supporttheunderdog wrote:yialousa1971 wrote:supporttheunderdog wrote:No not running at all: I have a life outside of CF and, having been away from home for nearly a week, was living it by spending some quality time with my ladies, all of whom were in need of some TLC.
1) re you 21,15 post on vikings can you give me a URL or other reference to where I can find the study?
2) Re the UCL 2002 Study I am aware of it and had read what you had posted before I had started this thread.
That Study has been superseded by at least two other later studies which I referred to in my opening item - I am in course of putting togther a more comprehensive response with links to supporting items /these latest studies and will revert but it might take a few days.
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/25/2/301.full
LOL you're putting togther a more comprehensive response. You need your eyes testing if you can't see the population of Britain has multiple origins!
Thanks - I'll look it out.
The recent studies I am am aware of and referring to, Sykes and Oppenheimer in particular, themselves recognise the diverse genetic input in Britain:one can even trace the Balkans origin of some genetic lines, probably introduced with Roman Auxiliary troops/Mercenaries, and there are some suggestions of African input in one place in Yorkshire, possibly again related to slaves, etc, who accompanied Roman Legions.
Indeed one study suggests that about a 1000 years ago England was genetically more diverse than it is today.
Its the same in Greece- almost certainly multiple waves. That however is another topic.
These studies also recognise that the genetic make up can vary quite considerably from place to place. One reason you might for example find a predominance of Vikings in the Lake district or the uplands in Yorkshire is that it is hard country to farm and it was all that was available to them.
Same may well go for Orkney's' and Shetlands' -
What the debate is about is the current extent of that diversity, where the most recent studies by Sykes, Oppenheimer and all, suggest that Anglo-Saxon Origin theory is grossly overstated, and that that majority of the English/British alive today are descended principally from the peoples who came to Britain along the Atlantic coast from Iberia around the end of the last glacial Maximum.
More to follow.
No Greece/Cyprus is not the same as England.
American anthropologist J. Lawrence Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present racial continuity in Greece is striking. Buxton who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”
Great Britian, General Survey (Chapter X, section 3) Races of Europe, Carletoon Stevens Coon
The regional distribution of hair color in Great Britain19 closely follows that of total pigmentation as shown on Map 8. In England, black hair ranges from nearly 0 to 10 per cent, except in Devonshire and Cornwall, where it reaches a maximum of 20 per cent in the region of Penzance. Along the eastern coast it is extremely rare, and the average for the country is probably between 4 per cent and 5 per cent. Dark brown hair accounts for 14 per cent to 43 per cent of the population in the different parts of England. In general, it runs below 30 per cent in the regions of intensive Saxon and Danish occupation - that is, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, and Yorkshire - while it averages above 30 per cent in the west, and has a mean of approximately 40 per cent in Cornwall. Brown hair, a light-to-intermediate hue, ranges from 57 per cent to 24 per cent, and has a distribution precisely opposite to that of dark brown hair, which may be considered intermediate-to-dark. On the whole brown is more prevalent than dark brown, and the blond element is considerably more important than the brunet one among the English. Fair hair, representing golden, ashen, and also light brown hues, varies from 5 per cent to 47 per cent. Well over 25 per cent is typical of the North Sea coast, while in Cornwall it runs from 10 per cent to 15 per cent. Among English blonds, golden hair is far commoner than the ashen variety, but ash-blondism is by no means absent, nor as rare as in Ireland.
In Cardiganshire in west central Wales, a selected group of 520 men with black or dark brown hair had a mean cephalic index of 74.6, and a stature of 167 cm. The index would be about 72 on the skull, which is the mean for the Long Barrow type of the Neolithic, and furthermore, the stature is comparable. Similarly in a Scottish Highland series 33 dark haired men have a mean cephalic index of 77.7, fair-haired ones of 78.1. The brunets have a mean head length of 196.7 mm., the blonds of 193.9 mm. In Elgin and Nairn, similarly, absolutely greater head lengths go with mixed and dark complexion.
These correlations on the whole show that a brunet racial type characterized by an extremely long cranial vault and moderately tall stature has retained its identity in the peripheries of Great Britain, notably in Wales and the Scotch Highlands, while the more numerous Nordic elements are characterized by a more moderate head length and mesocephaly. They also show that brachycephalic strains which have entered into the British racial composition must have been largely blond, although there is evidence of a minor element of brunet brachycephaly in one local instance.
If specific data for racial description is scanty in Great Britain, both the author and the reader can largely supply that deficiency from common observation. The most frequent type is a Nordic variety, as described above; but it is well known that other types are by no means rare. The thick-set, wide-faced, and large-nosed type, so common in caricature under the guise of John Bull, must be derived from the larger brachycephalic element brought in by the Bronze Age invasions; it is a British form of the continental Borreby race. In the fishing villages of the Yorkshire coast, where local dialects are spoken in which much Scandinavian still remains, and where the older fishermen still wear T-shaped amulets around their necks reminiscent of Thor's hammer, pure Norwegian and Danish physical types are common, and the same is true in the Orkneys and Shetlands.
