Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Those who were killed by Turks in the combat were mainly the ones who made the coup and defending the coupists.

Come on now. They were bombing the cities killing mainly inocents. This is a fact, there are even videos that document this actions.

[iskismet]

Piratis

It is clear to me you do not understand the concept of discussion. I have clearly said to you that partition works but you refuse to discuss this.

I am neither Greek, Greek Cypriot, Turkish or Turkish Cypriot - but it seems if I ask you questions I am against you.

When a valid point is raised you pretend not to understand.

No I have not got TCs & GCs mixed up, but you obviously don't understand truth.

And you threaten violence against opposing views.

I see no point in discussing this with you any further. I only hope that your fellow countrymen can see through clearer eyes than yourself.

[Piratis]

I have clearly said to you that partition works but you refuse to discuss this.

Discuss what? the partition of my country???
How about discussing the killing of your mother? If the partiton of my country works for you, then in exactly the same way the death of your mother works for me. So, how about straggling her? Or maybe beating her to death would be more fun? Lets discuss it.

I see no point in discussing this with you any further.

But can we still discuss about the killing of your mother? I am sure you have no probelm discussing it since unlike me you can see with "clean eyes".

[iskismet]

My mother is dead - you moron.

If you think there is some similarity between a discussion about partition and the violence you propose (does it stop at my mother or would it spread?) - then I would fear for any minority national in your area and I am right to discontinue this discussion.

In 40 years you have not learnt anything.

[erolz]

I have clearly said to you that partition works but you refuse to discuss this.

Discuss what? the partition of my country???
How about discussing the killing of your mother? If the partiton of my country works for you, then in exactly the same way the death of your mother works for me. So, how about straggling her? Or maybe beating her to death would be more fun? Lets discuss it.

I see no point in discussing this with you any further.

But can we still discuss about the killing of your mother? I am sure you have no probelm discussing it since unlike me you can see with "clean eyes".

You really do scare me Piratis. Do you have no sensitivity. In 1964, ten years before the arrival of the Turkish Army in Cyprus, my family got a lesson in what it meant to live as a minority in a GC controlled Cyprus. Here is a copy of a cyprus mail article that relates to this tragegy.

http://www.visionmatters.co.uk/cyprus/text.htm

This was the reality of living as a TC minority in Cyprus for my Aunt. For 10 years she lived in fear. Not some distant fear but a real palpable direct fear, where every time there was a knock on her door late at night she wondered if those that had killed her husband had returned for her and her children. She moved to a safe area, not because of pressure from TC or TMT, but because of this fear. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the events of 74 it was only after these events it was only after this time that she felt safe in her own country, after 10 years of fear.

I understand and accept that there were killings on both sides in the period 63-74. I also understand that GC will say they were trying to subdue a 'rebellion' by TC (which I refute is what was happeneing but understand that it can and is portrayed as such by GC). However my Aunts husband was not killed by 'legal' GC forces trying to 'quell' a rebellion. He was taken from his place of work, whilst going about his own business, and killed by illegal GC forces. Yes there was intercommunal troubles at those times and one community was numericaly larger and had all the offical powers and force of the state and the other was smaller and weaker community with none of the powers and force of the state. This is my families direct personal experience of livving as a minority in a GC dominated state.

So now forty years on you can glibly talk of 'beating someones mother to death' as a comparison to GC losses in 1974 and the division of the Island then. You say that if TC will not agree to your terms and accept they will have no right to anything other than what a minority have a right to (plus some other 'protections' that are not rights but mere gifts) then we will be your enemy and should fear the consequences of that. Well we were already your enemy 11 years before the events of 74. We know what it meant to live as a minority in GC eyes and what value 'extra consitituional protections had' back then. What value UN protection had then. What value European courts had then. What it meant to be considered an enemy of GC apsirations and total control of Cyprus.

You want back that which you lost in 74. Well my aunt wants back what she lost in 64 - but no power on earth can give her back her lost husband. No power on earth can erase the 10 years of living in fear that she experienced in the period 64-74. Not some remote fear of Troops over a border, but direct fear of the very people she lived amongst. No power on earth can erase for her children the pain of growing up without a father. She now lives in a property that used to be owned by a GC. Do you think for one minute she would not joyfully return it in exchange for her lost husband, or three such properties or 10 if that were possible?

