Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

What I am saying is that what we want is first the liberation of our country and then peace. What we have now is not peace. Its a cease fire, and it will remain that way until Cyprus is liberated from the illegal Turkish occupation.

So the operation of Turkey was a "peace operation". Do you forget about the 6.000 dead, 1.500 missing and 200.000 refugees of your "peace operation".

Maybe in the future we will have our own "peace operation", and when you complain about it I will show you your post.

[iskismet]

There are a number of difficulties with what you have just said.

Turkish Cypriots had been driven into enclaves and were being killed in 1974. You cannot deny this - it is a fact.

It is this and similar denials which are the stumbling block in any settlement. How can the Turkish Cypriots trust the Greek Cypriots if the Greek Cypriot will not admit it was their doing and the support for the Greek junta that caused the trouble.

Please explain your last line - I see it as a 'threat' of violence?

[Piratis]

Turkish Cypriots had been driven into enclaves and were being killed in 1974. You cannot deny this - it is a fact.

The fact is that TCs went into enclaves and that there was violence coming from both sides. I don't deny the crimes committed against TCs by some extremists of EOKA-B, but you also had TMT with similar actions against GCs. Now the "driven" part in your sentence might not be entirely true. They went there not just because of violence, but because they had partition in mind, which you should admit have been the aim of many TCs long time before the violence started.

if the Greek Cypriot will not admit it was their doing and the support for the Greek junta that caused the trouble.

Greek junta came to Cyprus to take down our democratically elected president. Apart from the extremists above nobody supported the junta. Your side simply used this as an excuse.

Please explain your last line - I see it as a 'threat' of violence?

You are the one who said that what is legal doesn't matter and problems should be solved with "peace opearations".

[iskismet]

Piratis

Point 1: You've made a huge (and completely wrong) assumption about my side!

However, to continue.

Point 2: What would cause whole communities to uproot and go into an enclave.

The answer is fear.

Point 2: I was in Cyprus in 1974. I saw Greek Cypriots machine gunning Greek Cypriots. I know that large numbers of Greek Cypriots supported enosis (and so do you if you are honest).

Point 3: You are twisting my words in some way. Where do I say 'what is legal doesn't matter'.

I am more than happy to discuss issues with you but not if you are going to try to twist words to suit yourself with no regard for the truth, and if you are going to threaten violence.

I repeat: there have been 30 years of non-killing - why wouldn't partition be the real answer?

[Piratis]

Point 1: You've made a huge (and completely wrong) assumption about my side!

You are obvioulsy not on our side, so whats the wrong assumption?

Point 2: What would cause whole communities to uproot and go into an enclave.

The answer is also to prepare for partition. Notice that I say "also" while you are taking an absolute and wrong position.

Point 2: I was in Cyprus in 1974. I saw Greek Cypriots machine gunning Greek Cypriots. I know that large numbers of Greek Cypriots supported enosis (and so do you if you are honest).

I was not born in 74, and I never supported enosis.

Your observation of GCs killing GCs in 1974 should have shown to you that the terrorists were against all of us. It was not one community killing the other as you want to believe. This was is just what the Turkish propaganda is saying to support thier illegal and criminal actions.

Point 3: You are twisting my words in some way. Where do I say 'what is legal doesn't matter'.

You said: "It is interesting that you only want to talk about solving the problems on your terms of non partition - and quoting a legal solution."

I repeat: there have been 30 years of non-killing - why wouldn't partition be the real answer?

Are you kidding me or what? Because our land is under occuaption!!! You are talking like violence is the one and only problem that exists in the world. What about our properties and human rights?

[iskismet]

1. You have the American mentality. Because I am not for you, I'm against you. Everything is not black and white. I believe in looking at both sides of the story. Also I have not been indoctrinated since birth by my government.

2. Which is what I meant by saying you are trying to use the law all the time to justify your actions. The law is not able to compromise - unlike 'most' people.

3. I won't deny that the Turkey probably (most likely) had an eye on Cyprus but what fools the Greeks and Greek Cypriots were for continuing their vendetta against the TCs and the lost enosis cause.

3. It WAS one community against the other. I saw Makarious supporting GCs from Paphos (on their way to Nicosia) being machine gunned in a coach at Kolossi by GCs from Limassol. Nicos Sampson boasted of killing 28 GCs - most of them in the back of the head. He didn't survive being a one off, he was supported by fellow GCs.

Why do you automatically believe the GC side and 'rubbish' everything else. Try reading the Cyprus Conflict website. Or are they also anti GC?

4. I believe life is all. If you put property above life then God help you and people like you.

Without life there are no human rights.

