Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

You are very inconsistent, you claim that most thing have been agreed but you do not know the content as no one should as nothing is agree until everything is agreed, so really you are talking in riddles yet again.

The federal structure can change federal laws who over rule state laws, the import issue is the balance at this level which would be the content of any agreement which you do not know. Our concern is a structure which would give the GCs total control to pass laws that would not be accepted by TCs thats why we need a structure and guarantees to make this impossible, not allowing either the opportunity to manipulate the system in favour of one state.

[Pyrpolizer]

You o not understand what Political equality means
You do not understand how Federations work-in fact you think in terms of a Unitary state
You think that the Kibrisli side is so stupid that will waste even the fundamentals of what has been agreed a long time ago.
You do not believe the matter of power sharing is almost fully agreed as i told you.

And yet you repeat your same GHOST FANTASIES.

You 've just beated Bananiot 100 times.

Brabo! Bravo!

[Pyrpolizer]

..

[Viewpoint]

You o not understand what Political equality means
You do not understand how Federations work-in fact you think in terms of a Unitary state
You think that the Kibrisli side is so stupid that will waste even the fundamentals of what has been agreed a long time ago.
You do not believe the matter of power sharing is almost fully agreed as i told you.

And yet you repeat your same GHOST FANTASIES.

You 've just beated Bananiot 100 times.

Brabo! Bravo!

Dear Pyro,

You appear to be stabbing in the dark as you do not know what is being agreed plus when has any leader told us the truth. I on the other hand do not play guessing games because I have noway of knowing what has been agreed by the 2 leaders, my main concern is that is does not give the GCs the TCs on a plate to do as they wish against and take control of the whole island. Kikapus plan was a good example of how to sell out the TCs camaflouged under the veil of "democracy and human rights". Tell us what you feel as been agreed or what your leaders have told you.

[Kikapu]

You o not understand what Political equality means
You do not understand how Federations work-in fact you think in terms of a Unitary state
You think that the Kibrisli side is so stupid that will waste even the fundamentals of what has been agreed a long time ago.
You do not believe the matter of power sharing is almost fully agreed as i told you.

And yet you repeat your same GHOST FANTASIES.

You 've just beated Bananiot 100 times.

Brabo! Bravo!

Dear Pyro,

You appear to be stabbing in the dark as you do not know what is being agreed plus when has any leader told us the truth. I on the other hand do not play guessing games because I have noway of knowing what has been agreed by the 2 leaders, my main concern is that is does not give the GCs the TCs on a plate to do as they wish against and take control of the whole island. Kikapus plan was a good example of how to sell out the TCs camaflouged under the veil of "democracy and human rights". Tell us what you feel as been agreed or what your leaders have told you.

My plan is the best you can hope for that will give the TCs a very effective participation in how the government is run under Democracy and the EU Principles. If you do not want to apply EU principles, you need to get the Annan Plan, but out of the EU. Well, you had your chance with the AP in 2004 and you blew it, and now it's gone. Your only hope now is something like what my plan is based on. In order to get that, you will need to return 50% of the north back. You have already agreed to return back most of that 50%, so you are almost there really. Few more percentage, and you can become part of the EU 100% with Democracy and Human Rights. It's the only way forward, so stop telling porkies that my plan was a "sell out". Selling out the NeoPartitionists, YES, but not the decent TCs who want to live in a honest society away from the corrupted one they are in right now.!

[Viewpoint]

Lets not go there again Kikapu I exposed your plan for what it really is a sell out, within a very short time frame the one seat necessary would be grabbed by the GCs to take full control of the whole island..so stop trying to peddle your faulty goods we aint buying.

[Kikapu]

Lets not go there again Kikapu I exposed your plan for what it really is a sell out, within a very short time frame the one seat necessary would be grabbed by the GCs to take full control of the whole island..so stop trying to peddle your faulty goods we aint buying.

Just like Pyro said, you think the Federal system works like a Unitary system. It doesn't. I'll just have to put it down to ignorance with your lack of knowledge how a Federal system works for you to understand my plan and Democracy at the same time. BBF with EU Principles = my plan (or similar). I can't see how you can ever have a possibility to have something like the AP again as long as Cyprus is in the EU. If you do, let me know....please.

Try not to forget the EU Principles when ever possible.

[Viewpoint]

Lets not go there again Kikapu I exposed your plan for what it really is a sell out, within a very short time frame the one seat necessary would be grabbed by the GCs to take full control of the whole island..so stop trying to peddle your faulty goods we aint buying.

Just like Pyro said, you think the Federal system works like a Unitary system. It doesn't. I'll just have to put it down to ignorance with your lack of knowledge how a Federal system works for you to understand my plan and Democracy at the same time. BBF with EU Principles = my plan (or similar). I can't see how you can ever have a possibility to have something like the AP again as long as Cyprus is in the EU. If you do, let me know....please.

Try not to forget the EU Principles when ever possible.

Is the federal structure above the 2 states?

Can this federal structure be manipulated to the benefit of one community? eg your plan.

