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[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Your dream that you will somehow manage to win leaving the GCs as the sole loosers from this situation will never materialize

When will you realize that this is not a game no one is trying to win and force someone to lose you have to get beyond this way of thinking. If TC truely believed that GCs were sincere and genuine in their desire to build a truely shared united Cyprus where GCs did not harbour hidden agendas to maintain international recognition and take control of the whole of Cyprus they would be willing to give up the TRNC and unite. But unfortunately for now TCs see GCs as power crazy and money/materialist hungry people with no other aim but reduce TCs into a position of being a minority in their own land. This for us is a barrier which we cannot overcome without your help, the less GC adminisrtation does to disolve our concerns the further we move away from any union, I think GCs have to realize that if they want TCs to move closer to them and further away from Turks they have to take bold moves to improve the standard of living in the north that will in turn prove that GCs have our best interests at heart and that they feel we are all Cypriots with no hidden agendas. Unfortunately this is not the case and over the last year theres has been a hardening towards any union and an increase in the recognized partition solution if GCs want to change this tide they have to be more pro active and encourage Tcs to work with them towards a solution that would make the majority of Cypriots desire reunification.

It is either that non of us wins (= no union AND no partition = what we agreed in 1960) OR that both sides will continue to loose over this conflict.

The status quo will continue, this for us is better than living under a GC state and a minority.

simply reply to people that are trying to put the blame on Greek Cypriots. Greek Cypriots were not innocent, but the last ones to use the past as an excuse for current and future crimes are the TCs and Turks since during our history you have caused much more suffering to us than other way around. So stop using the past as an excuse.

You know my opinion on blame we have discussed it before so I wont repeat myself.
your last words, may I suggest you help us, prove that your mindset has changed and that we will not encounter the same problems. Our looking to the past for excuses is only a reflection on yourselves, you have to help us erase and feel safe in a union with GCs so that we may forget the past your current viewpoint only adds to our past fears and concerns.

Of course you are doing nothing. How can bridges be build when your aim is partition?

Who opened the boarders/ can you kindly tell me what GC administaration is doing they wont even meet with Talat on a social basis, is that what you call building bridges?

There is nothing difficult to understand. I always said that the aim of the majority of TCs is partition. Now is it difficult for you to understand that we will not gift our land to you and that there will be no peace until the occupation of our country is over?

Why do you think partition is the main aim of the majority of TCs? can you honestly answer this question and refrain from saying land land land.

Peace in Cyprus has 2 different meanings for TCs and GCs you have to understand that.

[Piratis]

I now think it is important to acknowledge the past wrongs and try to compensate people wherever we can.Not many in this forum would reject the argument that there have been GC on GC,TC on TC,TC on GC and GC on TC atrocities in the past,not to mention the role of Turkey and Greece and Britain in this tragedy.

I 100% agree. We should accept our wrong doings, put them behind, serve justice if possible, and start something new based on human rights and democracy (and not use the past as an excuse to have a future without human rights again).

If TC truely believed that GCs were sincere and genuine in their desire to build a truely shared united Cyprus where GCs did not harbour hidden agendas to maintain international recognition and take control of the whole of Cyprus they would be willing to give up the TRNC and unite.

Those TCs that want a united Cyprus can see that the majority of Greek Cypriots are sincere. Those that don't want a united Cyprus but partition (you are one of them as you admitted many times) are simply looking for excuses.

But unfortunately for now TCs see GCs as power crazy and money/materialist hungry people with no other aim but reduce TCs into a position of being a minority in their own land.

Who are "power crazy" are those that believe that the 18% of TCs should be given the 50% power. Greek Cypriots do not want any more share in power than what their share in population is.
As for the "money/materialist hungry" I don't know where you base this. Because GCs do not want to gift to you their own land?

I think GCs have to realize that if they want TCs to move closer to them and further away from Turks they have to take bold moves to improve the standard of living in the north that will in turn prove that GCs have our best interests at heart and that they feel we are all Cypriots with no hidden agendas.

