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What Does Papadopoulos really want?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:55 am

How can you overcome the issue that your view of true unification is totally different from that of those people you have to agree it with. So in your opinion you should have a plan knowing that TCs will vote No?

Unification and partition are opposite things. Those that want partition, like you, will not be satisfied with any kind of true unification.
As I said many times an independent Cyprus is the compromise. The majority of TCs now believe that they can take more on the expense of GCs. When the balance of power will change that belief will change also.

I persoanlly dont have a problem with waiting for what you suggest a change in power vs recognition of the TRNC which ever comes first.

When the balance of power will change if there is a recognized "TRNC" will simply make things a bit harder, but it will not change anything. However the best you can expect is that north Cyprus will become a disputed area with some countries recognizing the "TRNC" and others the sovereignty of RoC over the whole island. This again would mean that who will keep north Cyprus is the one who has the power. Therefore recognized or not, when the balance of power shifts thats the end of "TRNC".

it seems the only person that seems to ignore this fact is Piratis

Bananiot, Papadopoulos was elected from the first round by the majority of Greek Cypriots. The biggest power that supported him was AKEL, the left wing party. So apparently it is not just piratis that ignores this "fact".
The truth is that you are very upset that you lost power after 10 years of ruling Cyprus and you are now trying to brake the coolision between AKEL and DIKO (the party of Papadopoulos) so you can gain power again.

However your tactics have failed miserably. The left wing supporters of AKEL do not buy your "facts", and if you hoped that by creating a bad image of Papadopoulos abroad would make us not to vote for him again you are mistaken. The only thing you manage to do is to harm your own country and absolutely nothing more.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:42 am

Piratis

When the balance of power will change that belief will change also.

Therefore recognized or not, when the balance of power shifts thats the end of "TRNC".


You hold on to your dream and wait, if thats what you think will happen.

We will never again live together as long as our ideals are so far apart and no trust exists between us.
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Postby Bananiot » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:26 am

Piratis, it is getting very frustrating talking with you. You create your own daemons and you fight them. I challenge anyone to prove that anything I wrote in my previous post about Papadopoulos is wrong. The circumstances under which AKEL chose him as its candidate are well known. He was imposed from the top (Christofias/Katsourides) to the voters of AKEL and let me predict that one day, sooner than later, they will apologise to their faithful for this despicable act.

What is pathetic about your attitute is that, instead of trying to contradict what I wrote with concrete evidence, you try to interprete my post, by saying that I behave in this way because ... I lost power! I thing your losing something more important than power (sic).
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Postby Piratis » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:30 am

Bananiot, you are the one who makes the accusations and then you expect from me to provide the "concrete evidence"? Concrete evidence for what? For something that never happened?

Instead of throwing mud why all these years you didn't sent Papadopoulos to the court and give your "evidence" there?

Remember: "Everybody is innocent until proven otherwise". It seems for you "Everybody is guilty until proven otherwise" so Papadopoulos is guilty until I prove that he is not????

If you have an opinion about Papadopoulos this is your right. However people should know that your opinion about Papadopoulos is one thing and the facts are another.
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Postby Alexios » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:28 am

Piratis wrote:Bananiot, you are the one who makes the accusations and then you expect from me to provide the "concrete evidence"? Concrete evidence for what? For something that never happened?

Instead of throwing mud why all these years you didn't sent Papadopoulos to the court and give your "evidence" there?

Remember: "Everybody is innocent until proven otherwise". It seems for you "Everybody is guilty until proven otherwise" so Papadopoulos is guilty until I prove that he is not????

If you have an opinion about Papadopoulos this is your right. However people should know that your opinion about Papadopoulos is one thing and the facts are another.