You talk of the illegal acts of Turkey in 74. Well understand why those acts were necessary as far as my Aunt is concerned. Understand how GC behviour and brutality aimed at a TC minority in their own country made those acts a necessity for some TC.

I want to move on and put this killing and hatred behind me and behind the people in Cyprus. This is not helped by your insitance that if TC lived in unacceptable conditions in the period 63-74 this is because of TC aspirations for partition and nothing to do with GC. It is not helped by your insitance that we accept your demands that we are a minority or we will be your enemy. It is certainly not helped by your glib references to 'beating someones mother to death' no matter how 'hypothetical' they are.

I try not to dwell on what happend to my uncle in 64 or to let it dominate my thoughts in discussions of the future of Cyprus. However neither do I or will I forget what happened, and who did these things and for what ends they did these things.

[iskismet]

Enrolz

Very moving and very well written. My heart goes out to your Aunt, and to people like her on both sides

However, we can both see that words are wasted on people like Piratis.

He is a person to be pitied rather than despised.

[Piratis]

Apparently the very "objective" iskismet is very moved by the deaths of some TCs, but doesn't give a shit about the 10 times as many dead and missing from our side. Very objective indeed. (of course we knew he was not objective from the very beginning since he uses a Turkish word as his nickname!!).

So go sell your propaganda elsewhere. Here we are not buying your crap.

The example of your mother was just to show to you that the same way is offensive for you to discuss how to kill her, so it is for us to discuss how to kill our country.

[iskismet]

But I also feel sorry for you Moron!

You are missing so much in life with such a bitter outlook.

[erolz]

Apparently the very "objective" iskismet is very moved by the deaths of some TCs, but doesn't give a shit about the 10 times as many dead and missing from our side. Very objective indeed. (of course we knew he was not objective from the very beginning since he uses a Turkish word as his nickname!!).

So go sell your propaganda elsewhere. Here we are not buying your crap.

The example of your mother was just to show to you that the same way is offensive for you to discuss how to kill her, so it is for us to discuss how to kill our country.

I despair of you Piratis. You accuse 'iskismet' of being moved by TC deaths but not by the deaths of GC (using words like shit and crap) when he actualy said

and to people like her on both sides

and then you talk about selling propaganda!

You justify your talking of 'beating his mother to death' because he dared to suggest that partion 'worked' in respect of there not being continued communal violence and deaths after the partition was achieved. You remain defiant and unrepentant at such extreme and violent expressions. You scare me Piratis but if you think fear will make me 'comply' with what you want then you are sorely mistaken. You only feed my determination to not be dominated by people like you. You make my hopes to see a truly united Cyprus seem like unrealistic dreams. Is this actualy what you want?

The point of my recouting my Aunt's tradgic story was to try and make you understand that from 63-74 Cypriots were suffering, not just loss of lands and property but also death and fear. On both sides, though in any conflict when one side is massively stronger than the other the weak always suffer the most. This suffering was ongoing. Without the Turkish military action what was going to end this suffering? Iskismet suggested that the action in 74 ended this suffering that had persisted for 11 years. Now it is perfectly valid as far as I can see for you to feel that the 'price' of ending this suffering was too high and to argue that position. However look at the way you chose to make your point. Is that really compatible with an attitude of mutual respect and a search for better understanding or it is actualy more compatible with an attitude of distain and hatred for anyone with a view different to yours?

I ask you again what is your objective in participating in these forums for it would be easy to conclude that your real objective is to try and promote an atmosphere of hatred and inability for Cypriots to resolve issues themselves in some hope that the EU or some other body will eventualy impose a solution on Cyprus that you can not achieve through negotiation with the very people you claimed to want to live in unity with?

[Piratis]

iskismet if you want to pass propaganda then you can at least try to do it right. Your mistakes:

1) You should try to seem objective. Supporting with such a passion the Turkish position is something that immediately destroys your "objectiveness" mask.
2) Nice move of using "UK" as your location. But using the nick name "iskismet" was not as smart.
3) Cypriots take things personally here and thats natural. But if you wanted to pass as just an independent observer then you should be more relaxed otherwise your true identity is revealed.

We've seen several people like you. Most of them are more successful though. Try harder next time.