RoC has proposed many measures to improve the well being of TCs. However your leadership doesn't care for your wellbeing as much as they care about the recognition of their pseudo state. If your leadership was abandoning the claims of a "TRNC" and they didn't try to exploit the properties that belong to GCs then your wellbeing would have been 100 times better with the full support of RoC.

Unfortunately this is not the case and over the last year theres has been a hardening towards any union and an increase in the recognized partition solution

I disagree. Those TCs that wanted a true union still want it. What changed is that some others (like you for example) realized that a disguised partition (like annan plan) that would give them all the benefits of partition and all the benefits of EU at the same time was not possible. Therefore those "pseudo unionists" have now dropped the mask.

if GCs want to change this tide they have to be more pro active and encourage Tcs to work with them towards a solution that would make the majority of Cypriots desire reunification.

I agree that GCs can be more pro active in order to encourage a true unification.

But if by "making TCs desire reunification" you mean to make "reunification" a disguised partition so that those TCs that want partition will like it, then this is not what the GCs are going to do.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Those TCs that want a united Cyprus can see that the majority of Greek Cypriots are sincere. Those that don't want a united Cyprus but partition (you are one of them as you admitted many times) are simply looking for excuses.

Have you asked many TCs lately what they want? I think you will be very suprised at their answers. Also ask them about Papadop and what they think he doing for a solution.
I agree with you I have on many occassions admitted I am for recognized partition and explained my reasons why, can you tell me why ?

Those TCs that want a united Cyprus can see that the majority of Greek Cypriots are sincere. Those that don't want a united Cyprus but partition (you are one of them as you admitted many times) are simply looking for excuses

If you had a poll now you would have difficulty finding 40%, the referendum result was a slap in the face for TCs and they have had plenty of time to see read how GCs think and view a solution acceptable to them this has not done much good as they now realize that a solution is nowhere to be found.

Who are "power crazy" are those that believe that the 18% of TCs should be given the 50% power. Greek Cypriots do not want any more share in power than what their share in population is.
As for the "money/materialist hungry" I don't know where you base this. Because GCs do not want to gift to you their own land?

Get over it, you have to move on from the 1960 and population share apporach that all changed in 1974. You are negotiating with a community now on a 1 to 1 basis, 2 equal sides trying to work together to form a united Cyprus. The 1960 constitution is long dead for us, where population share was at the forfront, you have to comprehend that the game has now changed and that any power sharing will be balance as to address the concerns of both communities and not purely based on the number of GCs to the number of TCs.
When GCs put the property issu before security it gives me the impression that money is more importnant than living on a peaceful island, the fact on this forum that GCs always cry land land land supports this. Agree a solution get you land back easy as that....

RoC has proposed many measures to improve the well being of TCs. However your leadership doesn't care for your wellbeing as much as they care about the recognition of their pseudo state. If your leadership was abandoning the claims of a "TRNC" and they didn't try to exploit the properties that belong to GCs then your wellbeing would have been 100 times better with the full support of RoC.

Only Bread Crumbs...

[Kifeas]

Get over it, you have to move on from the 1960 and population share apporach that all changed in 1974.

The Ecevit /Denktash so called realities on the ground approach, or in other words the “we are the powerful, we are the winners of the war, we dictate the terms” approach.

Viewpoint!
Never!

If this is your theory, if this is your logic, if this is your philosophy, Never!
The peace and security, for which you so much preach and shed crocodile tears about in this forum, will never come about in this country. Neither for you, nor for your community, nor for any other Cypriot.

Somehow I have a feeling that this not the way in which the majority of the TCs approach the whole issue.

Alas, if I am wrong!

[Piratis]

If you had a poll now you would have difficulty finding 40%, the referendum result was a slap in the face for TCs and they have had plenty of time to see read how GCs think and view a solution acceptable to them this has not done much good as they now realize that a solution is nowhere to be found.

