Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

its probably not even that much.....

[quattro]

its probably not even that much.....

You might be right if you think that dogs from wolfs have a difference only 0.1%

[supporttheunderdog]

its probably not even that much.....

You might be right if you think that dogs from wolfs have a difference only 0.1%

The key point is that all humans are the same species - all being descended from a common ancestral group, possibly having a single original female ancestor in the dim and distant past - it's that that make racism both pointless and offensive. Dogs and wolves too are the same species - ie produce viable fertile pups, but dogs are thought to descend from four different wolf lines - some scientists say 125000 years ago some say 15000 years ago or so, with possible occasional cross-breeding between wolf and dog at various times.

[supporttheunderdog]

Now you are pakis

No: they have not yet made a significant contribution to the gene pool, and they could in any event be of Greek descent. There are some indications that in particular the Kalesh in NW Pakistan may have ancestors who were a part of Alexander's army.

The English are of Greek descent, they worshipped Apollo in Stonehenge.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/histo ... henge.html

One could (but for the Genetics) make the point that the Greeks are British, since the British were seemingly worshipping a sun god before the peoples who introduced the Greek language and Gods to what is now Greece entered the region. Stonehenge had been built over a period of about 1500 years and was complete by about 1600 BC, i.e. before/about the same time the first "Hellenic" Proto -Greek speaking peoples entered what is now Greece and before the presumed date of the Trojan war.

Indeed I understand Homer makes Apollo a Trojan god - not Achaean (the Trojans were not "Greek"- they were of different genos , had their own language and set of gods but Homer probably did not appreciate that point). Apollo is likely only later entered the Greek Pantheon, after 1600BC

As to Apollo worship at Stonehenge there is no doubt that Stonehenge has solar alignments to the Solstices, but sun god worship has been a common feature of many diverse societies. By the time Pythias was reported to have visited - possibly some time around 325BC , when Stonehenge had been finished for about 1300 years, there is little evidence to what use it was then being put. It may well be rather that , if the Britons were then using Stonehenge as a place of Worship of a sun god, they did not worship the Hellenic Apollo but Pythias took (or was given the name by a translator) the name of Apollo to express the concept.

[Piratis]

Unfortunately you keep using double standards as it suits you.

If in the term "English" you (wrongly) include the pre-historic people that lived in Britain before the Anglo-Saxons, then similarly you have to call "Greeks" the people who lived in Greece before the first Hellenic tribes arrived.

Ethnicities and nations are not about genes. It is naive to believe that if we go back enough in the past any modern nation can be traced back to a separate family or even the separate pre-historic tribe.

A nation is about a common culture, language, and most importantly identity. The English are a mix of the pre-historic people that arrived in the area at various times (those who build the Stonehenge), various other groups that arrived later, such as the Celts, the Romans, the Vikings, the Anglo-Saxons etc, and even people that continued going to Britain after that up until today. Now there are black people who call themselves English (those who win most medals for England in the Olympics) even thought their genes are obviously as different as possible from other English people.

The same goes for the Greeks, with the difference that the Greek civilization and identity is a far older one. Even in the era of separate city states there was a distinction between Greeks and none- Greeks.

As far as Cyprus goes, it is a Greek island like all the rest, with the only difference that imperialists have denied to us our freedom, and forcefully stopped Cyprus from being part of the Greek state, since they wanted to keep Cyprus separate and isolated, to make it easier for themselves to continue exploiting our island on our expense.

I don't tell you that you can not be English by using stupid theories about genes, and similarly you have no right to tell to us what our ethnicity is. Doing so only shows that you are a racist with an imperialist mentality who has no respect to the cultures and identities of other people.

[SpartanGamer]

Here's the most comprehensive study, so far, on Europeans; and as more information is added, hopefully jingoistic thinkers like dog will temper their archaic "understandings":

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/scien ... .html?_r=1

[kurupetos]

Here's the most comprehensive study, so far, on Europeans; and as more information is added, hopefully jingoistic thinkers like dog will temper their archaic "understandings":

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/scien ... .html?_r=1

Do you expect us to consider a study from NYT as a reliable, non-biased one? What a joke!

[kurupetos]

Now you are pakis

No: they have not yet made a significant contribution to the gene pool, and they could in any event be of Greek descent. There are some indications that in particular the Kalesh in NW Pakistan may have ancestors who were a part of Alexander's army.

The English are of Greek descent, they worshipped Apollo in Stonehenge.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/histo ... henge.html

One could (but for the Genetics) make the point that the Greeks are British, since the British were seemingly worshipping a sun god before the peoples who introduced the Greek language and Gods to what is now Greece entered the region. Stonehenge had been built over a period of about 1500 years and was complete by about 1600 BC, i.e. before/about the same time the first "Hellenic" Proto -Greek speaking peoples entered what is now Greece and before the presumed date of the Trojan war.