I think you are both confused by very basic flaws which you believe are only dangers in a unitary state but the same loop holes can also be easily used to take control of both states under a BBF, all it takes as was the case in our example which I proved just takes one seat in favor of the GCs and the TCs are in the cold yet again.

[Kikapu]

Lets not go there again Kikapu I exposed your plan for what it really is a sell out, within a very short time frame the one seat necessary would be grabbed by the GCs to take full control of the whole island..so stop trying to peddle your faulty goods we aint buying.

Just like Pyro said, you think the Federal system works like a Unitary system. It doesn't. I'll just have to put it down to ignorance with your lack of knowledge how a Federal system works for you to understand my plan and Democracy at the same time. BBF with EU Principles = my plan (or similar). I can't see how you can ever have a possibility to have something like the AP again as long as Cyprus is in the EU. If you do, let me know....please.

Try not to forget the EU Principles when ever possible.

Is the federal structure above the 2 states?

Yes, when it comes to "Bill of Rights" as well as being the sole representative of the country internationally. In other words, each state cannot violate any of the Federal laws and constitution in order to run their state in anyway they like by violating others rights given to them in the Federal constitution. This would only be a threat to those who intend on violating other basic rights given to them in the "Bill of Rights". Other than that, each state can run their states as they like, but also within their own state constitution, which cannot supersede the Federal Constitution. This will garantee the rights of ALL Cypriots. Isn't that what you want to happen, to safeguard ALL Cypriots rights as equal citizens.?

Can this federal structure be manipulated to the benefit of one community? eg your plan.

NO, because there will be already agreed Federal constitution by all the parties which cannot be changed unless overwhelming majority vote to change it from both north and south state. Even if what I warned you with my plan happens, that the GCs take away one or two seats in the upper house in the north state if you do not give back at least 50% of the land back, the Federal constitution will remain the same, unless you want to keep all of the 37% as it is today which will allow 200,000 GCs to return eventually to become the majority, or close to it in the north. Then you will have problems, which is why you need to compromise by giving most of their land back in order for you to maintain a TC majority in the north. It is that simple.

I had warned you of the dangers in the opening statements with my plan, so stop saying you "exposed something that was camouflaged". All you had to do was to read what I wrote of the dangers if you did not return at least 50% of the north back. The fact that you don't want to return back any, is where you are taking the risk of giving the one or two of the north's upper seats to the GCs if the majority of the GCs would choose to return. What you a gambling on is, that the majority of the GCs would not return to live in the north state and you are correct for the time being, but that's the risk you will be taking, and in time, if the GCs should decide to move to the north to settle in their own properties, then you will start losing those seats as I warned you with the below based on the EU Principles. You need to make the compromise, by giving most of the GCs land back for it to become part of the south state, is for you to maintain the north a majority TC, hence the upper house to be TC, hence the 50% power in the upper house.

Read what I wrote in my plan again to see that you did not "expose" anything, because you were already spoon fed by me as to what could happen if you did not return at least 50% of the north back in a BBF.

How much land for each Federal States

As I said from the beginning, there needs to be compromises made on land, if the above power sharing to work. In order for the TC’s to maintain all of their seats and 50% power in the Upper House, almost all the TC’s will need to be in the north state, and far less GC’s in the same state. If we take the present land sizes in the north and the south and kept it that way, within a short period of time, the TC’s will lose one or two Upper House seats to the GC’s if 200,000 GC’s (refugees) move to the north where their land is and where they once lived.


For the TC’s, they need to maintain their population in one state and land that they own, or else they will risk losing their Upper House 50% power to the GC’s, because they will also be able to vote and run for office in the state that they live in where they pay their taxes to the local government. There is no way to prevent this from happening if the TC’s do not give back substantial land back to the GC’s. I can’t stress this point enough.

cyprus21685.html

I think you are both confused by very basic flaws which you believe are only dangers in a unitary state but the same loop holes can also be easily used to take control of both states under a BBF, all it takes as was the case in our example which I proved just takes one seat in favor of the GCs and the TCs are in the cold yet again.

Even if that were to happen, which it won't, because you can ask for the "grandfathered-in population" clause that I gave you, it will not leave the TCs in the cold, because the Federal constitution would be already in place during the settlement talks.

Read the above to answer your question.

In short, giving back 50% of the north back to the GCs = majority TCs in the north, hence 50% power in the upper house.!

[B25]

Kiks, I bow to your superior knowledge on these matters, but I have a couple of questions:

1. Given there are as many Russians now living in Cyprus as there are remaining TCs, are they also eligable for their own state?
2. What %age of land, are the Armanian and Maronite Cypriots entitled too?
3. The mix of other nationalities which number greater than the TCs, are they also entitled to a seperate state, and if so what % and from whos share of the land will they take.

Seems to me that the TCs are making these demands as racists and discriminating against other nationalities. This begs the question, why do you think they are entitled to ANY %age of land and indeed any seperate state of their own???

Just wondered like.

Oh, and would they also afford the same ridiculous demands to the Kurds that number at least 25% of their own population back home????