Cyprus-Forum.com

[Attorney]

I recently started reading this forum. I realized that many Greek friends here are just thinking that the "occupied side" is just like what they left in 1974, and they believe that the Turkish settlers will leave as soon as there is an agreement, Greeks will get their homes back, etc...

That is why I wanted to ask this question.
How Many of you GC from this forum visited the so called "occupied areas"?

I see that everybody wants to go back but more than half of the GC population did not even go to see their loved land just to avoid having their passports stamped.

Please explain this to me,

Thanks

[Dhavlos]

I have not had the chance yet to visit the 'occupied areas', but my family have and what they say is that our village is more-or-less ruined, through neglect of the owners, due to the fact they are very poor. I think most people say the north is 'old fashioned' in the sense ther is little development, but obviously since the annan plan, much has changed.

THe reason some GC dont visit the north is not just an issue of getting their passport stamped. It is the idea, that they ahve to show a passport to enter an area of land that is 'theirs'. To them the land is not foreign, and so the practice of showing a passport not only rubs the division in their face, but to may, is downright out of order. People see it as being treated as foreigners/tourists in their own country.

FOr others, they do not visit the north because they are scared that they will see things that will upset them, eg desecrated graves/ruined homes etc...

Others do not want to go back unless they are going back for ever...in other words, they will only go back out of principle, if a perminant solution is found.

hope that answers your question

[Piratis]

I didn't visit the occupied areas and I am not planning to do so.

Dhavlos gave the reasons. Why should we go like tourists to our own land??

Also don't forget that since RoC is currently unable to apply the laws in the north part of Cyprus that real laws do not actually exist there. You could be killed (like they did with Isaak and Solomou) and it would be considered perfectly OK and nobody would be even arrested!

[Bananiot]

Life teaches us differently. The only persons that were heart since the lifting of the barriers were TC's who were badly beaten by GC fanatics, simply for being TC.

[Main_Source]

Bananiot, if your talkin about the guy from a tiny Greek right-wing who was arrested by the RoC government for GBH / assault on a TC, well didnt he also beat up a GC too at that time?

Bananiot, I dont get where you are coming from!? Are you a VP in drag? Do you want segregation? or do you generally hate Greeks?

[Attorney]

Dhavlos and Piratis, thanks for honestly saying that you have not been to the Turkish Side.

The old greek villages on the Turkish Side are as ruined as the Turkish villages that are on the greek side I believe. I personally do not agree that the north is any more old fashioned than the south. The only difference is in respect to the titles on the land. The annan plan has changed a lot for a limited number of Turks but not for all. The development in the last 2 years was much faster than the previous years but it is not all the development that Turkish side has ever seen.

I understand that GC do not want to have their passports stamped ( BTW, they do not stamp them) by the Turkish Customs but you have to understand that there is -even if you do not admit- an authority there which is in power right now and it has the right to know who is going in and out.

I think the same thing is true for the TC. TC, (who did not get the RoC ID cards) show their passports before crossing to the Greek Side. Do they not? And there are many TC who had to immigrate to the Turkish Side because of 74. If GC really love their land that they left back in the Turkish Side, they should just get over it and go with their instincts instead of what Papadopoulos or the Church says.


RoC will probably not ever be able to apply its own laws on the Turkish Side just like it cannot apply its laws on the bases or Turkey or Greece. What can be more natural than that? Trust me, there are REAL Laws on the Turkish Side too. But it is also true that you can be killed if you do what Isaak and Solomou did and that does not change the fact that there are REAL laws which are somewhat different than the ones in may be Sweden or Switzerland but not from RoC. If you want to test that put a Turkish Army uniform and climb on a flag pole.

Anyway, I was trying to learn how many of our Greek friends have been to the Turkish Side but only 4 of 70 people who viewed this topic answered. (As it was adressed to GC I believe they were the ones who viewed it) I take that none of these 70 have been to Turkish Side. I wonder how correct it is for them to come up with assumptions w/o even being there once in these last 2.5 years.

[Bananiot]

Bananiot, I dont get where you are coming from!? Are you a VP in drag? Do you want segregation? or do you generally hate Greeks?

I hate chauvinists and nationalists, be they turks or greeks. They have caused all these problems and are still grinding their axes for more bloodshed.

Bananiot, if your talkin about the guy from a tiny Greek right-wing who was arrested by the RoC government for GBH / assault on a TC, well didnt he also beat up a GC too at that time?

I was responding to the argument that one could be killed in the occupied parts "and it would be considered perfectly OK". By the way, you do not have to be a member of a fascist party in order to be a fascist. I thought, even you might know this fact.

