Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

The previews two presidents of RoC (Cleredes and Vassiliou) made the mistake to make compromises that were way beyond what the majority of Greek Cypriots would accept without getting anything in return.
Papadopoulos is trying to reverse this.

I believe his aim is that the solution will be a modified RoC rather than anything related to the Annan plan or similar kind of plans. Would Talad be willing to make discussions on this base?

Personally I don't agree that time matters that much. How much time it took Turkey to occupy 1/3rd of Cyprus? Did it matter for them that for 3500 years the great majority of the population of that 1/3rd of Cyprus were Greek Cypriots?

So in your opinion Papadop is going back on what his previous administrations have agreed with us? and this is ok? we should trust such such mentality? this is a prime example of why we cannot trust you, hidden agendas and underhand tactics to achieve maximum demands unfortunately for us we are not as devious as your leaders.

With regards to the time issue I personally dont have a problem either and your mentality and viewpoint just adds to why I am not concerned. We can wait forever but new generations will not even remember their ancestral homes or want to return.

[Viewpoint]

Its the power game, his priority is to stay in power not to solve the Cyprus issue, his politics are purely related to the EU leverage card to extract as many concessions from Turkey therefore leaving Talat on the sidelines. Anyone really interested in a solution would have been back at the negotiating table long ago hammering it out with TCs but Papadop has opted for the safe haven of the EU whoch will not last forever and I personally feel that the GCs current policies will backfire and leave the "RoC" with no leverage over Turkey, Cyprus for the EU is a headache and one that keeps reoccuring they will have to take then necessary pill to get rid of that heache one day

Nonsense! A paragraph with no full stop but full of nonsense, ignorance slogans and passion! Papadopoullos is not interested in coming to the negotiating table but Talat is full of eagerness and interest! As if is not Talat the one that declared Papadopoullos proposals for changes in the UN plan “a none-starter,” only 3 months ago!

Apologies, didnt realize this was an English test . Is your problem with me personally? calling me ignorant does not really help anyone to understand the others point of view. If you dont like what I am saying you can just disagree or ignore it. Whos hand is constantly in the air and asking for meetings? who wont meet socially? or with no agenda? we have to start somewhere.
Its obvious Papadop is waiting to play the EU card against Turkey and will at every turn try to extract what GCs want, we will all see how successful this will be.

Papadopoullos has asked in numerous occasions to have a meeting with Erdogan, even under a social (informal) context. Erdogan and Turkey refused blatantly. Talat not only did not facilitate such a meeting but every time such an eventuality came near, he publicly opposed to it, saying that this is something that should never happen because it will undermine the Turkish /TC thesis on the whole issue of the Cyprus problem and will be negatively received and interpreted by the TC community.

Why a social meeting with Talat is important and I agree it is, but a meeting with Erdogan is such an anathema? Turkey doesn’t recognize the RoC, but so does RoC the “TRNC.”

Yet, Papadopoullos and the GC’s do not go around crying and making it such an issue, like Talat, the rest of the TC leadership and you, do all the time.

So now Papdop is talking to no one, is that ok with you? Talat is our leader like it or not, does you electorate also include naturalized Pontians and other foreigners?
Papadop and the GCs go around chanting (crying as you put it) land land land if theres no dialogue between our communities then you have no chance of any type of solution, so our crying does in fact support a solution for all Cypriots, is that a bad thing?

[Piratis]

So in your opinion Papadop is going back on what his previous administrations have agreed with us?

No. They didn't agree anything. They didn't sign anything. Here we have democracy. To agree on anything we have to be asked and give our approval. Until then nothing is agreed. However Cleredes and Vassiliou had made compromises that allowed things that were way beyond what the GCs would accept to appear in the Annan plan. Now Papadopoulos aim is to reverse that so the next time that a referendum comes it will be one that the majority of GCs can accept.

With regards to the time issue I personally dont have a problem either and your mentality and viewpoint just adds to why I am not concerned. We can wait forever but new generations will not even remember their ancestral homes or want to return.

This is what you think. I was born long after 74 and my family is not even refugees. We will not forget, don't hope for that.

[Viewpoint]

So in your opinion Papadop is going back on what his previous administrations have agreed with us?

No. They didn't agree anything. They didn't sign anything. Here we have democracy. To agree on anything we have to be asked and give our approval. Until then nothing is agreed. However Cleredes and Vassiliou had made compromises that allowed things that were way beyond what the GCs would accept to appear in the Annan plan. Now Papadopoulos aim is to reverse that so the next time that a referendum comes it will be one that the majority of GCs can accept.

With regards to the time issue I personally dont have a problem either and your mentality and viewpoint just adds to why I am not concerned. We can wait forever but new generations will not even remember their ancestral homes or want to return.

This is what you think. I was born long after 74 and my family is not even refugees. We will not forget, don't hope for that.

This will of course seal the TCs OXI and we will be back to where we are now stalemate. You have to get rid of Papadop he will lead you around in circles and get you nowhere, when will your realize this 2 3 8 years??

You are a rareity and I dont really have a problem with you or any other young GCs forgetting, they can remember and wait and wait and wait and argue like their fathers and pass on the same ideas to their offspring for them to also wait.

[Piratis]

This will of course seal the TCs OXI and we will be back to where we are now stalemate. You have to get rid of Papadop he will lead you around in circles and get you nowhere, when will your realize this 2 3 8 years??

The TCs that want partition will not vote yes for any plan for a true unification. This is obvious. This doesn't mean that we should accept partition so those TCs will vote "yes". We will not.

You are a rareity and I dont really have a problem with you or any other young GCs forgetting, they can remember and wait and wait and wait and argue like their fathers and pass on the same ideas to their offspring for them to also wait.

