Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

In part this is a reply to the "what do we want" question asked in another thread.

Well so far at the talks, as per the previous Anan Scam, CYs are mostly ain't gonna get they want, CY is heading towards what others want, to a BBF settlement that if Turkey gets it way will be full of derogations, limits, conditions, time frames etc etc... and a convoluted and unworkable, unsustainable mess of a scheme that would be open to challenges in the Human Rights courts, and one that if it isn't Partition in practise, will be, as we've said time and time again, one very small step away from it.

Now let me say boys and girls that if we could avoid a BBF now or at any other time, so much the better, but, but ... BUT it not only appears in all those UN resolutions of years ago, ones that have held us in such good stead over the years, it remains the will of the international community, and is also expressed time and time again at the end of CY Presidents' speeches on the matter of reunification. So given these facts, we are pissing in the wind to oppose it in principle. Again say, wish it were otherwise, but it ain't... and my trousers are getting very wet.

The challenge imho must be to ensure that it is a workable BBF scheme that CYs, and CYs alone, would desire, would vote "yes" at ref, by having at its heart the solid foundations of human rights.

Now there are at least three areas of Human Rights within the ECHR that are pertinent to any settlement. You will all be familiar with them (so won't cite the Articles by Chapter and Verse). They are...

The Right To Property,
The Right To Home and
The Right To Freedom of Movement

... and these form some of the basis for human rights the world over, and they also represent the Will of the International Community, in much the same way as it is their Will for a CY BBF-based settlement.

So, when on July 7, Pres X meets Bonky Moon in Geneva, would be sooooo happy to see him insisting that any settlement must respect these rights, and would be even happier that when he, or other CY politicians cite a BBF settlement at the end of their nice little speeches, they insist that it is A Rights Based BBF.

Now say after me please Pres X... " A Rights Based BBF ".

[Pyrpolizer]

Actually it was our own side who pushed the UN to issue a resolution for BBF. That was when Denktash wanted pure clear partition, so to corner Denktash once again Klerides did that.

The very concept of BBF however contradicts with human rights and EU principles. Thus the Turkish sides pushes for a BBF which contradicts as much as possible and our side for the opposite. There will never be a solution this way...

[Piratis]

Human Rights should of course be resepcted, but it is not just that. It is also the issues of power sharing, land distribution, freedom etc.

BBF is just a very vague term and a proposal based on BBF can range from very bad (e.g. Annan plan) to easily acceptable. Theoretically, a BBF could even be better than the 1960 agreeemnts.

Our mistake is that while the Turks promote their own version of BBF (which is basically partition) we do nothing to promote a version of BBF that would be easily acceptable by most GCs. This mistake was made repeatedly because we wrongly assumed that a decent solution could come out of the negotiotions and we made one compromise after another. The fact is that the Turkish side has no interest in accepting anything less than partition and therefore any and all negotiations are doomed to fail.

We need to realize that under the current balance of power there is no chance in a billion for a real solution, and therefore adjust our policies accordingly aiming to position ourselves in the best possible way for a long term struggle, instead of making stupid compromises that only help the Turks in their stradegy to officially partition Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

Its the Gcs who do not want a solution, its all or nothing and they do not accept us as an equal community.

[Piratis]

During the last 50+ years we have made more compromises to your 18% minority than any other majority in any other country has done.

But thank you for comfirming what I already said. That all these compromises that we made mean nothing to you and that you will accept nothing short of partition. Therefore it was a stupid mistake from our side to do all those compomises.

[humanist]

bill

ow there are at least three areas of Human Rights within the ECHR that are pertinent to any settlement. You will all be familiar with them (so won't cite the Articles by Chapter and Verse). They are...

The Right To Property,
The Right To Home and
The Right To Freedom of Movement

This the the only basis for a democracy and Cypriots deserve this democratic Country just as much as every one else. Soon the world will get tired of the unrealist and racist demands of the TC's.

[Pyrpolizer]

Its the Gcs who do not want a solution, its all or nothing and they do not accept us as an equal community.

You role in here is to spread lies or nonsense or both.The above was both

[bill cobbett]

Let's not allow VP to derail the thread with the usual lazy and unhelpful and rubbish one-liners boys and girls.

Yes, deliberately stayed away from matters of Governance, which will leave to to the CF experts Kiks and RW; and away from Territory which will leave to the likes of the late Kifeas. Both matters that are open to negotiation.

Guess what am trying to find is the dividing line between Entitlement and Negotiation in that it isn't a matter of what people want, but what they are entitled to, in three of the ECHR articles. Also pertinent are such things as collective rights, even though these aren't as well defined as individual human rights, or on to the rights of citizens of sovereign nations for self-determination, on to the sovereignty of nations, for effective says in government etc.

All the above, like human rights, are matters of undeniable and uncompromisable entitlement, ones that ain't open to negotiation.

Also saying that if the international community places such stress on a BBF, it must do so in ways that respects the human rights legislation that each and every member state of the UN has ratified at national level. The Great Powers can't have their cake and eat it as well, so to speak.

[Viewpoint]

During the last 50+ years we have made more compromises to your 18% minority than any other majority in any other country has done.

But thank you for comfirming what I already said. That all these compromises that we made mean nothing to you and that you will accept nothing short of partition. Therefore it was a stupid mistake from our side to do all those compomises.

Total rubbish you are a typical brainwashed GC.

[Viewpoint]

bill

ow there are at least three areas of Human Rights within the ECHR that are pertinent to any settlement. You will all be familiar with them (so won't cite the Articles by Chapter and Verse). They are...

The Right To Property,
The Right To Home and
The Right To Freedom of Movement

This the the only basis for a democracy and Cypriots deserve this democratic Country just as much as every one else. Soon the world will get tired of the unrealist and racist demands of the TC's.

or the GC greed and intrangience.