Finding 40% of what? Of TCs that want true unification? I am afraid that this number is (and has always been) a lot less than 40% unfortunately.

This will change when the balance of power will change. The majority of GCs wanted union with Greece in the 50s. Today only a small minority continues to demand that. When the balance will stop favoring Turkey so much, then TCs will realize that their dream of partition can not be achieved and that it will be for their best interest also to settle for the compromise we made in 1960.

[Viewpoint]

If you had a poll now you would have difficulty finding 40%, the referendum result was a slap in the face for TCs and they have had plenty of time to see read how GCs think and view a solution acceptable to them this has not done much good as they now realize that a solution is nowhere to be found.

Finding 40% of what? Of TCs that want true unification? I am afraid that this number is (and has always been) a lot less than 40% unfortunately.

This will change when the balance of power will change. The majority of GCs wanted union with Greece in the 50s. Today only a small minority continues to demand that. When the balance will stop favoring Turkey so much, then TCs will realize that their dream of partition can not be achieved and that it will be for their best interest also to settle for the compromise we made in 1960.

Please wake up, we have partition now in one form or another although not recognized the TRNC is alive and kicking, I understand that this idea sickens most GCs but its reality and until a solution is found it will stay this way, we are part of this island and will continue to exist ensuring that any solution will not see TCs living in GC state as a minority.

[Viewpoint]

Get over it, you have to move on from the 1960 and population share apporach that all changed in 1974.

The Ecevit /Denktash so called realities on the ground approach, or in other words the “we are the powerful, we are the winners of the war, we dictate the terms” approach.

Viewpoint!
Never!

If this is your theory, if this is your logic, if this is your philosophy, Never!
The peace and security, for which you so much preach and shed crocodile tears about in this forum, will never come about in this country. Neither for you, nor for your community, nor for any other Cypriot.

Somehow I have a feeling that this not the way in which the majority of the TCs approach the whole issue.

Alas, if I am wrong!

What do we currently have in Cyprus in reality?

Do we have 2 communities living working together?

Peace & security for you means something different in relation to Cyprus as it does for me, I am living in peace you are not.

The current situation can continue for another zillion years or as Piratis states until power swings in your favour or as I say the TRNC is recognized...which ever comes first.

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis,Viewpoint,


what about the idea I tried to put forward before,establishing a Truth and Justice commission in Cyprus along the South African line?Do you think it would help build trust between the communities if people who feel wrongly done by can put up their allegations and their evidence and get it off their chess in a public way?What if we gave witnesses immunity from prosecution so they can tell the truth withour fear?
I feel there is so much pent up anger and resentment and even hatred among some people that only such a move will make them move on from their trenches. Or do you think there are enough people (ex-EOKA,ex-TMT etc) in power still who will not allow this to happen?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis,Viewpoint,


what about the idea I tried to put forward before,establishing a Truth and Justice commission in Cyprus along the South African line?Do you think it would help build trust between the communities if people who feel wrongly done by can put up their allegations and their evidence and get it off their chess in a public way?What if we gave witnesses immunity from prosecution so they can tell the truth withour fear?
I feel there is so much pent up anger and resentment and even hatred among some people that only such a move will make them move on from their trenches. Or do you think there are enough people (ex-EOKA,ex-TMT etc) in power still who will not allow this to happen?

To be honest I do not feel Cypriots have that maturity to contribute positively or even truthfully to such a commission and it would probably end up in a slanging match trying to aportion blame each other and even with bloodshed. So I dont feel it would serve its purpose as we as people do not have the ability to accept absorb and resovle any issues related to our past.

[Piratis]

what about the idea I tried to put forward before,establishing a Truth and Justice commission in Cyprus along the South African line?

As a principle this idea is good. However I also doubt it could work in Cyprus and I agree with Viewpoint that it could end up in a slanging match. Personally I don't have a problem to simply forgive everybody including Turkey, leave everything behind and start something good without looking in the past. However I can understand how people that lost someone loved would want justice to be served.