Cyprus-Forum.com

[DTA]

two faced

You are right. This is my other face:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-clown.html
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A picture of a clown? We may be reaching a level of convergence that I did not think possible

[antifon]

two faced

You are right. This is my other face:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-clown.html
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A picture of a clown? We may be reaching a level of convergence that I did not think possible

You see? There is always hope!
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[Nikitas]

"Turkish Kurdish relations are more complex than they are being made out to be in this thread "

That is a fact. The same though can be said of the relations between any minority and the majority in any country, as can be said of the relations between TCs and Turks or GCs and Greeks.

The Kurds I have talked to cover a large spectrum of opinion, from the hardliners "indepencent Kurdistan or bust" types to the mildest "special status in Turkish society" types. So far I have never heard any Kurd express willingness to be "assimilated" in Turkish society and become totally Turkish. Again the same can be said of TCs, the parallels are hard to ignore. And the inescapable inference is that what is good for the TCs must be good for the Kurds. So why not opt for t hat solution in that problem? The question is rhetoriical of course. But at some point someone more powerful and influential than a mere forum poster is going to ask it.

[mem101]

"Turkish Kurdish relations are more complex than they are being made out to be in this thread "

That is a fact. The same though can be said of the relations between any minority and the majority in any country, as can be said of the relations between TCs and Turks or GCs and Greeks.

The Kurds I have talked to cover a large spectrum of opinion, from the hardliners "indepencent Kurdistan or bust" types to the mildest "special status in Turkish society" types. So far I have never heard any Kurd express willingness to be "assimilated" in Turkish society and become totally Turkish. Again the same can be said of TCs, the parallels are hard to ignore. And the inescapable inference is that what is good for the TCs must be good for the Kurds. So why not opt for t hat solution in that problem? The question is rhetoriical of course. But at some point someone more powerful and influential than a mere forum poster is going to ask it.

I met many Kurds in Turkey who draw little difference between themselves and Turks - they see themselves as Turkish too. In fact, the majority love Turkey as much as the next Turkish citizen. At the same time, there is overlap. Some simply want to be able to teach the Kurdish language in schools, some want Kurdish to be an official language in Turkey. The language issue is the one which comes up the most often. To be fair, my experiences were in Istanbul, the story is likely to be different in the east although to what extent I cannot say.

[DTA]

"Turkish Kurdish relations are more complex than they are being made out to be in this thread "

That is a fact. The same though can be said of the relations between any minority and the majority in any country, as can be said of the relations between TCs and Turks or GCs and Greeks.

The Kurds I have talked to cover a large spectrum of opinion, from the hardliners "indepencent Kurdistan or bust" types to the mildest "special status in Turkish society" types. So far I have never heard any Kurd express willingness to be "assimilated" in Turkish society and become totally Turkish. Again the same can be said of TCs, the parallels are hard to ignore. And the inescapable inference is that what is good for the TCs must be good for the Kurds. So why not opt for t hat solution in that problem? The question is rhetoriical of course. But at some point someone more powerful and influential than a mere forum poster is going to ask it.

I met many Kurds in Turkey who draw little difference between themselves and Turks - they see themselves as Turkish too. In fact, the majority love Turkey as much as the next Turkish citizen. At the same time, there is overlap. Some simply want to be able to teach the Kurdish language in schools, some want Kurdish to be an official language in Turkey. The language issue is the one which comes up the most often. To be fair, my experiences were in Istanbul, the story is likely to be different in the east although to what extent I cannot say.

I know a lot of kurdish people from all over including the east of Turkey (now in london) and I will say beyond doubt that what you have expressed to me is pretty much their view as well.

I do also think that The kurds of Turkey have been treated unfairly, and when I was explained by a Kurdish Friend about stuff that I was ignorant of I was quite frankly shocked. But the fact remains that Kurdish and Turkish people are the closest two ethnicities that I know of- save for a few nationalist idiots on both sides.

[antifon]

"Turkish Kurdish relations are more complex than they are being made out to be in this thread "

That is a fact. The same though can be said of the relations between any minority and the majority in any country, as can be said of the relations between TCs and Turks or GCs and Greeks.

The Kurds I have talked to cover a large spectrum of opinion, from the hardliners "indepencent Kurdistan or bust" types to the mildest "special status in Turkish society" types. So far I have never heard any Kurd express willingness to be "assimilated" in Turkish society and become totally Turkish. Again the same can be said of TCs, the parallels are hard to ignore. And the inescapable inference is that what is good for the TCs must be good for the Kurds. So why not opt for t hat solution in that problem? The question is rhetoriical of course. But at some point someone more powerful and influential than a mere forum poster is going to ask it.