[insan]

The fact is that TCs went into enclaves and that there was violence coming from both sides. I don't deny the crimes committed against TCs by some extremists of EOKA-B

When a part of TCs went into enclaves either fear of being killed by EOKA terrorists under command of Grivas or voluntarily to achieve their Taksim goal as a consequence and reaction to Enosis; there was no EOKA-B. EOKA-B was formed by Grivas in 1971 when he secretly returned to Cyprus after his departure in 1967.

Grivas and EOKA knew that the biggest obstacle infront of Enosis were Makarios who in 1967 had publicly declared that Enosis policy was no longer viable and the leftists which Makarios took side with them and were giving struggle against both Enosists and Taksimists in order to keep the unitary state up.


EOKA-B hadn't committed any crimes against TCs until 20th of July 1974 because their first targets were Makarios and leftists. When they overthrew Makarios by Sampson coup; Turkey gave an ultimatum to Greece.


If Sampson had resigned until the 19th of July and even perhaps 20th of July and Makarios had returned Cyprus and declared that all coupists arrested, the National Guard and Greek contingent had been taken under control; Turkey wouldn't and couldn't intervene militarily but politicaly...


But coupists must be sure of that US wouldn't let leftist Ecevit to intervene and give support to EOKA-B as a gift for overtrowing the Castro of the mediterrenean.


US did everything she could to stop Turkey but no way, Turkey intervened; National guard, EOKA-B, ELDIK and their extreme supporter civilian GCs combatted against Turkey. Turkey was decisive to put a full stop to the neverending blind fight in Cyprus. She couldn't put a full stop but at least bloody side of the story has finished.

[Piratis]

1. You have the American mentality. Because I am not for you, I'm against you.

No, you are against us because you support the partition of our country and the legalization of the crimes committed against us.

Everything is not black and white. I believe in looking at both sides of the story. Also I have not been indoctrinated since birth by my government.

I look at both sides of the story too. But you have to separate facts from fiction because some of the stories you look at are possibly fairy tales, otherwise known as propaganda.

2. Which is what I meant by saying you are trying to use the law all the time to justify your actions. The law is not able to compromise - unlike 'most' people.

I am very compromising:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus211.html

3. I won't deny that the Turkey probably (most likely) had an eye on Cyprus but what fools the Greeks and Greek Cypriots were for continuing their vendetta against the TCs and the lost enosis cause.

Do you realize that when you talk about Greeks of that time you are talking about the military junta, a dictatorship, and not somebody that represented the Greeks? In Cyprus, those that actively supported enosis after 1960 where some extremists, and not the general population.

3. It WAS one community against the other. I saw Makarious supporting GCs from Paphos (on their way to Nicosia) being machine gunned in a coach at Kolossi by GCs from Limassol. Nicos Sampson boasted of killing 28 GCs - most of them in the back of the head. He didn't survive being a one off, he was supported by fellow GCs.

TC= Turkish Cypriots. GC = Greek Cypriots. Have you confused anything in your above statement?

4. I believe life is all. If you put property above life then God help you and people like you.

So whats the argument here? That we either accept our properties to be taken and our human rights to be violated or otherwise they will kill us?

there was no EOKA-B. EOKA-B was formed by Grivas in 1971

The extremists were always the same. If they officially declared EOKA-B in 71 is just a technicality. We are talking about the exact same people.

US did everything she could to stop Turkey but no way, Turkey intervened

I don't agree with that. The US knew all along the whole plan and it was approved by them.Americans used to call Cyprus "The little Cuba of Mediterranean".

She couldn't put a full stop but at least bloody side of the story has finished.

.. by killing 6.000 people. Very interesting way of ending the "bloody side of the story". Is the saying "head (kelle) pains, cut head", a Turkish one?

By the way, I am not sure the bloody side is over. Peace is not here yet.

[erolz]

In Cyprus, those that actively supported enosis after 1960 where some extremists, and not the general population.

In Cyprus those that continued to work towards enosis after 1960 were the same ones that tried to acheive it before 1960. That includes Makarios. This is totaly clear to me if you look at what he said after 1960. It is also clearly laid out in documentary form in things like the Akritas plan. The idea that GC simply abandoned any hope or desire for Enosis in 1960 excpet for a tiny numner of extermists is just not represetnative of the reality at that time imo.

I could provide countless examples of where Makarios comitment to the cause of Enosis after 1960 is shown. I will not bother however as there is no so deaf as those that refuse to hear.

[insan]

.. by killing 6.000 people. Very interesting way of ending the "bloody side of the story". Is the saying "head (kelle) pains, cut head", a Turkish one?

Those who were killed by Turks in the combat were mainly the ones who made the coup and defending the coupists. They were neither defending the democratic order of their country nor the lives of Cypriots. Their only aim was Enosis and a right wing controlled Cyprus. Hundreds of leftists were killed by coupists on 15th of July and those bloodthirsty terrorists were decisive to destroy everyone who was an obstacle infront of Enosis...