[Piratis]

Life teaches us differently. The only persons that were heart since the lifting of the barriers were TC's who were badly beaten by GC fanatics, simply for being TC.

And those GC fanatics were arrested by the police, right? On the other hand the "police" of the occupied areas whom have they arrested? Have they arrested the murderers of Isaak and Solomou? No. They are arresting people that wanted to visit their own homes or to simply take a flower from their own garden.

In the free areas the fanatics are a tiny minority of people. In the occupied areas the fanatics are those that run the pseudo state.

Attorney, the TCs who cross to the free areas are not considered foreigners. Their land is there waiting for them to take it back after the solution. We do not say "former TC land", like the thieves of our land call the land they violently took away from us.

[Attorney]

First, I consider both areas equally free. Second, I do not agree with you in the amount of fanatics on these two equally free sides of Cyprus. Let us look at the referendum. If there is fanaticism on the Turkish side, that is (was) the fanaticism for peace and agreement. On the other hand Greek Side is fanatic in the way they want to treat Turks as the second class people in a future state like they treat the Filipinos now.

In regards to the issue of being considered a foreigner or native (or citizen), I must say that if you do not want to be considered a TRNC citizen there is only one way you can be treated in the TRNC and that is being treated as a foreigner.

For the TC crossing to the Greek Controlled Areas, I assure you that they are treated as foreigners if they do not have a RoC issued ID card. They wait at the barricade for a background check etc.

I believe the Greek government did the right thing by not giving the titles of the Turkish Property to Greeks and the Turkish Government made a mistake by giving titles of the Greek Property to the Turks. But I am sure that they are not going to make another mistake by trying to sole this chaos by creating another one.

So, whoever still believes that they are going to get back what they left in Kyrenia or Famagusta or whereever else on the Turkish Side, I suggest them to wake up and realize that it is not possible. If they go at least once to see that their farmlands or houses, which the newest of them would be 31 year old now,they are nowhere near to what they were before. This is going to make it so much easier for the GC to understand that no plan will allow them to get these properties back.

That was the main reason for me to ask the GC in this forum if they have ever been to the Turkish Side or the so called "occupied areas"

[Main_Source]

If GC really love their land that they left back in the Turkish Side, they should just get over it and go with their instincts instead of what Papadopoulos or the Church says.

Yeah you can go and do one...Dont bother try and talk in a nice tone and tell us to leave what belongs to us alone.

First, I consider both areas equally free

Yeah the north is SO free that journalists get arrested if there work doesnt comply with standards set by the Turkish military.

Let us look at the referendum. If there is fanaticism on the Turkish side, that is (was) the fanaticism for peace and agreement. On the other hand Greek Side is fanatic in the way they want to treat Turks as the second class people in a future state like they treat the Filipinos now.

Your talkin bollocks. Lets see what would happend if there was a fair plan put in place and not one that heavily favoured superpower Turkey...then we will see this so called fanatacism for peace. As for treating Turks as second class people, how is this so? You sem to think that just because GC want totally equal rights for all and TC dont get there special rights...(that not even the Maronites who are a tiny minority get)...this means that GC want to treat TC as second class citizens!? lol..infact, if you got what you wanted, it would be the GC who would be treated as second class citizens. As for the Philipino's....do you REALLY know what you are talking about!? most Philipino's come over as totally unskilled workers...im sorry they are not made as bank managers or partners in a law firm.

In regards to the issue of being considered a foreigner or native (or citizen), I must say that if you do not want to be considered a TRNC citizen there is only one way you can be treated in the TRNC and that is being treated as a foreigner.

Says it all about Turkish way of thinking.

For the TC crossing to the Greek Controlled Areas, I assure you that they are treated as foreigners if they do not have a RoC issued ID card. They wait at the barricade for a background check etc.

So what about the TC WITH RoC ID cards?...are they treated as foreigners too?

I believe the Greek government did the right thing by not giving the titles of the Turkish Property to Greeks and the Turkish Government made a mistake by giving titles of the Greek Property to the Turks. But I am sure that they are not going to make another mistake by trying to sole this chaos by creating another one.

Get it right...its not the Greek government its the Cypriot government...and what would another mistake be in this case?

So, whoever still believes that they are going to get back what they left in Kyrenia or Famagusta or whereever else on the Turkish Side, I suggest them to wake up and realize that it is not possible. If they go at least once to see that their farmlands or houses, which the newest of them would be 31 year old now,they are nowhere near to what they were before. This is going to make it so much easier for the GC to understand that no plan will allow them to get these properties back.

Oh look...we got another parasite.