Papadopoulos is simply the wrong man at the right time.I dont for a minute doubt his intelligince,patriotism or intellectual ability.He did and does what he is certain is right for his people..but so did and does another intelligent,patriotic and intellectual man,his exhellency Mr R.Denktash..:))
He drug on the problem for 30 years whilst Papadopoullos will do his best to drug it on for another 30.Thank God AKEL decided very late that "the man has changed" so he will not,due to age,have so much time....though i am afraid he has done enough harm anyway...
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Postby Bananiot » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:31 am

My so called accusations have been thoroughly substantiated by Makarios Drousiotis in his books. The truth can also be seen by reading the articles written by Papadopoulos in the magazine "Egertireion Salpisma" where he "explains" why he ordered the killing of the leftists. These magazines may be found at the PIO and the offices of the EOKA Fighters's Association in Nicosia. They are there for all to see.

If these were slanderous lies, as you would so conveniently want to believe, then the lawer Papadopoulos would have sued everyone concerned for all their worth. He has kept his mouth shut in the face of all relevations, like he did when he collected money from the CIA to fight the left. He is also a renoun liar, like when he declared in all honesty that from 1963 to 1974 not a single TC soul fell victim to GC terrorism.

Why are you so afraid of the truth Piratis? Don't you know that if you really care for your country you must not be scared of the truth? Don't you know that only truth serves the national interests?

Well, I might as well talk to the brick wall. A hopeless case ...
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Postby BirKibrisli » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:31 pm

Bananiot,thank you for your kind encouragement in a previous post.
Whatever the truth about Papadopoulos is,he is certainly not trusted by TCs.Their opinion of him is closer to yours than to Piratis'.Hence I am afraid we have a problem.The essential ingredient in a just solution is Trust between the two communities. This will not happen while Papa is in charge.The other negative sign is that Talat is fast becoming another Denktash,parroting the older man's ideas more and more.Some TCs are becoming disillusioned about a solution while Talat is in charge,and he is going to be there for a long time it seems.In the meantime,suffer the poor Cypriots... :x
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Postby Piratis » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:38 pm

My so called accusations have been thoroughly substantiated by Makarios Drousiotis in his books.


Books and fairy tales are written every day. People are not convicted by writing books. If you had any real evidence you would have sent him to court long time ago. Why you did not?

As for the CIA, it is very obvious who is taking directions from them to serve the interests of those foreigners and who is going against the interests of the US.

Whatever the truth about Papadopoulos is,he is certainly not trusted by TCs.


Birkibrisli, this is the result of the mud campaign done by some. However as you understand the only way not to have this mud campaign is to have as a president somebody that is likable by the USA (which means somebody from the far right Disi party that Bananiot supports).

Personally I am not a Papadopoulos supporter and I wouldn't mind somebody else from the center left alliance. However the aim of Disi is to brake this alliance and this will not happen. Papadopoulos might not be the best, but he is way better than anybody from Disi. He is the "lesser of two evils"
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Postby Bananiot » Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:42 pm

When Piratis has no arguments he resorts to slander as usual. I have never been a member of DISI and have never supported the social nationalists of EDEK nor the divisionists of DIKO. Since birth I have been an internationalist that grew up with the humane ideals of the most progressive left aspirations. Equally I detest the stalinist approach but always I avoid labels and the static positions in this changing world we live in. Piratis can keep his Papadopoulos there is no envy here. When it came to choosing between Klerides and Papadopoulos I had no hesitation to choose Klerides because a hard line nationalist like Papadopoulos can never lead us to a solution. The remnants of EOKA B and the unrepended coupists chose Papadopoulos and Piratis can also keep his newly found friends.
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:17 pm

Bananiot wrote:
For a start, EOKA B members came from the ranks of what Piratis calls the original EOKA. Turkish Cypriots were killed by the "original" EOKA but, many more GC's were killed by the murdering fiends who got their orders directly from a person using the pseudonym "Defkalion". This person was Papadopoulos and this is amptly documented and it seems the only person that seems to ignore this fact is Piratis who refuses to take off the blindfolds when it comes to Papadopoulos.

He is also the only living person I know who conveniently does not know that Papadopoulos was the author of the Akritas plan that aimed at cleansing Cyprus of the TC community had our TC compatriots resisted the glorious path to enosis.