I don't know what you mean by "rareity" but if what you mean is that it is rare that people that were born after the invasion want to return to the land of their ancestors then you are simply mistaken.

Sure, we will wait. However as you know the balance of power and the interests of the powers change constantly. So you shouldn't feel so safe living in an illegal pseudo state that legally is part of RoC and legally RoC has the right to reclaim this land.

[BirKibrisli]

In my opinion,treating the symptoms will not cure the illness which has befallen Cyprus. We need to shift the whole reference points and get away from the mistakes of the past.One of the mistakes of the past is Papadopoulos refusing to meet with Talat (I am not sure if he has ever met Denktash while the later was still in office).While I agree with Piratis that Talat's hands are largely tied behind his back,the message that such a meeting would give to TCs is:"we respect your choice as President,and we care what happens to you as our fellow citizens.we know you don't trust us,and are afraid of becoming an oppressed minority in a united Cyprus,but we will talk and socialise with you till we learn to trust each other."
Papadopoulos has to realise that he cannot solve the problem by talking to Erdogan even if Erdogan agreed to talk with him.Erdogan is caught between a rock (The Army) and a hard place(public opinion in Turkey).His hands are tied too,he cannot accept a solution that would look like selling out the TRNC.A solution that will not involve partition can only come about if TCs openly demand it.This is where papadopoulos has to do his work.By refusing to speak to Talat he is only falling into the hands of hatemongers in the North.But perhaps Papadopoulos' hands are tied as well.He is a politician after all.BTW the word in the North is that Papadopoulos was one of the founders of EOKA and the author of the Akritas plan which was designed to bring about the genocide of TCs.Is that right?Or is it just another misinformation?Lets keep thinking positively,people.I hope you are enjoying your summer there.For we are freezing still.

[Piratis]

Birkibrisli, although I doubt that such talks can help much, I don't think they can harm either. Therefore I would agree with you that such meetings could be made.

Regarding Papadopoulos, he was indeed a supporter of the original EOKA which didn't had as an aim the TCs. Don't forget that the original EOKA was supported by the great majority of Greek Cypriots. I don't know if he was one of the founders, but I doubt. Papadopoulos has never been involved with the military part of EOKA.

Unfortunately based on this true base, the people that hate Papadopoulos (some foreigners and those that lost the power of RoC when Papadopoulos took over) started a mud war against him. So what you hear today about Papadopoulos from them is 1% true and 99% lies and baseless accusations.

Therefore it would be more wise to judge him based on his actions as a president and not based on the baseless accusations.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

The TCs that want partition will not vote yes for any plan for a true unification. This is obvious. This doesn't mean that we should accept partition so those TCs will vote "yes". We will not.

How can you overcome the issue that your view of true unification is totally different from that of those people you have to agree it with. So in your opinion you should have a plan knowing that TCs will vote No?

Sure, we will wait. However as you know the balance of power and the interests of the powers change constantly. So you shouldn't feel so safe living in an illegal pseudo state that legally is part of RoC and legally RoC has the right to reclaim this land.

I persoanlly dont have a problem with waiting for what you suggest a change in power vs recognition of the TRNC which ever comes first.

[Bananiot]

Birkibrisli, I should like to congratulate you for your sincere believe in friendship and peace for all Cypriots. I read your posts with interest and find them very refreshing. I should like, however to put the record straight. Piratis wrote:

Regarding Papadopoulos, he was indeed a supporter of the original EOKA which didn't had as an aim the TCs. Don't forget that the original EOKA was supported by the great majority of Greek Cypriots. I don't know if he was one of the founders, but I doubt. Papadopoulos has never been involved with the military part of EOKA.

For a start, EOKA B members came from the ranks of what Piratis calls the original EOKA. Turkish Cypriots were killed by the "original" EOKA but, many more GC's were killed by the murdering fiends who got their orders directly from a person using the pseudonym "Defkalion". This person was Papadopoulos and this is amptly documented and it seems the only person that seems to ignore this fact is Piratis who refuses to take off the blindfolds when it comes to Papadopoulos.

He is also the only living person I know who conveniently does not know that Papadopoulos was the author of the Akritas plan that aimed at cleansing Cyprus of the TC community had our TC compatriots resisted the glorious path to enosis.

To claim that Papadopoulos has never been involved in the military part of EOKA is beyond imagination. The families of the left wing Greek Cypriots who were brutally murdered on his orders are still struggling to clear the names of their loved ones. There is still much anguish and grief, 47 years on ...

[muallim]

Bananiot"]

Regarding Papadopoulos, he was indeed a supporter of the original EOKA which didn't had as an aim the TCs. Don't forget that the original EOKA was supported by the great majority of Greek Cypriots. I don't know if he was one of the founders, but I doubt. Papadopoulos has never been involved with the military part of EOKA.

For a start, EOKA B members came from the ranks of what Piratis calls the original EOKA. Turkish Cypriots were killed by the "original" EOKA but, many more GC's were killed by the murdering fiends who got their orders directly from a person using the pseudonym "Defkalion". This person was Papadopoulos and this is amptly documented and it seems the only person that seems to ignore this fact is Piratis who refuses to take off the blindfolds when it comes to Papadopoulos.

He is also the only living person I know who conveniently does not know that Papadopoulos was the author of the Akritas plan that aimed at cleansing Cyprus of the TC community had our TC compatriots resisted the glorious path to enosis.

To claim that Papadopoulos has never been involved in the military part of EOKA is beyond imagination. The families of the left wing Greek Cypriots who were brutally murdered on his orders are still struggling to clear the names of their loved ones. There is still much anguish and grief, 47 years on ...[/quote]

THANK YOU BANANIOT.