Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

So Youloser and Piratis, the position is that my likely ancestors have probably lived in Britain for 12000 years or so.

Does this mean you are not English, and that the existence of the "English" is based on nothing more than a myth?

So supporttheunderdog, I would urge you to hit the English forums to convince your compatriots that the Anglo-Saxon remnants who came to Britain really had no effect on the local population, and that you should correct the error that you made naming yourselves after them, and stop calling yourselves "English".

When you achieve this aim and you convince your own compatriots to change their identity let us know.

[supporttheunderdog]

yes technicaly I am probably Brythonic but from a part of the Island now known as England (when it probably should be Briton pr Brython) and I am quite happy nto keep the label English.

[Piratis]

yes technicaly I am probably Brythonic but from a part of the Island now known as England (when it probably should be Briton pr Brython) and I am quite happy nto keep the label English.

Great! So now lets see how fast you can convince the so called "English" that they should abandon their identity based on your DNA theories.

When you convince your own people then come to sell your theories to us.

[SpartanGamer]

So Youloser and Piratis, the position is that my likely ancestors have probably lived in Britain for 12000 years or so.

And you would have remained a troglodyte if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact of the spread of E-V13

[supporttheunderdog]

So Youloser and Piratis, the position is that my likely ancestors have probably lived in Britain for 12000 years or so.

And you would have remained a troglodyte if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact of the spread of E-V13

The influence of E-V13 is (a) quite minor and (b) and it is any event a Haplogroup probably of North East African origin which spread to SW Europe with a a big concentration in the Balkans (around Kosovo) and probably of Roman importation in to Britain, which is long after the ancestors of the English began building houses in about 8500 BC

see http://www.jogg.info/41/Wiik.pdf (warning - its is an 18Mb download and the following from Wikipedia:

Roman soldiers in Britain

Significant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, England and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002). Bird (2007) attributes the overall presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula. Bird proposes a connection to the modern region encompassing Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria (a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior), which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this sub-clade.

See http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm which was the main paper that theory relies upon.

[SpartanGamer]

So Youloser and Piratis, the position is that my likely ancestors have probably lived in Britain for 12000 years or so.

And you would have remained a troglodyte if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact of the spread of E-V13

The influence of E-V13 is (a) quite minor and (b) and it is any event a Haplogroup probably of North East African origin which spread to SW Europe with a a big concentration in the Balkans (around Kosovo) and probably of Roman importation in to Britain, which is long after the ancestors of the English began building houses in about 8500 BC

see http://www.jogg.info/41/Wiik.pdf (warning - its is an 18Mb download and the following from Wikipedia:

Roman soldiers in Britain

Significant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, England and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002). Bird (2007) attributes the overall presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula. Bird proposes a connection to the modern region encompassing Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria (a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior), which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this sub-clade.

See http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm which was the main paper that theory relies upon.

You can't abandon your racist interpretations, can you?

If you read with an unbiased mind, you will notice I stated: "... if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact ..."

Now, tell us how little influence the Greco-Romans had on your culture

Besides, you're always a little behind the most current research



BMC Evol Biol. 2011 Mar 14;11(1):69. [Epub ahead of print]
The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica: Y-chromosome models of archaic Greek colonization of the western Mediterranean.
King RJ, Dicristofaro J, Kouvatsi A, Triantaphyllidis C, Scheidel W, Myres NM, Lin AA, Eissautier A, Mitchell M, Binder D, Semino O, Novelletto A, Underhill PA, Chiaroni J.

Abstract
ABSTRACT:

BACKGROUND: The process of Greek colonization of the Central and Western Mediterranean during the Archaic and Classical Eras has been understudied from the perspective of population genetics. To investigate the Y chromosomal demography of Greek colonization in the Western Mediterranean, Y-chromosome data consisting of 29 YSNPs and 37 YSTRs were compared from 51 subjects from Provence, 56 subjects from Smyrna and 31 subjects whose paternal ancestry derives from Asia Minor Phokaia, the ancestral embarkation port to the 6th century BCE Greek colonies of Massalia (Marseilles) and Alalie (Aleria, Corsica).

RESULTS: 19% of the Phokaian and 12% of the Smyrnian representatives were derived for haplogroup E-V13, characteristic of the Greek and Balkan mainland, while 4% of the Provencal, 4.6% of West Corsican and 1.6% of East Corsican samples were derived for E-V13. An admixture analysis estimated that 17% of the Y-chromosomes of Provence may be attributed to Greek colonization. Using putative Neolithic Anatolian lineages: J2a-dys445=6, G2a-M406 and J2a1b1-M92 the data predict a 0% Neolithic contribution to Provence from Anatolia. Estimates of colonial Greek vs. indigenous Celto-Ligurian demography predict a maximum of a 10% Greek contribution, suggesting a Greek male elite-dominant input into the Iron Age Provence population.