To claim that Papadopoulos has never been involved in the military part of EOKA is beyond imagination. The families of the left wing Greek Cypriots who were brutally murdered on his orders are still struggling to clear the names of their loved ones. There is still much anguish and grief, 47 years on ...


The Liar and the hypocrite of the forum has stricken again!

Bananiot is a liar because he claims that Papadopoullos ordered the execution of people during the “original” EOKA. Such a claim is totally unsubstantiated. It is true that “Defkalion” or Papadopoullos, as a youth, was engaged in the political section of the EOKA struggle and was involved in the propaganda war and more specifically with the publication of a pro-EOKA editorial of those times. To this end, he was required through this editorial to justify or rationalise or explain those rightful or wrongful killings, under the pre-text of treason. He did not order the killings himself, nor he ever participated personally in any such killings. This role was attributed to Grivas and the regional captains of EOKA.

Bananiot is a Liar because he claims that Papadopoullos was the author of the Akritas plan. The author of the Akritas plan was Policarpos Yiorgagis, then minister of interior, was also retained the name Akritas. Klerides and Papadopoullos were second and third in command of this organisation that undertook the promotion and implementation of the plan. Papadopoullos was not the author, as Bananiot claims.

Bananiot is a liar because he claims that the Akritas plan was a plan that aimed at the cleansing of the TC community from Cyprus. The Akritas plan was a plan purely aiming at diminishing the separate privileged constitutional rights of the TC community, essentially through the use of political means and tactics and fabricated propaganda, primarily aiming at influencing the international diplomatic and public opinion. The Akritas plan did not foresee and did not incorporate attacks on the TC community, in order to annihilate it and thus achieve its goals. The Akritas plan did not assume unprovoked or unilateral attacks against the TC community, in order to bring it to capitulation and /or surrender. The Akritas plan foresaw the use of violence against TMT and any other TC extremists, only as a reaction to initiated TC violence that would have aimed to the creation of a chaotic situation in Cyprus in order to provoke the intervention of Turkey.

Here is the full text of the Akritas plan for everyone to read and extract their own conclusions.
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/akritas_plan.htm

Bananiot often accuses Papadopoullos to be a psychotic Turk hater. This is also another one of his many lies in this forum. This is what MARTIN PACKARD, a British officer who was sent in Cyprus during the period of early 1964 to participate in the British peacekeeping force after the intercommunal violence erupted, said about Papadopoullos.

“The events of early 1964 have never been clearly explained to the Cypriot public and have been grossly distorted by foreign commentators. The truth about them is essentially unifying rather than divisive. The mediating process then, which came close to success, depended on two men, Tassos Papadopoulos and Fazil Kutchuk. Each was a Cypriot nationalist, rather than a Greek or Turkish one; but each was prepared to seek a new and workable partnership. Maybe it was a recoil from the abyss but no snide belittlement can alter the fact of what. they achieved, or sought to achieve, during the period that I was working with them. The conquering of violence and the survival of a great number of Turkish Cypriots stemmed from that co-operation and from the conciliatory efforts that were spearheaded by Papadopoulos: I say this not because of friendship or respect but as a witness to events in which I was involved.”

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=18762&archive=1

Bananiot is a hypocrite because he pushes aside and hides completely the role and responsibility of Glavkos Klerides, then minister of justice, second in command of the Akritas organisation and 15 years older than Papadopoullos. (Papadopoullos had been only 28 years old when the Akritas plan was drafted.) Bananiot was and is a fervent supporter of Klerides politics and a supporter of his government for the previous 10 years before Papadopoullos. He never criticised Klerides then and he never criticises him now, in this forum. He always supported his (Klerides) choices together with the political party that Bananiot is a member of, and which had formed a collision government with him for 10 years. For 10 years he never said a word against the Akritas plan and Klerides role in it. For the 10 years that his party was part of Klerides government, him and his party never asked Klerides, who also acted after 1974 as the political Houser of the “EOKA B” boys, to give an account or resign due to his involvement in the Akritas organisation. Now, because others are in power, he remembers every day the Akritas plan and the relationship of Papadopoullos to it.
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