Cyprus-Forum.com

[quattro]

I REPEAT: If there was no Enosis-Taksim issue....

What happened In Crete was actually a result of their own Enosis, and the population Exchange agreement with Ataturk. Exactly the same happened to the minority of Greeks living in Turkey.
In Rhodes (I think the correct term is Rhodian Turks) nothing happened to the turkish minority which in fact receives preferential treatment in government jobs up until today.

I don't think there would be any valid reason whatsoever for the Turkish minority in Cyprus to evolve any differently than the other minorities.

Pyro,

The below quote is from an article written recently by THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN who writes regularly for the International Herald Tribune/New York Times. He was writing about the recent Middle East uprising and democracy for those countries in general, but he really brings it home what Democracy is in very simple words, which I agree with him, but I wonder how many of those TCs living in the north do, as long as they are holding out for Taksim. They seem to believe that if they can just keep holding out a little bit longer, they will get their Taksim. That thought process is their Achilles Heel in ever becoming a prosperous community because Turkey will not allow the TCs to have their own state in Cyprus, not to mention the RoC also. Unless the TCs for once and for all let go of their Taksim dreams and become Cypriots in a Democratic Cyprus with a BBF, which I support due to the past circumstances, what you say above can happen, and the TCs, even as a numerical minority, can build a very prosperous life for themselves if they first let go off their Taksim dreams and embrace the three simple steps as written below in a Democracy.

Democracy requires 3 things: citizens — that is, people who see themselves as part of an undifferentiated national community where anyone can be ruler or ruled. It requires self-determination — that is, voting. And it requires what Michael Mandelbaum, author of “Democracy’s Good Name,” calls “liberty.”

“While voting determines who governs,” he explained, “liberty determines what governments can and cannot do. Liberty encompasses all the rules and limits that govern politics, justice, economics and religion.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/opini ... las&st=cse

How are you my old buddy?

I totally agree with you Kiks. What percentage do you think are the taksimists among the TCs today?

Doing well my friend. Hope the same for you.

I don't know what percentage of TCs in the north are still after Taksim. I'm sure it is far less than what it was back in 1974 and getting less by the day. I think the person who may have a better knowledge to answer your question without prejudice, would be our friend "Iceman", but sadly he hasn't posted for a while. I wouldn't take any figures from VP and his likes.

All the while self gain is a piority within us TCs,there'll always be pretend taksimists.All the while we do not feel man enough to speak up individualy and not just at protest gatherings,nothing will change.
Put us all together in a football stadium,we'll all shout for re-unification.Ask us one by one what we're there for,the answer'll be ,'here to protest Turkey's cut backs............

glad to say I do not fit in that category and also hope not to fit into 'vp and his likes category.

'We are not alone'. Now who said that?

You are both traitors of your Mongolian descend ............where is VP:?:

[Pyrpolizer]

Hehehe, It's been a few days that i am posting again, it seems to me the only person who is alone lately is VP.

Things are a changing (now who said that?)

[denizaksulu]

Hehehe, It's been a few days that i am posting again, it seems to me the only person who is alone lately is VP.

Things are a changing (now who said that?)

www.wearenotalone.com

[ZoC]

Hehehe, It's been a few days that i am posting again, it seems to me the only person who is alone lately is VP.

Things are a changing (now who said that?)

www.wearenotalone.com

"This website is currently under construction!"

just as long as ur not building it on someone else's cyberspace...

[Raymanoff]

cyberspace

I thought they've decommissioned this word back in the end of nineties.

[denizaksulu]

Hehehe, It's been a few days that i am posting again, it seems to me the only person who is alone lately is VP.

Things are a changing (now who said that?)

www.wearenotalone.com

"This website is currently under construction!"

just as long as ur not building it on someone else's cyberspace...

Thats odd; I opened it in spite of the 'website under construction' warning. Some topics on the site did draw a blank tho'.

[ZoC]

cyberspace

I thought they've decommissioned this word back in the end of nineties.

sure but some tcs still hope it will be recognised.... (like the northen latrine).

[bill cobbett]

Hehehe, It's been a few days that i am posting again, it seems to me the only person who is alone lately is VP.

Things are a changing (now who said that?)

www.wearenotalone.com

"This website is currently under construction!"

just as long as ur not building it on someone else's cyberspace...

