Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

[bill cobbett]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

Ouch!!!! ...... reh VP watch where you're putting that case, it's on me toes.

You're a bit confused VP... or is someone leading you up the garden path again?

If the Regime don't like a Federal solution, why do you and your Illegal Regime keep turning up for the talks, where a Federal solution has already been agreed, and agreed again and again since 1977??

[Kikapu]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

No, thank you, for proving to us that the Annan Plan was a racist, non Democratic, Human Rights violation, against International law and EU Principles which are the reasons why you loved it and who is against True Federation that will stop you from such racist practices. We should ALL thank the GCs for voting "OXI" on the AP for preventing Racists Fascists like VP from violating others Democratic and Human Rights by "raining on VP's AP parade". We rest our case!

[Schnauzer]

Since Michalis Papapetrou will be attending the conference, one wonders whether there will be any 'KEO' available (out of deference to his presence) which may well entice a few other G/Cs to put in an appearance.

Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend as I will be 'Ballooning' in the Cheddar Gorge region (weather permitting) where there will be ample 'Hot Air' dispersed.

Perhaps CBBB might be encouraged to respond to the invitation if asked nicely (and 'KEO' mentioned) ............. just a thought.

[Pyrpolizer]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

It is becoming clearer and clearer from your posts that you are a taksimist, albeit slightly differentiated from the classic ones, in the sense that you would accept something near the classic partition.
Something like a very very lose confederation where there will be almost no relation between the confederal states, other than perhaps their common joining to the EU. You are not going to get such a thing. Not even if the lose confederal states were to be 18-82%. The best you can get is near TRUE FEDERATION, and because of the difficulty to reduce the area under Kibrisli administration far away from the present percentages you will get something about 25%. The Kypreos will not accept anything than equal rights (for both the Kypreos and the Kibrislis) on 100% of the area of Cyprus.

So make up your mind. Either stop rejecting everything we say in this forum regarding TRUE federations, or become a classic taksimist like your old friends Eric Dayi, and Zan so that we know what the hell you are upto.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

No, thank you, for proving to us that the Annan Plan was a racist, non Democratic, Human Rights violation, against International law and EU Principles which are the reasons why you loved it and who is against True Federation that will stop you from such racist practices. We should ALL thank the GCs for voting "OXI" on the AP for preventing Racists Fascists like VP from violating others Democratic and Human Rights by "raining on VP's AP parade". We rest our case!

No you appear to be confused about what we are discussing changing the goal posts to suit yourself, we are discussing how your plan left the door wide open to GC manipulation and total control of the whole island where as the AP didnt, thats why with the obvious mistrust and lack of commitment to a BBF from both sides should not move towards what we are discussing on another thread which is land for recognition the only real option we have left.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

It is becoming clearer and clearer from your posts that you are a taksimist, albeit slightly differentiated from the classic ones, in the sense that you would accept something near the classic partition.
Something like a very very lose confederation where there will be almost no relation between the confederal states, other than perhaps their common joining to the EU. You are not going to get such a thing. Not even if the lose confederal states were to be 18-82%. The best you can get is near TRUE FEDERATION, and because of the difficulty to reduce the area under Kibrisli administration far away from the present percentages you will get something about 25%. The Kypreos will not accept anything than equal rights (for both the Kypreos and the Kibrislis) on 100% of the area of Cyprus.

So make up your mind. Either stop rejecting everything we say in this forum regarding TRUE federations, or become a classic taksimist like your old friends Eric Dayi, and Zan so that we know what the hell you are upto.

"True Federation" is such a sweeping term has we have seen both sides have differing views on what it means and how it should be applied.....please explain to us what it means to you and how you see the TC role within your "True Federation".

[Pyrpolizer]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

It is becoming clearer and clearer from your posts that you are a taksimist, albeit slightly differentiated from the classic ones, in the sense that you would accept something near the classic partition.
Something like a very very lose confederation where there will be almost no relation between the confederal states, other than perhaps their common joining to the EU. You are not going to get such a thing. Not even if the lose confederal states were to be 18-82%. The best you can get is near TRUE FEDERATION, and because of the difficulty to reduce the area under Kibrisli administration far away from the present percentages you will get something about 25%. The Kypreos will not accept anything than equal rights (for both the Kypreos and the Kibrislis) on 100% of the area of Cyprus.

So make up your mind. Either stop rejecting everything we say in this forum regarding TRUE federations, or become a classic taksimist like your old friends Eric Dayi, and Zan so that we know what the hell you are upto.

"True Federation" is such a sweeping term has we have seen both sides have differing views on what it means and how it should be applied.....please explain to us what it means to you and how you see the TC role within your "True Federation".

Let's start from the basics. A true Fedration is when the Central Bank, matters of foreign affairs,, national security, natural resources, airspace and sea space, Nations Presidency, just to name a few belong exclusively to the Central Government.
From there and beyond the Federal States have local administration on all other matters like Police, education, Tax collection,Parliament etc but most of these are ALSO duplicated at Federal Level too, like we may have Federal Police, and Federal Parliament. In TRUE federation the laws of the Federal Government have higher hierarchy than the laws of the Fed States.

And of course because we are in the EU the laws of the EU are on top of everything

On people's level each citizen should has exactly the same rights and obligations as the other citizens of the particular state.The only difficulty for a BBF is that to maintain the bi-communality, the Kypreos living in the Kibrisli state should only cast their votes in their own Fed state.

