Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

So back to the topic ... If you think that it is not a problem that in the shops most devices sold come with 2-pin plugs and you don't mind using adapters or changing the plug every time, (it is a problem, no-one here has said otherwise, but it's a problem that shouldn't exist) then good for you. If you think that this is a problem but that the solution is for Cyprus government to force the importers to import devices with 3-pin plugs (So who else's problem is it to solve?? I'll say this once again, there is an existing statutory EU regulation, that is in place and enforced by all the major European Countries, ...And guess what, ...no non-standard appliance problems and the answer to all your problems !!!) then you should realize that this will force the prices of those devices up. (Totally 110% WRONG!!) If the importers could import devices with 3-pin plugs for the same price as they do for the 2-pin plugs (That's the point, they CAN and DO!!) then there is no reason why they would import the devices with 2-pin plugs to Cyprus. (There is, .... it's called fleecing customers by buying GREY goods at a knock down price and charging the appliance full price) What I believe is the best solution is for Cyprus to gradually change the system to make it compatible with what they use in most Europe and many other parts of the world. (At a cost of 100's of millions and at the end of the day, ...for no real gain to anyone!!!) New houses can be build with the new system while old houses will just continue using the old system just as they do now. (Sounds very simple, alas Unfortunately, ....it just doesn't work that way, ...AND it would be almost impossible to implement) There is really nothing more to add to this topic (There was nothing more to add pages ago, but your not the type to listen to sound argument are you) and I hope some people will not try to turn it personal again ... but if they do then they will get the appropriate response

I have been a Chartered Electrical Engineer for 30+ years, a Registered Engineer in Cyprus for 9 years, working mostly overseas with most of the internationally recognised electrical standards. So i think i'm qualified enough to tell you, like it or not, ...That you are Wrong in everything you have posted/stated in this thread. That's not trying to be Nasty, that is based on Engineering facts, and plain hard Real World ''Truths!!!!''....

Most of what I wrote are basic facts (e.g. that most devices sold in Cyprus come with 2 pin plugs) and issues which are related with Politics and Economics, none of which you are qualified to talk about and yet you pretend to be an expert in everything. Lets start with the economics: The aim of every business is to maximize its profits and in Cyprus we have a free market so a business is free to set the prices on the products they sell. You can call it "fleecing customers" but this will happen regardless of what plug the device has. If the importer is forced to buy a device at a more expensive price then it is certain that this extra cost will be passed to the consumer! Economics is obviously not your forte so stop making a fool of yourself by arguing against basic principles Now lets talk about the part of the topic where you are supposedly an expert. If you are an Electrical Engineering expert I would expect from you to explain to us why gradually changing the system would cost millions and it would be almost impossible. From the website CBBB posted earlier I can see that there are many countries which use several different kind of sockets. For example both Gibraltar and Isle of Man use both C and G type of sockets and according to the same website in the occupied part of Cyprus they use both G and F type of sockets. So stop the personal attacks and pretending to be an expert in economics and make yourself useful by explaining why it is impossible to have what they apparently have in Gibraltar or Isle of Man. When you do this then I will thank you for offering a positive contribution in my topic... because so far you offered nothing at all

1) May I ask what makes you think you are any more qualified than, say Larnacaman, to discuss the politice and economics of three pin plugs as against two pin plugs

2) If the political issue simply revolves around whether or not the system was introduced by previous rulers then that on its own is in my view not a very good argumemnt. The only argument should be is if in the intervening period something new has emerged which offers subtantially better technical and safety advantages and that should not be a politcal but a technical issue.

The continetal system offers no advantages: would you be happy to have a system which makes it easier for a small child to poke an object into the Live socket, with possibe fatal consequences, something which is not so easy with the UK style of socket.

The big political issue might be if there is rule which prohibits the importation and sale of items with the continetal style plug, then why is it not enforced? However with the Cyprus Governement's known record on following safety rules (with the tragic consequnces for 13 people if not the whole economy) the Governmnet's ability to act for the safety of the people is very much open to question.

3) The economics issue should be secondary to the technical and safety issue. In any event here I doubt the cost of making appliances with UK stsyle three pin appliance is much more costly than making one with a continetal style plug: In that respect the chances are the leads as fitted are made by specialist factories and bought in by the makers of the appliance and it is them simply a case of the factory taking the right lead off the shelf.

Is there however any electrical retailer out there who can provide any fair comparison examples which may show a price difference of like for like products but for the Plug? With millions of appliances sold in the UK every year the appliances are certainly available, and often a lot cheaper than in Cyprus. Can any retailers otherwise explain why they stock two pin items when most people need a three pin equipped item? Let's hear it from the horses mouth?

[Sotos]

1) May I ask what makes you think you are any more qualified than, say Larnacaman, to discuss the politice and economics of three pin plugs as against two pin plugs

I studied both subjects in university. I am not an expert but at least I understand the basic principles while larnacaman seems that he does not.

2) If the political issue simply revolves around whether or not the system was introduced by previous rulers then that on its own is in my view not a very good argumemnt.

This was not my argument I just pointed out that this system was introduced by the British not because this by itself made the system worst but because this explains why we are using this system in Cyprus even though a different system would be better. If we did have a choice then one could make the argument that experts in Cyprus evaluated all systems and decided that the British system was the best one for Cyprus. Such argument can not be made. We have this system because we were a British colony not because we specifically chose it.

The continetal system offers no advantages: would you be happy to have a system which makes it easier for a small child to poke an object into the Live socket, with possibe fatal consequences, something which is not so easy with the UK style of socket.

Are there any statistically significant safety differences in countries that use different sockets? I asked this before but got no answer.

The big political issue might be if there is rule which prohibits the importation and sale of items with the continetal style plug, then why is it not enforced? However with the Cyprus Governement's known record on following safety rules (with the tragic consequnces for 13 people if not the whole economy) the Governmnet's ability to act for the safety of the people is very much open to question.

They "why" is economics. The safety issue could be resolved by changing to the continental system. Unless you insist that the whole Europe except UK and Ireland are unsafe.

3) The economics issue should be secondary to the technical and safety issue. In any event here I doubt the cost of making appliances with UK stsyle three pin appliance is much more costly than making one with a continetal style plug: In that respect the chances are the leads as fitted are made by specialist factories and bought in by the makers of the appliance and it is them simply a case of the factory taking the right lead off the shelf.

Is there however any electrical retailer out there who can provide any fair comparison examples which may show a price difference of like for like products but for the Plug? With millions of appliances sold in the UK every year the appliances are certainly available, and often a lot cheaper than in Cyprus. Can any retailers otherwise explain why they stock two pin items when most people need a three pin equipped item? Let's hear it from the horses mouth?

The only logical explanation I can find is because it costs them less or a device with 3-pins is just not readily available to them. What else could it be? I don't know why it costs them less but this just seems to be the case. One possible explanation is that the importer is the same one that imports for Greece. Ordering in larger quantities means getting lower prices from the manufacturer. If importers had to import just for the small Cyprus market then their costs would be higher. This also explains why this is not an issue for the UK which is a big market. In some cases it is also possible that devices that have manuals in Greek are packaged only with 2-pin plugs.