Thats odd; I opened it in spite of the 'website under construction' warning. Some topics on the site did draw a blank tho'.

Potentially a very interesting site... a serious scientific site looking at searches for alien life on other worlds... and (and before anyone else says it) perhaps to search for intelligent life on CY 4 +4 = 0 and on CY Pollocks Press

[Piratis]

However; according to GC leadership and Hellenic ultra nationalists, "the invader Ottoman remnants" would either have to accept minority status or be harrased, killed, forced to leave "The Greek island" Cyprus...

And why should the TCs, who are less than a 5th of the population, have even more than minority rights? I remind you that minority rights are rights which are over and above the individual human rights that all citizens have.

Are you saying that the majorities of all countries which have ethnic/religious/linguistic minorities (practically all), and which are not based on the so called "consociational democracy" (practically none is) are "ultra nationalists"?

At least you admit that the TC would not have accepted a normal democracy in Cyprus and that they would seek to maintain the racist divisions imposed since Ottoman rule, regardless if our aim was enosis or an independent Cyprus with a real, one person one vote, democracy.

are you talking for what the situation should have been in the 50s or today?

I am talking about how the situation was in the 50s, but the same is true for today.

I am sorry but it is not the same. Look at my reply to Insan about the 50s.

Bear in mind that every group even a minority group wants to secure as many rights as possible. It may not be totally democratic but that's how "democracy" works today.

To put it in simple terms the Tcs TODAY are in a position to claim rights that extend upto a BBF arrangement. It doesn't mean the BBF is undemocratic, but it certainly is much more than a minority status.

The differences and the clashing between groups get normalized with the passing of time. If there was no Enosis-Taksim in the 50s and the TCs have accepted a minority status to survive, they would today be a very happy and prosperus community.

Similar normalizing will happen over time if we work out a BBF agreement today.

The TCs have always been greedy claiming much more than what they deserved. The same they do now. BBF will never happen. Claiming something is one thing, getting it is another.

Some TCs wanted only half. You wanted all of it. Get it? Now tell me who is greedy. If you dont want to share, then..................

You are wrong. We wanted to share proportionally, something TCs always rejected. We are the 82% and we want our 82% share. On the other hand the TCs are 18%, and they want 50%, almost 3 times more than their population percentage. It is clear who are the greedy ones

[Piratis]

However; according to GC leadership and Hellenic ultra nationalists, "the invader Ottoman remnants" would either have to accept minority status or be harrased, killed, forced to leave "The Greek island" Cyprus...

And why should the TCs, who are less than a 5th of the population, have even more than minority rights? I remind you that minority rights are rights which are over and above the individual human rights that all citizens have.

Are you saying that the majorities of all countries which have ethnic/religious/linguistic minorities (practically all), and which are not based on the so called "consociational democracy" (practically none is) are "ultra nationalists"?

At least you admit that the TC would not have accepted a normal democracy in Cyprus and that they would seek to maintain the racist divisions imposed since Ottoman rule, regardless if our aim was enosis or an independent Cyprus with a real, one person one vote, democracy.

are you talking for what the situation should have been in the 50s or today?

I am talking about how the situation was in the 50s, but the same is true for today.

I am sorry but it is not the same. Look at my reply to Insan about the 50s.

Bear in mind that every group even a minority group wants to secure as many rights as possible. It may not be totally democratic but that's how "democracy" works today.

To put it in simple terms the Tcs TODAY are in a position to claim rights that extend upto a BBF arrangement. It doesn't mean the BBF is undemocratic, but it certainly is much more than a minority status.

The differences and the clashing between groups get normalized with the passing of time. If there was no Enosis-Taksim in the 50s and the TCs have accepted a minority status to survive, they would today be a very happy and prosperus community.

Similar normalizing will happen over time if we work out a BBF agreement today.

The TCs have always been greedy claiming much more than what they deserved. The same they do now. BBF will never happen. Claiming something is one thing, getting it is another.

As you know not only they claimed a BBF solution but we also accepted. So they can get it any time they want. Perhaps you should ask yourself the question if they can play with time as well now that they have the BBF in their pockets.

When did we accept? The one and only proposal for a so called "BBF" was rejected by us in a referendum. Sure, a very different kind of "BBF" could be accepted by us (I gave examples of such "BBF" in the past), but it is obvious that the TCs will not accept the kind of "BBF" that we would accept and therefore BBF will never happen.