CONCLUSIONS: Given the origin of viniculture in Provence is ascribed to Massalia, these results suggest that E-V13 may trace the demographic and socio-cultural impact of Greek colonization in Mediterranean Europe, a contribution that appears to be considerably larger than that of a Neolithic pioneer colonization.

[Piratis]

supporttheunderdog, how are your efforts going to teach the people that wrongly believe that they are "English" that they are actually not?

[supporttheunderdog]

So Youloser and Piratis, the position is that my likely ancestors have probably lived in Britain for 12000 years or so.

And you would have remained a troglodyte if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact of the spread of E-V13

The influence of E-V13 is (a) quite minor and (b) and it is any event a Haplogroup probably of North East African origin which spread to SW Europe with a a big concentration in the Balkans (around Kosovo) and probably of Roman importation in to Britain, which is long after the ancestors of the English began building houses in about 8500 BC

see http://www.jogg.info/41/Wiik.pdf (warning - its is an 18Mb download and the following from Wikipedia:

Roman soldiers in Britain

Significant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, England and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002). Bird (2007) attributes the overall presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula. Bird proposes a connection to the modern region encompassing Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria (a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior), which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this sub-clade.

See http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm which was the main paper that theory relies upon.

You can't abandon your racist interpretations, can you?

If you read with an unbiased mind, you will notice I stated: "... if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact ..."

Now, tell us how little influence the Greco-Romans had on your culture

Besides, you're always a little behind the most current research



BMC Evol Biol. 2011 Mar 14;11(1):69. [Epub ahead of print]
The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica: Y-chromosome models of archaic Greek colonization of the western Mediterranean.
King RJ, Dicristofaro J, Kouvatsi A, Triantaphyllidis C, Scheidel W, Myres NM, Lin AA, Eissautier A, Mitchell M, Binder D, Semino O, Novelletto A, Underhill PA, Chiaroni J.

Abstract
ABSTRACT:

BACKGROUND: The process of Greek colonization of the Central and Western Mediterranean during the Archaic and Classical Eras has been understudied from the perspective of population genetics. To investigate the Y chromosomal demography of Greek colonization in the Western Mediterranean, Y-chromosome data consisting of 29 YSNPs and 37 YSTRs were compared from 51 subjects from Provence, 56 subjects from Smyrna and 31 subjects whose paternal ancestry derives from Asia Minor Phokaia, the ancestral embarkation port to the 6th century BCE Greek colonies of Massalia (Marseilles) and Alalie (Aleria, Corsica).

RESULTS: 19% of the Phokaian and 12% of the Smyrnian representatives were derived for haplogroup E-V13, characteristic of the Greek and Balkan mainland, while 4% of the Provencal, 4.6% of West Corsican and 1.6% of East Corsican samples were derived for E-V13. An admixture analysis estimated that 17% of the Y-chromosomes of Provence may be attributed to Greek colonization. Using putative Neolithic Anatolian lineages: J2a-dys445=6, G2a-M406 and J2a1b1-M92 the data predict a 0% Neolithic contribution to Provence from Anatolia. Estimates of colonial Greek vs. indigenous Celto-Ligurian demography predict a maximum of a 10% Greek contribution, suggesting a Greek male elite-dominant input into the Iron Age Provence population.

CONCLUSIONS: Given the origin of viniculture in Provence is ascribed to Massalia, these results suggest that E-V13 may trace the demographic and socio-cultural impact of Greek colonization in Mediterranean Europe, a contribution that appears to be considerably larger than that of a Neolithic pioneer colonization.

I fail to see what ancient Greek imperialist actions in Southern France have to to do with what happned in Britain as there is nothing in the article which mentions Britain, and no obvious connection between Greek imperilaists in Southern France and Balkan origin troops (probably frm the Kosovo region) in Britain a few hundred years later.

As it is your assertions the British were trogloditic (in particular at the time of the Roman Invasions) were (a) themselves racist and (b) probably incorrect as by the time of the Roman Invasion the British lived in a well orderded and cultured society : further there is little evidnce of what were probably the equivalent of a bunch of squaddies added anything of Socio economic significance.

As it is bearing in mind the History of the Distribution of E-V13 the chances are it also contributed to the improvement of then "Greek" Culture.

[SpartanGamer]

So Youloser and Piratis, the position is that my likely ancestors have probably lived in Britain for 12000 years or so.

