Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

On your last point, if you go back far enough, that may be as late as 5400BC but possibly a bit before, you too will probably share an ancestor with both Shakespeare and Jack the Ripper (and everyone else alive today) - DnA is not a marker of either criminality or culture but only of likely ancestry, bearing in mind that ultimately all humans are related and are thus all equal. That is why the Nazis, the Apartheid supporters of South Africa, the segregationists in the USA the current white supremacists, their counter parts in black supremacy movement are all so very wrong in claiming that differences in inherited characteristics which define race make one group superior to or inferior to any other group, which may not share the same characteristics

[Bananiot]

Have you been reading "Genome", by Matt Riddly?

[denizaksulu]

can you put in some dates about when you say Cyprus became Greek, or for that matter when Greece became Greek, on the basis of the Introduction of a language related to Greek and say worship of the Greek Pantheon lead by Zeus, and explain how this process happened?

Go on- educate me -

My own understanding is that the area from the fertile crescent through to what is now Greece (and including Anatolia and Cyprus) had been settled by several successive waves who had probably come along the coast in the period from about 10000 BC onwards, to before 2000BC ( probably YDNA E1B1, G, I, J, )- they formed the great civilisations of the fertile crescent, Enkomi in Cyprus, and the Minoan Civilisation of Crete, as well as the original population of what is now Greece, - they had writing - but they were not in any way Greek as they did not speak a Greek related language and they did not worship the Greek pantheon lead by Zeus, but principally a female mother Goddess.

The first peoples recognsieable as Greek reportedly only entered Greece from the north from about the beginning to Middle of the 2nd Millennium BC: they were Indo-European originating on the Russian Steppes with Ydna R1. They were the Hellenes consisting of the four tribes of Achaeans, Dorian Ionians and Aeolian. They spoke a language that was the direct forerunner of Greek and worshiped the pantheon of goods led by Zeus. The exact sequence of arrivals is not clear but the Achaeans probably began to dominate the Southern part of Greece from about 1600 BC, meeting and conquering the (non Greek) Minoans in about 1500 BC, and forming the Mycenaean Civilisation. They were probably functionally illiterate to start with, only acquiring writing (Linear B, a modified form of Linear A) from the Minoans.

Greekness (i.e language and religion, etc) appear to have become dominant in Greece and Crete through elitist ascendancy./forceable imposition.

The Mycenaeans however traded with Cyprus, principally with Enkomi (an important state in those days with the export of Copper and possibly where Nefertiti came from) and at about 1200-1050 BC coinciding with the collapse of the the Mycenaean civilisation in Greece some remnants appear to have conquered (and rebuilt) Enkomi.

These remnants still appear to have been functionally illiterate as they did not use their own linear B script but probably used local scribes to write for them in the Phonetic Cypriot Syllabary. which later became the basis for the Greek Alphabet.

These Mycenaean remnants do not appear to have dominated the whole Island: the original Cypriot language appeared to have survived - in particular at Amathus, while the Phoenicians (and not the "Greeks") appear to have started colonies in the 9th century BC onwards, for example taking Kition from the Mycenaean. ( I understand the Athenians may have looked upon and refered to the original ZoC as Phoenician)

It was only in about 300 BC with the conquest of Cyprus by Ptolomy that non Greek languages were suppressed and Hellenisation forcibly imposed on the whole Island.

The Ydna does however suggest that relatively few Cypriots are R1 in Origin (so are not descended from the true R1 Hellenes) and for that matter that the majority of Greeks do not have R1 Dna but their Genos can be rather more closely traced back to the original E1b1 G I J peoples who inhabited the area before the R1 Hellenic peoples arrived.

Very interesting and believable argument there StUd as far as the bloodline is concerned. Thanks for that.

Needless to say that Piratis will still play his old well worn:



As to the architectural evidence, Byzantine......

Well the French building a Pyramid in the middle of Paris does not make them Egyptian.
(just joking)

All very thought provoking.

[Piratis]

can you put in some dates about when you say Cyprus became Greek, or for that matter when Greece became Greek, on the basis of the Introduction of a language related to Greek and say worship of the Greek Pantheon lead by Zeus, and explain how this process happened?

Go on- educate me -

My own understanding is that the area from the fertile crescent through to what is now Greece (and including Anatolia and Cyprus) had been settled by several successive waves who had probably come along the coast in the period from about 10000 BC onwards, to before 2000BC ( probably YDNA E1B1, G, I, J, )- they formed the great civilisations of the fertile crescent, Enkomi in Cyprus, and the Minoan Civilisation of Crete, as well as the original population of what is now Greece, - they had writing - but they were not in any way Greek as they did not speak a Greek related language and they did not worship the Greek pantheon lead by Zeus, but principally a female mother Goddess.

