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Turkish FM warns Israel not to repeat 'mistake'

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Postby Paphitis » Sun May 29, 2011 7:51 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
What Australian and American POWs had to endure would make your skin crawl. Today's Japs have no idea about the atrocities committed under the Emperor's name and let me just add, as gruesome as the Germans were, they had nothing on the Japs.

Double standards!


I must disagree with you there: the Japanese never had gas chambers for the planned extermination of entire racial groups, and what the Nazi regime did in Russia and to Russian POW"s was was every bit as bad as what the Japanese did to British POW, with death marches and starvation: My family is short of at least one relative on my wife's side of the family as a result.

This is overloked due to the selective teaching of History in favour the sucess of Western Allies, which often ommits the crititical contribution of the the Soviet union and the cruelties inflicted generally on the various Slavic peoples, or "untermensch" as they were described by the Nazi's.

We Britsh complain about how bad we had it becuase of the Blitz: no doubt it was bad, but we vever had as bad as the occupied countries, of which we have to particularly recall the suffering of the Greeks and their steadfast valiant and often truly herioc resistance to the Nazi's, and what happened in the rest of Eastern Europe.


I was referring to the treatment of POWs.

You see, the Germans never treated POWs in the same way as the Japs, and it can be said, that allied POWs almost had Geneva standards. I was not referring to the holocaust or Nazi treatment of Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, and Russian prisoners. This was a genocide and a different thing all together. It was a disgrace and a War Crime on an unprecedented scale.

I was referring to Australian and American POWs at the hands of the Japanese, the death marches, labour camps, beheadings, and starvations. The Japs were not interested in preserving their lives, but to slowly offer a slow and gruesome death.

I have more to add about this.
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Postby Bananiot » Sun May 29, 2011 8:31 am

I adopted the Japanese flag, Paphitis, in solidarity with the Japanese people as a result of the destruction brought about by the earthquake and the tsunami that followed. For you, this is double standards!! Very weird logic to say the least. Can we really have a meaningful debate with you?

DT, I have no objection, the President can go anywherever he (and his wife) likes. A ten day visit to Australia is extravacant. Australia has very little to offer to Cyprus in terms of political support or bilateral relations. I know Paphitis objects to this but what else can he do? I have no problem either, Cyprus normalises relations with Israel (they have never been normal since the Jews killed ... Jesus). But, you are now talking about interests (just discovered tashinopitta in other words) which should have been our polar star in shaping short term and long term policies. Interests and not vague moral principles Piratis has been going on since time internal.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun May 29, 2011 8:58 am

Bananiot wrote:I adopted the Japanese flag, Paphitis, in solidarity with the Japanese people as a result of the destruction brought about by the earthquake and the tsunami that followed. For you, this is double standards!! Very weird logic to say the least. Can we really have a meaningful debate with you?

DT, I have no objection, the President can go anywherever he (and his wife) likes. A ten day visit to Australia is extravacant. Australia has very little to offer to Cyprus in terms of political support or bilateral relations. I know Paphitis objects to this but what else can he do? I have no problem either, Cyprus normalises relations with Israel (they have never been normal since the Jews killed ... Jesus). But, you are now talking about interests (just discovered tashinopitta in other words) which should have been our polar star in shaping short term and long term policies. Interests and not vague moral principles Piratis has been going on since time internal.


Very little to offer?

You are very naive to say the least. By coming, Cyprus will receive potentially millions in fire fighting aid when needed, and I doubt the visit to Australia cost Cyprus that much.

Furthermore, I wouldn't call Australia a diplomatic minnow. It is a country you would want to have on your side, because it has incredible influence in the UN, US, NATO, and EU.

In fact, Australia plays a far greater role in Cyprus than Germany does.

Solidarity with Japs? That is what Australia did but they still deny WW2 atrocities committed against Australian troops, so much so, that many in the RSL were calling for the Australian Government to not send any aid whatsoever.

Turkey and Japan have something in common!
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Postby Bananiot » Sun May 29, 2011 9:11 am

Like talking to a brick wall. Solidarity with the people of Japan, like solidarity Greece showed with the people of Turkey when they had their destructive earthquake in the 90's. Further to this, you have understood nothing of what I wrote.
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Postby DT. » Sun May 29, 2011 9:16 am

Bananiot wrote:I adopted the Japanese flag, Paphitis, in solidarity with the Japanese people as a result of the destruction brought about by the earthquake and the tsunami that followed. For you, this is double standards!! Very weird logic to say the least. Can we really have a meaningful debate with you?

DT, I have no objection, the President can go anywherever he (and his wife) likes. A ten day visit to Australia is extravacant. Australia has very little to offer to Cyprus in terms of political support or bilateral relations. I know Paphitis objects to this but what else can he do? I have no problem either, Cyprus normalises relations with Israel (they have never been normal since the Jews killed ... Jesus). But, you are now talking about interests (just discovered tashinopitta in other words) which should have been our polar star in shaping short term and long term policies. Interests and not vague moral principles Piratis has been going on since time internal.



