Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

There are plenty of fruitcakes here Birkibrisli and at times I ask myself if we do ourselves any justice by staying here.

[B25]

We don't need a report to tell us what we already know.

The F yanks the British and Turkey architected the whole thing, manipulating the few idiots (bananiots) we have and hey presto, we get fucked.

Whats new, this is old hat.

it's like asking for a report on who bombed the twin towers. We all know the cia did it, to facilitate US entry into Iraq. Then they just want to blame Bin laden FFS.

Conspiracy, yeah, who gives a F. We know it, they know it, the whole world knows it was an inside job.

If you think it was the CIA that bombed the twin towers you are a bigger fruitcake than I realised...

If you think a few towel heads did this all by themselves, you are more stupid and gullible than I thought. The CIA depends upon people like you, idiots, to get away with it.

I don't need reports to tell me certain things, as a logical thinking person, I CAN at least work out the OBVIOUS.

I guess you are just further proof of the brainwashing your motherland has succeeded on doing on you.

[Nikitas]

More important than the conclusions of the report is the fact that it was published. It shows that RoC is an open society with functioning democratic processes. We will wait for many decades before the equivalent Turkish and Greek files are made public.

As for the perpetrators, understanding their motives must take into account their experiences in the Grek Civil War of the 40s. ALmost all of the Junta people were Civil War veterans and rabid anticommunists. This fact is much more relevant than any "Greek nationalism" that some like to cite as the cause. Nationalism had nothing to do with it, Enosis was not the final goal of the Coup.

What surprises me in this forum is that relatively sophisticated people still interpret the events of 1974 in terms of Enosis, a notion buried in 1968 when the Greek division had been withdrawn from Cyprus. Double union was the game plan. The fall of the Junta altered the plan and Cyprus accession to the EU finally killed it. Turkey still remains faithful to the dissolution of Cyprus as a state, and that is the ONLY problem we have today. As long as that policy is active there will be no solution. Turkey does not want an independent Cyprus, with or without BBF they are trying their damndest and some TCs are falling for that plan, still believing bullshit about Enosis, too confused to see that they are living their version of Enosis since 1974.

[Nikitas]

Just finished reading the Cyprus File. Pity it is not translated for TCs to read. It is 139 pages and takes some effort even if the reader is familiar with the names of the protagonists.

It documents the plan for double union, it raises the question whether the Greek troops sent in 1964 were there to defend against an invasion or as an internal security force, and it shows how the GCs realised too late that they had been had. And it was not all the doing of the dictators, the story started way before.

And there is a bit of humor too, like the instance when the Greek officer tells Sampson to find a tie so he can be sworn in as president on July 16 1974. Above all decorum!

[quattro]

Just finished reading the Cyprus File. Pity it is not translated for TCs to read. It is 139 pages and takes some effort even if the reader is familiar with the names of the protagonists.

It documents the plan for double union, it raises the question whether the Greek troops sent in 1964 were there to defend against an invasion or as an internal security force, and it shows how the GCs realised too late that they had been had. And it was not all the doing of the dictators, the story started way before.

And there is a bit of humor too, like the instance when the Greek officer tells Sampson to find a tie so he can be sworn in as president on July 16 1974. Above all decorum!

Any link Nikita for the files ?

[CBBB]

Just finished reading the Cyprus File. Pity it is not translated for TCs to read. It is 139 pages and takes some effort even if the reader is familiar with the names of the protagonists.

It documents the plan for double union, it raises the question whether the Greek troops sent in 1964 were there to defend against an invasion or as an internal security force, and it shows how the GCs realised too late that they had been had. And it was not all the doing of the dictators, the story started way before.

And there is a bit of humor too, like the instance when the Greek officer tells Sampson to find a tie so he can be sworn in as president on July 16 1974. Above all decorum!

Any link Nikita for the files ?

Try this http://www.parliament.cy/parliamentgr/0 ... akelou.pdf

[denizaksulu]

Just finished reading the Cyprus File. Pity it is not translated for TCs to read. It is 139 pages and takes some effort even if the reader is familiar with the names of the protagonists.

It documents the plan for double union, it raises the question whether the Greek troops sent in 1964 were there to defend against an invasion or as an internal security force, and it shows how the GCs realised too late that they had been had. And it was not all the doing of the dictators, the story started way before.

And there is a bit of humor too, like the instance when the Greek officer tells Sampson to find a tie so he can be sworn in as president on July 16 1974. Above all decorum!

Any link Nikita for the files ?

As chief translator, it is your duty to us poor cf'ers to translate into Turkish. The use of 'Google Translator' however is strictly prohibited.

[halil]

Lack of planning scuppered our dreams

By Nicos Rolandis Published on April 10, 2011

have a look what he is saying .....are they noticed any of his remarks ?

I can hear how angry you are towards this man...u are angry because he tells the truth....

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IN THE 1950s, I was a young man, loaded with dreams and full of aspirations.

It was also the time when Cyprus stood on her feet and started the struggle for liberation, seeking union with Greece (enosis). It was a vision dating back centuries.

Some of us, talking in confidence to each other, expressed concern as to whether our small motherland could ever reach and embrace her dream. It was obvious that Greece herself had serious doubts about the whole venture, the British were strongly against it and Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots had rejected the idea.