And you would have remained a troglodyte if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact of the spread of E-V13

The influence of E-V13 is (a) quite minor and (b) and it is any event a Haplogroup probably of North East African origin which spread to SW Europe with a a big concentration in the Balkans (around Kosovo) and probably of Roman importation in to Britain, which is long after the ancestors of the English began building houses in about 8500 BC

see http://www.jogg.info/41/Wiik.pdf (warning - its is an 18Mb download and the following from Wikipedia:

Roman soldiers in Britain

Significant frequencies of E-V13 have also been observed in towns in Wales, England and Scotland. The old trading town of Abergele on the northern coast of Wales in particular showed 7 out of 18 local people tested were in this lineage (approximately 40%), as reported in Weale et al. (2002). Bird (2007) attributes the overall presence of E-V13 in Great Britain, especially in areas of high frequency, to settlement during the 1st through 4th centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula. Bird proposes a connection to the modern region encompassing Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria (a region corresponding to the Roman province of Moesia Superior), which was identified by Peričic et al. (2005) as harboring the highest frequency worldwide of this sub-clade.

See http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm which was the main paper that theory relies upon.

You can't abandon your racist interpretations, can you?

If you read with an unbiased mind, you will notice I stated: "... if it wasn't for the socio-cultural impact ..."

Now, tell us how little influence the Greco-Romans had on your culture

Besides, you're always a little behind the most current research



BMC Evol Biol. 2011 Mar 14;11(1):69. [Epub ahead of print]
The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica: Y-chromosome models of archaic Greek colonization of the western Mediterranean.
King RJ, Dicristofaro J, Kouvatsi A, Triantaphyllidis C, Scheidel W, Myres NM, Lin AA, Eissautier A, Mitchell M, Binder D, Semino O, Novelletto A, Underhill PA, Chiaroni J.

Abstract
ABSTRACT:

BACKGROUND: The process of Greek colonization of the Central and Western Mediterranean during the Archaic and Classical Eras has been understudied from the perspective of population genetics. To investigate the Y chromosomal demography of Greek colonization in the Western Mediterranean, Y-chromosome data consisting of 29 YSNPs and 37 YSTRs were compared from 51 subjects from Provence, 56 subjects from Smyrna and 31 subjects whose paternal ancestry derives from Asia Minor Phokaia, the ancestral embarkation port to the 6th century BCE Greek colonies of Massalia (Marseilles) and Alalie (Aleria, Corsica).

RESULTS: 19% of the Phokaian and 12% of the Smyrnian representatives were derived for haplogroup E-V13, characteristic of the Greek and Balkan mainland, while 4% of the Provencal, 4.6% of West Corsican and 1.6% of East Corsican samples were derived for E-V13. An admixture analysis estimated that 17% of the Y-chromosomes of Provence may be attributed to Greek colonization. Using putative Neolithic Anatolian lineages: J2a-dys445=6, G2a-M406 and J2a1b1-M92 the data predict a 0% Neolithic contribution to Provence from Anatolia. Estimates of colonial Greek vs. indigenous Celto-Ligurian demography predict a maximum of a 10% Greek contribution, suggesting a Greek male elite-dominant input into the Iron Age Provence population.

CONCLUSIONS: Given the origin of viniculture in Provence is ascribed to Massalia, these results suggest that E-V13 may trace the demographic and socio-cultural impact of Greek colonization in Mediterranean Europe, a contribution that appears to be considerably larger than that of a Neolithic pioneer colonization.

I fail to see what ancient Greek imperialist actions in Southern France have to to do with what happned in Britain as there is nothing in the article which mentions Britain, and no obvious connection between Greek imperilaists in Southern France and Balkan origin troops (probably frm the Kosovo region) in Britain a few hundred years later.

As it is your assertions the British were trogloditic (in particular at the time of the Roman Invasions) were (a) themselves racist and (b) probably incorrect as by the time of the Roman Invasion the British lived in a well orderded and cultured society : further there is little evidnce of what were probably the equivalent of a bunch of squaddies added anything of Socio economic significance.

As it is bearing in mind the History of the Distribution of E-V13 the chances are it also contributed to the improvement of then "Greek" Culture.

You fail to see only that which doesn't suit your "theories".

After Pytheas the Greek of Massilia mapped Bretannikē and paved the way for the "messengers" (aka Romans) of the Greek socio-cultural influences that were to shape the Western World (as scholars would assert, but you would deny) they made the greatest of contributions by shaping the British landscape (to start with).

For example:

[Piratis]

"supporttheunderdog" I believe it is time for you to stop being childish and disrespectful. We have already shown that people of this island are far more Greek than anything in Britain is English.

I cornered you and you admitted: "yes technically I am probably Brythonic but from a part of the Island now known as England".

Can you show me how many posts you made in England forums supporting the argument that those people are not really English and that they should stop calling themselves English? Can you show me where you call them "pseudo English"?

I doubt you did such thing. So when in Cyprus we are far, far, far more Greek than anything in Britain is English, then the question is: Why are you hell bend to change our identity while you don't mind at all the identity of your own compatriots?

Your motives stink of imperialism. Occupy our lands, oppress us, and then tell us what we should and shouldn't be to fit your own interests. The only thing you care about is how to keep Cyprus isolated from the rest of the Greek nation so you can continue to easily abuse and exploit our island.