If this is all about you and piratis then that's another matter. You just need to make sure you don't contradict yourself too much in your attempt to discredit pirates' views.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun May 29, 2011 10:00 am

Bananiot wrote:Like talking to a brick wall. Solidarity with the people of Japan, like solidarity Greece showed with the people of Turkey when they had their destructive earthquake in the 90's. Further to this, you have understood nothing of what I wrote.


I am all for solidarity Bananiot! And so are you, when you express your views about Turkey, Germany and Japan, who have committed terrible War Crimes in the past, and where one continues to do so to the present day.

However, you do not have the same solidarity for your own people, or to Cyprus because you have stated on many occasions that Cyprus will be punished from now on due to past sins or mistakes against the TCs.

These mistakes I may add, pale into insunficance when compared to the mistakes or crimes committed by Germany, Japan or Turkey, yet we must show solidarity and forgiveness. These much larger countries won't be punished forever. Germany is reunited as you know, and all are free and independent and are functioning nations despite genocide against millions and other War Crimes.

But when it comes to Cyprus, a mere speck on the map, we can only achieve what is "realistic" and future generations must be punished only because a few mistakes were made in the past!

You can ask any German, Australian or Jap what they think of the Annan Plan and whether they would be happy with such a system in their own countries. If Cyprus must be punished, then Germany, Japan and Turkey should never have seen the light of day.

I am all for solidarity Bananiot, also for Cyprus which has been punished long enough and for what! Been punished, even now for something that occured 50 years ago, and for mistakes which can never be compared to those by Germany, Japan or Turkey!
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Postby Bananiot » Sun May 29, 2011 10:05 am

Have you any idea how much territory Germany lost? But, I think it is futile trying to find parallels like this. And, when one states the obvious, why is this lack of solidarity?
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Postby Paphitis » Sun May 29, 2011 10:16 am

Bananiot wrote:Have you any idea how much territory Germany lost? But, I think it is futile trying to find parallels like this. And, when one states the obvious, why is this lack of solidarity?


No it is not futile, just hypocritical on your part.

Just because Cyprus is a minnow, and made a couple of minor mistakes in the past which are insignificant when compared to other crimes committed by larger countries, we must only expect the realistic, and that Cyprus will never be the same ever again as it can expect no fairness or justice as future generations are punished for decades if not forever, in a country with a Constition that is racist in nature, and a political democracy which is not a level playing field for all citizens. This is what Cyprus must accept, because it is realistic and it serves us right! Is that it Bananiot?
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Postby Piratis » Sun May 29, 2011 4:03 pm

Bananiot wrote: Interests and not vague moral principles Piratis has been going on since time internal.


First of all, why did you choose to attack my position in a topic I did not participate, instead of replying to me in our debate in the other thread? Did you hope that I would not see this topic and you would manage to talk crap about me without getting a response?

There are 2 difference between me and you when it comes to interests and moral principles.

1) I support the interests of my country, while you support the interests of Turkey and the AngloAmericans.

2) You support that the national interests of Turkey, UK and USA justify human rights violations and expansionism against other nations. I do not support such thing for any country (even for Cyprus).

What I support is very clear: That each nation should be free and democratic, with respect to the human rights of all its citizens. Each nation also has the right to promote its own interests and work for the improvement of the well being of its citizens, as long as this doesn't come at the expense of the human and democratic rights of people in other nations.
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Postby Lit » Mon May 30, 2011 6:34 pm

Turkish FM chides US over its Israel approach

Sunday, May 29, 2011
DENİZ ZEYREK
ANKARA
Turkey’s Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu says the US’ ‘one-sided’ approach to the Middle East is not the path to solving the problems and easing the tensions and that Israel needs to be treated like any other ordinary country in the region. ‘Only understanding Israel’s concerns cannot result in a solution,’ he says in an interview with daily Radikal
The United States’ “one-sided approach” to the Middle East will bring neither peace nor stability to the region, Turkey’s foreign minister has said, suggesting that the U.S. should recognize Israel merely as an “ordinary nation of the region.”

“There cannot be peace in the Middle East if Israel is seen as a ‘privileged country that is above international law.’ Israel needs to accept being subject to international law as an ordinary nation-state,” Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu told daily Radikal in an interview in the Central Anatolia province of Konya, where the high-profile figure is running for Parliament.

Davutoğlu’s message comes at a time of increased U.S. efforts to prevent Turkey from allowing a new humanitarian aid flotilla to sail for Gaza – something that could precipitate a fresh crisis between Turkey and Israel after the latter’s commandoes killed nine Turkish activists on a flotilla last May.

Full article:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-05-29
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