Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

This is just the first of a series of conferences. People with diverse views will be participating in those to follow. Regarding the Annan Plan, Papapetrou is clever enough to know that it is history. It cannot be brought back. Simply, the next plan will not be as good as the Annan Plan in the same way the Annan Plan was not as good as the previous one. You see Pyrpolyser, brave words (or deeds) cannot save the day, and Cyprus. Reality is harsher and the sooner we accept this the more we can save.

You are right that each plan prepared by foreigners was worse than the previous one. The reason was always very simple. They were preparing plans on orders. Give them the chance they will prepare a worse one than the Anan Plan.So when you talk for a new "plan" you have to distinguish whether that will be imposed or found through negotiations.
Imo there will not be any new plan or if you like we will not accept foreign imposed new plans. We already learned our lesson.

My friend you have to understand that Cyprus has been invaded, occupied and colonized by Turkey by 37% of it's territory. We do not have the power to save anything, but we do have the power to increase the cost of our loss, and we do have the power to bet our very last chance for ever. But i do not agree with you in exchanging what's left for nothing. And i don't think anyone is really brave by doing the same. Unless of course you consider brave people those who commit suicide

[Pyrpolizer]

Furthermore these bi-communal groups who have this naive attitude of blaming equally both sides as a means of keeping them together as a group make me sick. I totally disagree that both sides are to blame. It is by 99% the Turkish side and their local puppets that are to blame. Christofias is doing his very best under THESE circumstances.

And I believe its 99.9% the GC fault for being greedy arrogant and despot towards finding solution which is not their real priority how could it be they have everything they want.

Oh yes, half the Kypreos being refugees, having lost everything 30 years back today have everything they want. On what planet are you living VP? Oh sorry I forgot you are living at the TrashNcan moon,where you said it "YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU EVER WANTED."

[Bananiot]

I find it hard to follow your rationale Pyrpolyser. You are now insinuating that all 13 plans that were put infront of us since 1947 and which we outrightly rejected, were unacceptable because foreigners designed and proposed them. This is incredible because on a number of occasions we sat with Denktash, before 1974, and reached an agreement only for Makarios to reject it. Then, after our demise, we placed our hopes on the UN and the EU for a solution and begged for them to help us out. Now, you think that it is possible for us to simply tell them to mind their own business and sit with the TC's (without the involvement of Turkey) and find a solution to our liking. Truly amazing!

[Pyrpolizer]

I find it hard to follow your rationale Pyrpolyser. You are now insinuating that all 13 plans that were put infront of us since 1947 and which we outrightly rejected, were unacceptable because foreigners designed and proposed them. This is incredible because on a number of occasions we sat with Denktash, before 1974, and reached an agreement only for Makarios to reject it. Then, after our demise, we placed our hopes on the UN and the EU for a solution and begged for them to help us out. Now, you think that it is possible for us to simply tell them to mind their own business and sit with the TC's (without the involvement of Turkey) and find a solution to our liking. Truly amazing!

I was actually referring to the plans after 1974. They were not biased just because foreigners made them but because they were all triggered by the Anglo-Americans to serve whose interests do you think? As for the UN just think that 90% of it's budget comes from the Americans.
The EU is NOT the Anglo-Americans. In fact the Anglo-Americans are working for the destruction of the EU...

[kurupetos]

B., how many of those 13 plans included a unitary solution plan, without constitutional & territiorial divisions, and foreign SBAs?

[Bananiot]

You are making coffee shop style sweeping statements Pyrpolyser (the Anglo-Americans are working for the destruction of the EU...) and in all honesty, such a distorted view of the world, if it is indeed reflected by those that govern us too, explain pretty well our predicament.

Kurupetos, all plans prior to 1974 were for a unitary state. After 1974, Makarios opted for federation as the only feasible solution that could prevent partition. Since then, successive governments of Kyprianou, Vasiliou, Klerides, Papadopoulos and Christofias have reiterted our position for BBF.

[Kikapu]

You are making coffee shop style sweeping statements Pyrpolyser (the Anglo-Americans are working for the destruction of the EU...) and in all honesty, such a distorted view of the world, if it is indeed reflected by those that govern us too, explain pretty well our predicament.

Kurupetos, all plans prior to 1974 were for a unitary state. After 1974, Makarios opted for federation as the only feasible solution that could prevent partition. Since then, successive governments of Kyprianou, Vasiliou, Klerides, Papadopoulos and Christofias have reiterted our position for BBF.

Bananiot, was that "BBF" going to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International laws and the EU Principles (since 2004) or was it going to be based on the contrary, like the Annan Plan (disguised partition) was in 2004, which may be the reason as to why the GCs kept saying "OXI" every time.?

PS. Please do not forget to ask my question to the panel....thanks.

[Bananiot]

All plans are readily available and anyone can read and assess them. I do not know about disguised partition, but I now that right now we are on the brink of real partition. Fot this we are all to blame but I feel the majority has to bear most of the responsibility, for obvious reasons.

[Kikapu]

All plans are readily available and anyone can read and assess them. I do not know about disguised partition, but I now that right now we are on the brink of real partition. Fot this we are all to blame but I feel the majority has to bear most of the responsibility, for obvious reasons.

Well, in that case Bananiot, please don't bother to ask my question to the panel, because what you are saying then is, that if Partition is going to happen anyway, that means that the "trnc" (Turkey) are not ending their Taksim Dreams and do not want a settlement for Cyprus in the 21st century based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International laws and the EU Principles. Just who do you suppose should get the blame if partition should occur then? Those who want what the rest of the EU has with True Democracy, Human Rights, International laws and EU Principles, or those who do not want what the rest of the EU have. Can you then please tell me what is the point of this invite for all those who support EU Principles for Cyprus, if a settlement won't be based on those same EU Principles, but on something as funky as the 2004 Annan Plan, which would have had the same effect that you are now talking about, the partition that is about to happen now, only it would have happened back in 2004 with far worse consequences for the rest of the majority of Cypriots, both TCs and GCs alike?

[Pyrpolizer]

All plans are readily available and anyone can read and assess them. I do not know about disguised partition, but I now that right now we are on the brink of real partition. Fot this we are all to blame but I feel the majority has to bear most of the responsibility, for obvious reasons.

Well, in that case Bananiot, please don't bother to ask my question to the panel, because what you are saying then is, that if Partition is going to happen anyway, that means that the "trnc" (Turkey) are not ending their Taksim Dreams and do not want a settlement for Cyprus in the 21st century based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International laws and the EU Principles. Just who do you suppose should get the blame if partition should occur then? Those who want what the rest of the EU has with True Democracy, Human Rights, International laws and EU Principles, or those who do not want what the rest of the EU have. Can you then please tell me what is the point of this invite for all those who support EU Principles for Cyprus, if a settlement won't be based on those same EU Principles, but on something as funky as the 2004 Annan Plan, which would have had the same effect that you are now talking about, the partition that is about to happen now, only it would have happened back in 2004 with far worse consequences for the rest of the majority of Cypriots, both TCs and GCs alike?

Thank God there is someone who can follow Bananiot's logic without getting mad, or losing track of what he had to say...
Bravo reh Kiks