The first peoples recognsieable as Greek reportedly only entered Greece from the north from about the beginning to Middle of the 2nd Millennium BC: they were Indo-European originating on the Russian Steppes with Ydna R1. They were the Hellenes consisting of the four tribes of Achaeans, Dorian Ionians and Aeolian. They spoke a language that was the direct forerunner of Greek and worshiped the pantheon of goods led by Zeus. The exact sequence of arrivals is not clear but the Achaeans probably began to dominate the Southern part of Greece from about 1600 BC, meeting and conquering the (non Greek) Minoans in about 1500 BC, and forming the Mycenaean Civilisation. They were probably functionally illiterate to start with, only acquiring writing (Linear B, a modified form of Linear A) from the Minoans.

Greekness (i.e language and religion, etc) appear to have become dominant in Greece and Crete through elitist ascendancy./forceable imposition.

The Mycenaeans however traded with Cyprus, principally with Enkomi (an important state in those days with the export of Copper and possibly where Nefertiti came from) and at about 1200-1050 BC coinciding with the collapse of the the Mycenaean civilisation in Greece some remnants appear to have conquered (and rebuilt) Enkomi.

These remnants still appear to have been functionally illiterate as they did not use their own linear B script but probably used local scribes to write for them in the Phonetic Cypriot Syllabary. which later became the basis for the Greek Alphabet.

These Mycenaean remnants do not appear to have dominated the whole Island: the original Cypriot language appeared to have survived - in particular at Amathus, while the Phoenicians (and not the "Greeks") appear to have started colonies in the 9th century BC onwards, for example taking Kition from the Mycenaean. ( I understand the Athenians may have looked upon and refered to the original ZoC as Phoenician)

It was only in about 300 BC with the conquest of Cyprus by Ptolomy that non Greek languages were suppressed and Hellenisation forcibly imposed on the whole Island.

The Ydna does however suggest that relatively few Cypriots are R1 in Origin (so are not descended from the true R1 Hellenes) and for that matter that the majority of Greeks do not have R1 Dna but their Genos can be rather more closely traced back to the original E1b1 G I J peoples who inhabited the area before the R1 Hellenic peoples arrived.

Regarding the DNA issues, I am not a specialist, and, unlike you, I'd rather not talk about thinks I am not certain. I made a request to Admin to un-ban Oracle, and hopefully Oracle can come back to educate you on this aspect. What I can tell you is that ethnicity and nationality has nothing to do with DNA. Only Nazi fascists like you would try to use such lame arguments to deny to people their right for freedom and self-determination. Ethnic groups and nations are created by many different people who unite and create a common language, culture, religion and identity (and sometimes a nation or ethnic group can be created with even less such elements).

Humans on this planet existed for 100s of thousands of years and obviously there have been pre-historic people in Cyprus and all other Greek islands and territories, but this is the same for all other places, including your "England". Who do you think build the Stonehenge? The "English"?

The difference is that the Mycenaeans came to Cyprus long before the AngloSaxons went to what today you call "England", at a time when most parts of Cyprus were still uninhabited.

Beyond that all your claims about those times are unsubstantiated. What motivates you is not any knowledge on the topic, but just hate against anything Greek. Archaeological evidence show that Greek was the language used by the majority of the Cypriot people long before Cyprus passed to the Ptolemy, while there is no evidence of suppression or any forcibly imposed Hellenisation. Therefore what you wrote above are just your own baseless claims, which have nothing to do with reality. It is perfectly natural that non-Greek minorities would gradually adopt the language of the majority, especially in a time that Greek was the "lingua franca" of the known world.

We are talking about a time when there was absolutely nothing English in what you today call "England", and absolutely nothing Turkish in what you today call "Turkey" (to give just few examples). Our Greek roots on this island are far far deeper than the roots most other ethnic groups have on their own homelands, and yet you come here to tell us what we are and what our island is! As I said before, you can force your rule, deny to us our rights and freedoms, but you can't change our identity.

[DTA]

Will admin 'unban' gasman as well?

[Sotos]

Will admin 'unban' gasman as well?

I don't think there is anybody who asked to be educated on the subject of farting

[SpartanGamer]

Have you been reading "Genome", by Matt Riddly?

Good point!

Here are some concluding remarks from the chapter on "Pre-History":

"Genes, in other words, support the evidence from linguistics"

"The message is plain. Languages and peoples do, to some extent, go together".

Now, would "stud" like to explain the "ethics" behind his, selective, choice of single haplotypes used to support his unfounded theories?

Or would he prefer to explain why the majority of Cypriots speak Greek but, according to his "theories" they have no genetic "identity" with mainlanders?

Further, perhaps, he can dwell on why the Turks thought it so important to wipe out pre-existing languages when they set about "nation" building?

[Sotos]

Or would he prefer to explain why the majority of Cypriots speak Greek but, according to his "theories" they have no genetic "identity" with mainlanders?

If Greeks didn't come to Cyprus then how Cypriots started to speak Greek? Could it be that the Greeks were the first to invent distance learning courses and the courses were so great that Cypriots adopted Greek as their own language?

