchange there is any TC property left in the South then some more GCs will exchage their papers with that TC land.So in the end ALL TCs will exchange their papers with GC land, whereas about 9% of the GCs refugees will exchange their properties with equal TC land.However the remaining 91% of the GCs will just remain with papers in hand.No TC will have to wait for 25 years to get money for his lost property, because he can exchange his property papers right away!! ONLY THE GCs WILL remain with stupid papers in hand, because their dispossed properties were much much more than the TC dispossed properties.

Furthermore lets see some other provisions of the Plan.The refugees can get 1/3 of their properties back which in MAXIMUM equals with 1 house plus 1 donum.NOBODY gets anything back if his property was less than 5 donums (dry land) or less than 2 donums (watered) land.So all small land owners get nothing back.

The bonds and the shares:The Anan plan talks that the people get Bonds for their 2/3 lost properties cashable in 25 years from the date the price is agreed.Given the fact that to come to an agreement most people will have to go to courts or even to European courts add another 5-10 years for settlement of the price of BONDS.
Second:The interest rate is not fixed.The property committe will set the interest rate according to how well the bussiness go.It may well be around 1% per year it might be zero.Considering that the price of land increases 15% per year this means that in the end of the 25-35 years the dispossed owner will get just a small fraction of the value of his property i.e 1/26th upto 1/98th of the price his property will have in 35 years.
Third:The only properties that will be available for sale will be GC properties in the TC Constituent state.Because like I said before, practically there will not be any TC property left in the GC Constituent state after the exchanges.However according to the Anan Plan NOBODY (Greek Cypriot or foreigner) can buy land in the TC Constituent state for the first 19 years!!! So where is the GC land going to be sold, and how will the committe find the money to start paying compensations at the 25th year? If the committee starts selling massively between the 19th and the 25th year the prices will drop so much, that in the end all properties will just go for peanuts……

[Viewpoint]

I know all that stuff, the reality you have to come face to face with is that no solution will be 100% perfect there will have to give and take, all you Gcs want is the right to dominate and take the whole island forcing us into minority status...you have to learn that nothing will ever be the same nor will you get 100% of what you want.


If you continue to try and belittle I will respond in the same manner or worse so stop it and be civil.