I remember how heroic the struggle and sacrifice of the children of Cyprus were. However it was a struggle without any political planning, and without the acquiescence of Greece. Its Prime Minister, Nicolaos Plastiras, had refused to even receive the Cypriot delegation, which sought to hand over to him the official results of the Plebiscite on enosis. Plastiras sent a message to Makarios: “If you came to my humble cottage and asked me to fight for Cyprus I would have gladly accepted it, because I am a soldier. But you come to the office of the Prime Minister of Greece and you ask me to burn Greece to ashes, without really helping Cyprus so, please, stay quiet.” It was obvious that Cyprus was fighting for the impossible - without any planning, as usual.

So, the game was lost. “Union” was converted into “Independence”. And at the end of the day it turned out to be a special type of independence, with presidents and vice presidents in most of the state organs, with many vetoes and many question marks.

I remember that in 1960 the Greek Cypriot leadership applauded our special type of independence with the words: “we have won”. After serious consideration I had reached the conclusion with my friends that we had a certain kind of a solution. After all, the dreams which reach the stars are not always feasible on this planet.

But the thinking of the two communities was not in line with such an assessment. Neither community truly believed in the new motherland. The boat started to flounder. And moreover, at that very moment we committed the fatal blunder of suggesting an amendment to the Constitution, which would strip the Turkish Cypriots of most of their privileges under the 1960 Constitution. Greece warned that we should not do it. But we did it - without any planning, as usual.

So, we entered a decade full of dangers. We lost control. We went back to “union with Greece” - the House of Representatives voted unanimously in favour in 1967, in contravention of the Constitution. Later on we opted for what was “feasible”, but soon we turned back once more to enosis. While George Grivas was fighting the Turks in Skarinou, other leaders were talking to the Turkish Cypriots. Yet, at the same time, the Greek Cypriot leadership entertained the impression, (believe it or not) that the “Turkish Cypriots would end up boiling in their own juice”.

In 1974 came the Greek coup d’ etat. It was a horrendous crime. It opened wide the gate for the Turkish invasion. Cyprus was crucified. The impermissible assessment that the Turkish Cypriots would boil in their own juice proved wrong. We all boiled in the juice of disaster.

By that time I was a young industrialist, with a family, Lelia and three children. Businesses had lost a large part of their assets and also their prospects. Our lives were stripped of dreams. Looking back, I mused that if in 1960 we were mandated to ruin our country, it would indeed have been very difficult to achieve it in such a perfect way!

In 1976 I entered politics and in 1978 I was appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs. In those years two important plans were proposed to us. In November 1978 we had the Anglo-American-Canadian Plan, in which US President Jimmy Carter was the protagonist (hence the huge weight it carried). Then, in August 1983, UN Secretary-General Perez de Cuellar proposed the “Indicators”. The occupation was not yet solidified. We almost had no settlers and the terms on territory, constitution, properties and many other issues were quite favourable. But we were seeking something “better”, so we rejected both initiatives - without any planning, as usual.

I handed in my resignation from the post of Foreign Minister.

Of course nothing “better” was in the wings. On the contrary, after rejecting a number of other initiatives over the years, we have ended up today with an impasse. The issues of territory, properties, constitutional arrangements, security are all deadlocked. As far as the Turkish settlers are concerned a Turkish Cypriot leader put it to me recently as follows: “We have 200,000 Turkish Cypriots,” he said, “including 120,000 Turks (settlers) who have been Ťnaturalised.” These will stay here under any circumstances. “We also have an additional number of approximately 250,000 Turks who live and work here. A number of the 250,000 Turks will also stay in Cyprus.”

Just compare the above with the situation in 1983, when we had 15,000 Turkish settlers, ready to depart upon the payment of a compensation of $5,000 per capita (which the Americans were prepared to pay), an arrangement which was eventually rejected by us. Just like that - without any planning, as usual.

These days I follow the developments in connection with the off share oil and gas. We may have a substantial wealth down there. My view is that we are handling this issue in the same naďve manner as we did in the political field, from 1960 until today. We are under the false impression that once we have sovereignty we can act in any manner we consider appropriate, overlooking the Turkish Cypriots and failing again to follow the example and advice of Greece (which also has sovereignty), and which acts very cautiously in regard to her own oil and gas reserves. Unlike our stance which appears to be without any planning, as usual.

The offshore oil issue I kicked off in 1998 as Minister of Commerce, Industry and Tourism with the support of President Clerides. I negotiated for three years with the Egyptians and in February 2003 I signed in Cairo the Agreement for the Delimitation of the Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) of Egypt and Cyprus, the first EEZ Agreement ever signed in the Eastern Mediterranean. I also negotiated the EEZ issue with Lebanon and Syria during respective visits to the above countries and also started talks with the Ambassador of Israel on the subject. (Some people shamelessly make repeated false statements that the EEZ Agreement with Egypt was signed by the late Tassos Papadopoulos, a falsehood which, I know, would have infuriated Tassos if he were alive).

And I call upon you, President Christofias, to have your eyes wide open in respect of the offshore oil and gas reserves. All great alliances, conflicts and wars in history were connected one way or the other with vital economic interests, and oil is one of them.

The tragedy of 1974 may be repeated, if we are not prudent. Back then the average man in the street and even Makarios were taken aback and could not easily realise and assimilate the sudden disaster.

Mr President, the national issue and the offshore oil are both potentially explosive. We may have the hallucination that we live in the sunshine, at the very time the tempest bursts upon our heads, as happened in the past. Make sure that we shall not act yet again without planning as usual.

And do not tell me that Europe will protect us, because Europe was there during the Greece-Turkey crisis over Imia when there was almost war, and it did nothing.

Nicos Rolandis was Minister of Foreign Affairs 1978-1983, and Minister of Commerce, Industry & Tourism 1998-2003

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus-probl ... 0b252a%2C1