There is no distinctive role of the Kibrislis or the Kypreos on a TRUE federation other than political equality at Federal level, which means an effective say for the Kibrisli Fed state, and running their local affairs by themselves.

What you have actually seen is not both sides having different views on what a true Federation is. What you 've seen is ONE side trying to pass a lose Confederation.... which is a totally different thing!!!

[Kikapu]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

No, thank you, for proving to us that the Annan Plan was a racist, non Democratic, Human Rights violation, against International law and EU Principles which are the reasons why you loved it and who is against True Federation that will stop you from such racist practices. We should ALL thank the GCs for voting "OXI" on the AP for preventing Racists Fascists like VP from violating others Democratic and Human Rights by "raining on VP's AP parade". We rest our case!

No you appear to be confused about what we are discussing changing the goal posts to suit yourself, we are discussing how your plan left the door wide open to GC manipulation and total control of the whole island where as the AP didnt, thats why with the obvious mistrust and lack of commitment to a BBF from both sides should not move towards what we are discussing on another thread which is land for recognition the only real option we have left.

No, no, you are the one who is confused. Under True Federation much like the USA, there is no one group or community in charge of the Federal Government. The people of the USA are in charge of the Federal Government through their representatives in the congress and the senate, which will be the same in Cyprus. Larger state will have more lower house representatives but have equal number of representatives in the upper house as with the smaller state. But this is in the future, because in the beginning, ALL the Federal Laws will be worked out during the negotiations between the TCs and the GCs, just as they were during the AP talks, which you seemed to have agreed to that arrangement already, because you voted for the AP. Once ALL the details have been worked out and the Federal Constitution has been drafted, then it is the product of ALL Cypriots and not the GCs, so stop your childish propaganda by repeating the same rubbish about the GCs running the Federal Government. If you are too stupid to understand how the True Federation works, then say so, so that I won't ridicule you and make you look stupid at every turn, but the truth is, I believe you do understand how True Federation works and that you are just making propaganda, in which case, I will make you look stupid and ridicule you every time. Once the Federal Constitution has been drafted, then the two states can draft their own respected state constitutions, which will not and cannot supersede the Federal Constitution and guidelines. You can run your state in anyway you want as long as it does not violate any of the Federal Governments policies which ALL Cypriots have had already agreed to draft it as such. Is that so difficult for you to understand, so stop with your propaganda, because you will not get another AP type of offer? It cannot happen post 2004. That's the reality, so accept it or look like an idiot trying to convince others in trying otherwise.

As for an agreed partition for land, forget it, because Turkey will not agree to it, USA will not agree to it, the UK will not agree to it, the EU will not agree to it and neither will the RoC, which leaves just you few thousand fascists Neopartitionist, and in the scheme of things, you are nothing but a flea on a elephants ass. All you are are just a nuisance, that's all.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you, you have proved my point about how much power the federal structure will have over the states which you handed to the GCs on a plate. I rest my case.

No, thank you, for proving to us that the Annan Plan was a racist, non Democratic, Human Rights violation, against International law and EU Principles which are the reasons why you loved it and who is against True Federation that will stop you from such racist practices. We should ALL thank the GCs for voting "OXI" on the AP for preventing Racists Fascists like VP from violating others Democratic and Human Rights by "raining on VP's AP parade". We rest our case!

No you appear to be confused about what we are discussing changing the goal posts to suit yourself, we are discussing how your plan left the door wide open to GC manipulation and total control of the whole island where as the AP didnt, thats why with the obvious mistrust and lack of commitment to a BBF from both sides should not move towards what we are discussing on another thread which is land for recognition the only real option we have left.

No, no, you are the one who is confused. Under True Federation much like the USA, there is no one group or community in charge of the Federal Government. The people of the USA are in charge of the Federal Government through their representatives in the congress and the senate, which will be the same in Cyprus. Larger state will have more lower house representatives but have equal number of representatives in the upper house as with the smaller state. But this is in the future, because in the beginning, ALL the Federal Laws will be worked out during the negotiations between the TCs and the GCs, just as they were during the AP talks, which you seemed to have agreed to that arrangement already, because you voted for the AP. Once ALL the details have been worked out and the Federal Constitution has been drafted, then it is the product of ALL Cypriots and not the GCs, so stop your childish propaganda by repeating the same rubbish about the GCs running the Federal Government. If you are too stupid to understand how the True Federation works, then say so, so that I won't ridicule you and make you look stupid at every turn, but the truth is, I believe you do understand how True Federation works and that you are just making propaganda, in which case, I will make you look stupid and ridicule you every time. Once the Federal Constitution has been drafted, then the two states can draft their own respected state constitutions, which will not and cannot supersede the Federal Constitution and guidelines. You can run your state in anyway you want as long as it does not violate any of the Federal Governments policies which ALL Cypriots have had already agreed to draft it as such. Is that so difficult for you to understand, so stop with your propaganda, because you will not get another AP type of offer? It cannot happen post 2004. That's the reality, so accept it or look like an idiot trying to convince others in trying otherwise.

As for an agreed partition for land, forget it, because Turkey will not agree to it, USA will not agree to it, the UK will not agree to it, the EU will not agree to it and neither will the RoC, which leaves just you few thousand fascists Neopartitionist, and in the scheme of things, you are nothing but a flea on a elephants ass. All you are are just a nuisance, that's all.

Who can change federal laws?