[Sotos]

oh wait ... supporttheunderdog said that a few uneducated Mycenaean remnants came to Cyprus ... so maybe these few uneducated Mycenaeans taught Greek to everybody else?

[denizaksulu]

can you put in some dates about when you say Cyprus became Greek, or for that matter when Greece became Greek, on the basis of the Introduction of a language related to Greek and say worship of the Greek Pantheon lead by Zeus, and explain how this process happened?

Go on- educate me -

My own understanding is that the area from the fertile crescent through to what is now Greece (and including Anatolia and Cyprus) had been settled by several successive waves who had probably come along the coast in the period from about 10000 BC onwards, to before 2000BC ( probably YDNA E1B1, G, I, J, )- they formed the great civilisations of the fertile crescent, Enkomi in Cyprus, and the Minoan Civilisation of Crete, as well as the original population of what is now Greece, - they had writing - but they were not in any way Greek as they did not speak a Greek related language and they did not worship the Greek pantheon lead by Zeus, but principally a female mother Goddess.

The first peoples recognsieable as Greek reportedly only entered Greece from the north from about the beginning to Middle of the 2nd Millennium BC: they were Indo-European originating on the Russian Steppes with Ydna R1. They were the Hellenes consisting of the four tribes of Achaeans, Dorian Ionians and Aeolian. They spoke a language that was the direct forerunner of Greek and worshiped the pantheon of goods led by Zeus. The exact sequence of arrivals is not clear but the Achaeans probably began to dominate the Southern part of Greece from about 1600 BC, meeting and conquering the (non Greek) Minoans in about 1500 BC, and forming the Mycenaean Civilisation. They were probably functionally illiterate to start with, only acquiring writing (Linear B, a modified form of Linear A) from the Minoans.

Greekness (i.e language and religion, etc) appear to have become dominant in Greece and Crete through elitist ascendancy./forceable imposition.

The Mycenaeans however traded with Cyprus, principally with Enkomi (an important state in those days with the export of Copper and possibly where Nefertiti came from) and at about 1200-1050 BC coinciding with the collapse of the the Mycenaean civilisation in Greece some remnants appear to have conquered (and rebuilt) Enkomi.

These remnants still appear to have been functionally illiterate as they did not use their own linear B script but probably used local scribes to write for them in the Phonetic Cypriot Syllabary. which later became the basis for the Greek Alphabet.

These Mycenaean remnants do not appear to have dominated the whole Island: the original Cypriot language appeared to have survived - in particular at Amathus, while the Phoenicians (and not the "Greeks") appear to have started colonies in the 9th century BC onwards, for example taking Kition from the Mycenaean. ( I understand the Athenians may have looked upon and refered to the original ZoC as Phoenician)

It was only in about 300 BC with the conquest of Cyprus by Ptolomy that non Greek languages were suppressed and Hellenisation forcibly imposed on the whole Island.

The Ydna does however suggest that relatively few Cypriots are R1 in Origin (so are not descended from the true R1 Hellenes) and for that matter that the majority of Greeks do not have R1 Dna but their Genos can be rather more closely traced back to the original E1b1 G I J peoples who inhabited the area before the R1 Hellenic peoples arrived.

Regarding the DNA issues, I am not a specialist, and, unlike you, I'd rather not talk about thinks I am not certain. I made a request to Admin to un-ban Oracle, and hopefully Oracle can come back to educate you on this aspect. What I can tell you is that ethnicity and nationality has nothing to do with DNA. Only Nazi fascists like you would try to use such lame arguments to deny to people their right for freedom and self-determination. Ethnic groups and nations are created by many different people who unite and create a common language, culture, religion and identity (and sometimes a nation or ethnic group can be created with even less such elements).

Humans on this planet existed for 100s of thousands of years and obviously there have been pre-historic people in Cyprus and all other Greek islands and territories, but this is the same for all other places, including your "England". Who do you think build the Stonehenge? The "English"?

The difference is that the Mycenaeans came to Cyprus long before the AngloSaxons went to what today you call "England", at a time when most parts of Cyprus were still uninhabited.

Beyond that all your claims about those times are unsubstantiated. What motivates you is not any knowledge on the topic, but just hate against anything Greek. Archaeological evidence show that Greek was the language used by the majority of the Cypriot people long before Cyprus passed to the Ptolemy, while there is no evidence of suppression or any forcibly imposed Hellenisation. Therefore what you wrote above are just your own baseless claims, which have nothing to do with reality. It is perfectly natural that non-Greek minorities would gradually adopt the language of the majority, especially in a time that Greek was the "lingua franca" of the known world.

We are talking about a time when there was absolutely nothing English in what you today call "England", and absolutely nothing Turkish in what you today call "Turkey" (to give just few examples). Our Greek roots on this island are far far deeper than the roots most other ethnic groups have on their own homelands, and yet you come here to tell us what we are and what our island is! As I said before, you can force your rule, deny to us our rights and freedoms, but you can't change our identity.

I support you in ADMIN un-banning all 'naughty little girls'; not just one to suit your own purposes.