I met many Kurds in Turkey who draw little difference between themselves and Turks - they see themselves as Turkish too. In fact, the majority love Turkey as much as the next Turkish citizen. At the same time, there is overlap. Some simply want to be able to teach the Kurdish language in schools, some want Kurdish to be an official language in Turkey. The language issue is the one which comes up the most often. To be fair, my experiences were in Istanbul, the story is likely to be different in the east although to what extent I cannot say.

I know a lot of kurdish people from all over including the east of Turkey (now in london) and I will say beyond doubt that what you have expressed to me is pretty much their view as well.

I do also think that The kurds of Turkey have been treated unfairly, and when I was explained by a Kurdish Friend about stuff that I was ignorant of I was quite frankly shocked. But the fact remains that Kurdish and Turkish people are the closest two ethnicities that I know of- save for a few nationalist idiots on both sides.

The closest two ethnicities that you know of? You don't know much, do you?

"Deputies from the Peace and Democracy Party benefit from immunity that protects them from prosecution, yet 19 deputies are still facing a whopping 2,606 years in jail for various offenses. ‘The government talks about the freedom of thought in this country but deputies who open their mouths on the country’s Kurdish issue face threats of imprisonment,’ the party’s co-chair says"
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-03-18

There is nothing Turkey can do to prevent her Cyprification in as far as her Kurdish issue is concerned!

Alea iacta est!
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[Viewpoint]

Im sure this anti person is a Kurd in disguise.

[antifon]

Im sure this anti person is a Kurd in disguise.

Let's proceed on the hypothesis that I am. If I were we would have these two very strong bonds:

1. We are both Muslims
2. We are both minorities in our respective countries


If I were a Kurd, I would be telling you:

1. Like you, I too want the right to celebrate my ethnicity

2. Like you, I too want my language to be an official language of my country

3. Like you, I too want for my 20 million strong community to have political recognition as a COMMUNITY, a promised left unfilled since 1923 & a broken promise that has resulted in heinous forced assimilation policies by ethnic Turks against ethnic Kurds & over 100.000 deaths.

4. Like you, I too want the right to fly my Kurdish flag freely

5. Like you, I too want to have guaranteed representation in state positions, representation that in the case of security positions is 122% above our numbers & in the case of all other public positions 67% above our actual numbers.

6. Like you, I too want the right of a foreign country to intervene in my country's affairs if my life or community status is ever threatened again. For we are a nation asked to surrender itself not just for a time, but for perpetuity ... an on-going tragedy, unabated, for some 87 years.

7. Like you, I too want to have a permanent Kurdish Vice President, who can veto just about every decision in governemnt.

8. Like you, I TOO WANT EQUALITY IN MY COUNTRY WITH THE ETHNIC TURKS, the same way you demand it.

9. Like you, if a 1960-like unitary solution cannot be made to work, I want my country to be transformed into a BBF in whose affairs Turks and Kurds decide separately all important issues. After all, I have more of a right than you to a "zone", as I have been living in my lands for a thousand years before Turks ever set foot on my lands, whereas you came to a land a couple of hundred years ago to live amongst an ancient people who can trace their roots all the way back to Hellenic times (and before), lived as a minority across the land & NEVER did you have contiguous land to call your own.

9. Unlike you, I do not live in homes that do not belong to me, and unlike you I do not pretend to own towns which clearly are not mine. Unlike you I do not paint on Istanbul hills "How proud I am to be a Kurd". Unlike you I do not remain passive in face of invasion, occupation, ethnic cleansing and colonization for 37 years, and only remember to come out in force when they cut my paycheck.

10. Unlike you, who would have been invented had you not existed, I wait for someone to discover me in my millennia-long existence.


You see, if I were a Kurd indeeed, we would have the above and a number of other things to share. For you and I are minorities in unitary states where the majorities have treated us less than perfect.

If I were a Kurd, I would be more like you.
If I were a Kurd, I would say thank you for allowing me to see the way my future can be, thank you for allowing the Turks to show me the way they understand majority-minority relations, so that I can point to you and ask for the same treatment.

After all they owe me big time:

Unlike you who stood against your majority compatriots when they sought their right of self-determination for the land they live on for at least 3.500 years, I fought on the side of my Turkish brothers to fight the invading enemies in 1923. Only to be cheated by non other than Kemal Yourfather [but certainly not mine] immediately after!

[Viewpoint]

anti I have said to you before that I support not only the rights of the Kurds in Turkey but also their right to have their own state, do you support my right for my own independent state?

[antifon]

anti I have said to you before that I support not only the rights of the Kurds in Turkey but also their right to have their own state, do you support my right for my own independent state?

No.

You never had and never will have land in Cyprus to call your own. Kurds do in "Turkey", thus their right for self-determination is reasonable and based on historical facts. Your demand is based on ILLEGALITY: invasion, occupation, ethnic cleansing, and colonization. All crimes waiting to be punished.

That's the BASIC difference between the two minorities.
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