Cornwall, which is the darkest county in England and an ancient Keltic linguistic stronghold, contains, like Wales, strong vestiges of a pre-Keltic population. That this is not a short Mediterranean variety, on the whole, is shown by the fact that the stature of Cornwall is relatively tall, and the mean cephalic index of the duchy not particularly low. A large-bodied, muscular type, with a head which is frequently brachycephalic, is common here, and must be attributed to the Bronze Age invasions. It has been claimed, without statistical evidence,34 that there is a special racial type among the fishermen and sailors who live in the seaports of Cornwall, Devonshire, Somerset, and South Wales, but especially in Cornwall. Besides having medium or tall stature, and a tendency to brachycephaly, they are said to be heavy-bodied, lateral in build, thick-necked, with features of a somewhat Armenoid cast, dark, curly hair, thick eyebrows, and eyes which are frequently brown.
This type is recognized in local Keltic tradition, and according to one legend, is said to have been brought from Troy. It may also be associated with the strong local belief that the Cornish are descended from Phoenicians. That there is such a type cannot be proved without metrical evidence, but it will be recognized by most persons familiar with this part of England. It can also be found in Massachusetts among old Cape Cod families whose ancestors came from Cornwall and Devon.
The most difficult local British type to study, with present materials, is the long-headed brunet population of the remoter districts of Wales.35 It is evident, however, that under the category of brunet dolichocephals there are actually several racial types of different origins which have been preserved by the marginal geographical nature of this country, as have the more easily identified Beaker types of more recent arrival.
In the first place, the work of Fleure and James on the Plynlimon moorlands people of Cardiganshire, an isolated group who live for the most part as shepherds, shows that this region is the center for all Wales of the greatest concentration of brunet dolichocephaly; their work also indicates that a primitive human type, with large browridges, a low vault, a projecting occiput, sloping forehead, a broad face, and prognathism survives here, and is to be found in solution throughout most of Wales. That this type is a survival from pre-Neolithic times seems reasonable. The head lengths associated with it run well over 200 mm., in many cases over 210 mm., and the stature is usually under 170 cm. The moderate stature, the narrow vault breadth, and the brunet pigmentation, as well as the general morphological character, prevent this type from being closely associated with the large-headed northern Palaeolithic sub-stratum in Ireland; one is reminded rather of the early Combe Capelle skull, and to a lesser extent, of the Mesolithic men of Téviec in Brittany.
The majority of the brunet dolichocephals, however, belong rather to the Long Barrow race of Megalithic introduction from the eastern Mediterranean shorelands. A selected group of 46 men from all parts of Wales, but in many cases from the neighborhood of the Plynlimon district, with cephalic indices under 73.0, have a mean head length of 201 mm., a breadth of 144.2 mm., and a stature of 168.0 cm. If this dolichocephalic element were predominantly a small Mediterranean, one would expect both the head length and stature to be much less than they are. Many other series from other parts of Wales confirm the general head form character of this predominant dolichocephalic brunet element. That it has absorbed the earlier Mesolithic or Palaeolithic type is likely, for there is nothing in the English Long Barrow crania to indicate the importation of such a primitive variety as an end type.
If we consider that the Long Barrow type was in original form almost purely brown eyed, then it must be less important in the racial structure of Wales than the Keltic Iron Age Nordic, for in but few districts are brown eyes in the majority. It is possible, however, here as in Ireland, that there was an incipient blue-eyed condition among the Long Barrow people, as among living North Africans who belong to a closely similar type, and that in northwestern Europe this condition was increased through stimuli similar to those which produced blondism among other races.36
Among individual Welshmen it is possible to pick out individuals of a smaller Mediterranean type, similar to that of Spain and Portugal, and suggesting a survival from the Neolithic peoples of Windmill Hill cultural affiliation who entered southern Britain from the continent. This type is also easily isolated in the Midland factory districts, and among the Glasgow population. In Wales, however, it is difficult to separate it from the Long Barrow type, with which it is frequently associated. Von Eickstedt's series of 30 men from Llangynog in North Montgomeryshire, and from Kerry in the southern part of the same county, furnish the best anthropometric evidence of its presence. In both regions brunet pigmentation is characteristic; both series are mesocephalic. The mean stature of the Kerry men is 166.5 cm., of the Llangynog group 168.2 cm. The first mean is low enough to indicate a strong Mediterranean element. The head and face measurements, however, of both groups are much alike, and too great for a small Mediterranean series; the head length mean is 196 mm. in each, the breadth 154; the mention-nasion face height is 124 mm. in Kerry, 125 mm. in Llangynog; the bizygomatic of Kerry 140 mm., that of Llangynog 139 mm. The noses of each are roughly 53 mm. by 34 mm., the nasal indices -61.8 for Kerry, 62.8 for Llangynog.
The head breadth, face height, and face breadth are all a little too great for a small Mediterranean type, but an examination of the distribution curves of the two series eliminates this difficulty. The stature is strongly bimodal, with a smaller mode at 163 cm., and a larger peak at 169 cm.; head length has modes at 193 and 199 mm.; head breadth at 151 mm. and 157 mm.; the facial index at 86 and 92; the nasal index at 59 and 67. If we grant the small Mediterranean type a mean stature of 163 cm., a head length of 193 mm., and the lower facial and higher nasal indices, it assumes a metrical character which can easily be duplicated in the countries in which this type is more numerous and more easily identified, for example, Arabia and North Africa.
The pursuit of these early brunet survivals in remote districts of Wales must not, however, make us forget that the bulk of the evidence from that country as a whole indicates that the variety of Nordic to which the bearers of Kymric speech belonged is today nearly if not fully as important there as the totality of earlier human varieties.
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