Indeed I understand Homer makes Apollo a Trojan god - not Achaean (the Trojans were not "Greek"- they were of different genos , had their own language and set of gods but Homer probably did not appreciate that point). Apollo is likely only later entered the Greek Pantheon, after 1600BC

As to Apollo worship at Stonehenge there is no doubt that Stonehenge has solar alignments to the Solstices, but sun god worship has been a common feature of many diverse societies. By the time Pythias was reported to have visited - possibly some time around 325BC , when Stonehenge had been finished for about 1300 years, there is little evidence to what use it was then being put. It may well be rather that , if the Britons were then using Stonehenge as a place of Worship of a sun god, they did not worship the Hellenic Apollo but Pythias took (or was given the name by a translator) the name of Apollo to express the concept.

The Trojans were Greeks since they worshipped the exact same Gods as the Myceneans, etc. Also they shared the same language.

The civilization in Britain was much more primitive than the Greek one, and therefore the Greeks could not have descented from the British. The Greeks settled in many places of the then known world and formed city-states. Through this the British, Romans and other barbaric people managed to get civilized and develop a culture.

[supporttheunderdog]

Is there any evidence (other than Homer?) to support the theory that the Trojans were Greek?

You are otherwise as bad as the father from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"

My own understanding was that Troy was probably a part of a country better translated at Wilusa, which was a part of the Luwian confederation speaking the Luwian Language, which is related to Ancient Hittite, not Greek.

The story that they were Greek is possibly based on Homer, however one has to remember that the Homeric poems were only written down some 600 years or so after the events they portray and they would not have recorded the Luwian Speech of the Trojans: other aspects would no doubt also have been transliterated such as names of deities,

Civilisation was in fact far older than the Greek Polis, and not restricted to them: for example one had the great States or Sumer, including Ur, which in 2000BC possibly had 65000 inhabitants, the Cypriote Civilisation of Engomi, the Hittite Empire, etc. one also had Egypt and the Phoenicians. Britain itself must have had quite a sophisticated society as far back as neolithic times to construct Stonehenge and other similar structures: the British however were illiterate at that time and left no written records.

[bill cobbett]

Now you are pakis

No: they have not yet made a significant contribution to the gene pool, and they could in any event be of Greek descent. There are some indications that in particular the Kalesh in NW Pakistan may have ancestors who were a part of Alexander's army.

The English are of Greek descent, they worshipped Apollo in Stonehenge.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/histo ... henge.html

One could (but for the Genetics) make the point that the Greeks are British, since the British were seemingly worshipping a sun god before the peoples who introduced the Greek language and Gods to what is now Greece entered the region. Stonehenge had been built over a period of about 1500 years and was complete by about 1600 BC, i.e. before/about the same time the first "Hellenic" Proto -Greek speaking peoples entered what is now Greece and before the presumed date of the Trojan war.

Indeed I understand Homer makes Apollo a Trojan god - not Achaean (the Trojans were not "Greek"- they were of different genos , had their own language and set of gods but Homer probably did not appreciate that point). Apollo is likely only later entered the Greek Pantheon, after 1600BC

As to Apollo worship at Stonehenge there is no doubt that Stonehenge has solar alignments to the Solstices, but sun god worship has been a common feature of many diverse societies. By the time Pythias was reported to have visited - possibly some time around 325BC , when Stonehenge had been finished for about 1300 years, there is little evidence to what use it was then being put. It may well be rather that , if the Britons were then using Stonehenge as a place of Worship of a sun god, they did not worship the Hellenic Apollo but Pythias took (or was given the name by a translator) the name of Apollo to express the concept.

The Trojans were Greeks since they worshipped the exact same Gods as the Myceneans, etc. Also they shared the same language.

The civilization in Britain was much more primitive than the Greek one, and therefore the Greeks could not have descented from the British. The Greeks settled in many places of the then known world and formed city-states. Through this the British, Romans and other barbaric people managed to get civilized and develop a culture.

Reh Kureppetos ... you get the CF Award Of The Week For Drivel ...

The earliest evidence at Stonhenge dates to the Mesolithic, about 8,000BC!!!!!!!!!!

What we see today is last of three or four phases.

So claims about Apollo being worshipped at Stonehenge are rubbish!!!!...

There's no evidence that anyone was worshipped at Stonehenge or in the surrounding ritually very rich landscape. It was prob an important ritual stage on an Ancestor Remembrance or Funerary Processional Route, with links to other nearby sites and to the River Avon, and so almost cert associated with Burial Customs, perhaps at mid-Winter, cos to those who believe that Stonehenge has significance as a mid-Summer marker, with all of the associated hype, suggest you turn around through 180 degrees and you'll see important evidence for the same well-known marker stones being mid-Winter Solstice indicators, and mid-winter has always been a far more significant time to mark in northern latitudes than mid-Summer.