Cyprus-Forum.com

[mem101]

In fact, the Turks and English should start packing now...

[supporttheunderdog]

Do you mean the British, in terms of the bases? Do not confuse Britain and the British with England and the English?

I quite agree there is some scope for discussion of the status of the SBA - however I as an Englishman but a British Citizen and Citizen of the EU intend to exercise my EU granted rights to live and work here - indeed as I have legally done since 2000 with the permission of the RoC Government.

[mem101]

You are quite right. I only intended to refer to the British Sovereign Bases in Cyprus. Sorry for the poor choice of wording.

[supporttheunderdog]

PS I agree with the thrust of your thread about the ancestry of the Cypriots, where I suspect probably few Greek speaking Cypriots have any significant Greek Ancestry - similarly I understand that many current Greeks can trace the majority of their decent back to the inhabitants of the area now known as Greece who were there before the first of those who spoke the forerunner of the Greek Language (The four true Hellenic tribes) arrived in the area, about 3500 or so years ago, while Likewise I understand recent research in Turkey suggests the majority there are principally descended from equally old Anatolian populations - I understand The Turkic peoples probably only arrived probably 1500 years ago.

I suspect Greekness in Cyprus and Turkishness in Turkey was imposed through a process of Elitist Ascendancy involving Cultural-Political dominance.

In Cyprus this process could have started in about 1200BC but was only ultimately made certain by the conquests Alexander the Macedonian and his successors, the Ptolomies. Everything is probably myth, some of it probably 19th Century.

I laugh when some of the more rabid flyers of the Greek Flag on this forum talk about national self-determination, when they in fact mean national self-destruction, and the subsumation of Cyprus by Greece. That IMHO would probably have led to (a) a Greek-Turkish war with the probable invasion of the Island in any event and (b) the conversion of Cyprus into an economic/social backwater, sucked dry by Greece.

[quattro]

PS I agree with the thrust of your thread about the ancestry of the Cypriots, where I suspect probably few Greek speaking Cypriots have any significant Greek Ancestry - similarly I understand that many current Greeks can trace the majority of their decent back to the inhabitants of the area now known as Greece who were there before the first of those who spoke the forerunner of the Greek Language (The four true Hellenic tribes) arrived in the area, about 3500 or so years ago, while Likewise I understand recent research in Turkey suggests the majority there are principally descended from equally old Anatolian populations - I understand The Turkic peoples probably only arrived probably 1500 years ago.

I suspect Greekness in Cyprus and Turkishness in Turkey was imposed through a process of Elitist Ascendancy involving Cultural-Political dominance.

In Cyprus this process could have started in about 1200BC but was only ultimately made certain by the conquests Alexander the Macedonian and his successors, the Ptolomies. Everything is probably myth, some of it probably 19th Century.

I laugh when some of the more rabid flyers of the Greek Flag on this forum talk about national self-determination, when they in fact mean national self-destruction, and the subsumation of Cyprus by Greece. That IMHO would probably have led to (a) a Greek-Turkish war with the probable invasion of the Island in any event and (b) the conversion of Cyprus into an economic/social backwater, sucked dry by Greece.

this is starting to be a habit for me

Support the Underdog

[Piratis]

PS I agree with the thrust of your thread about the ancestry of the Cypriots, where I suspect probably few Greek speaking Cypriots have any significant Greek Ancestry - similarly I understand that many current Greeks can trace the majority of their decent back to the inhabitants of the area now known as Greece who were there before the first of those who spoke the forerunner of the Greek Language (The four true Hellenic tribes) arrived in the area, about 3500 or so years ago, while Likewise I understand recent research in Turkey suggests the majority there are principally descended from equally old Anatolian populations - I understand The Turkic peoples probably only arrived probably 1500 years ago.

I suspect Greekness in Cyprus and Turkishness in Turkey was imposed through a process of Elitist Ascendancy involving Cultural-Political dominance.

In Cyprus this process could have started in about 1200BC but was only ultimately made certain by the conquests Alexander the Macedonian and his successors, the Ptolomies. Everything is probably myth, some of it probably 19th Century.

I laugh when some of the more rabid flyers of the Greek Flag on this forum talk about national self-determination, when they in fact mean national self-destruction, and the subsumation of Cyprus by Greece. That IMHO would probably have led to (a) a Greek-Turkish war with the probable invasion of the Island in any event and (b) the conversion of Cyprus into an economic/social backwater, sucked dry by Greece.

You should talk about your own nation and tell us how far back you can trace your own ancestors in your own homeland, tell us why London, Glasgow and Falklands should be united, tell us how black and yellow people can call themselves English, tell us why you joined the EU etc. What we do with our own nation is not your problem and it should be only up to us to decide.

Turkey had no interest in Cyprus until the British enticed them, as part of their divide and rule plan that could help them to maintain part of our island under colonial rule. As a British citizen you should accept the crimes your nation committed against ours, rather than trying to blame us for seeking our freedom.

The unfortunate truth is that neither the British nor the Turks ever cared to give to Cyprus any true independence. What they wanted was to isolate Cyprus from the rest of the Greek nation so they can continue to easily abuse and exploit our island.

Sure, being part of a bigger country means that each citizen has less say, and that the place where you live might be further from the capital. But on the upside, the bigger the country the more powerful it is and the easier it is to protect itself from others. From the pseudo independence forced on Cyprus and the problems that resulted from it I would rather have what they have in Crete, Rhodes or any other Greek island.

[mem101]

Piratis, do you believe the RoC should disolve and that Cyprus should become a part of Greece?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis, do you believe the RoC should disolve and that Cyprus should become a part of Greece?

He still claims Cyprus is a Greek island.

[Bananiot]

Its heart-warming to have you with us dear friend mem, your posts are a breath of fresh air.

[supporttheunderdog]

You should talk about your own nation and tell us how far back you can trace your own ancestors in your own homeland, tell us why London, Glasgow and Falklands should be united, tell us how black and yellow people can call themselves English, tell us why you joined the EU etc. What we do with our own nation is not your problem and it should be only up to us to decide.

Turkey had no interest in Cyprus until the British enticed them, as part of their divide and rule plan that could help them to maintain part of our island under colonial rule. As a British citizen you should accept the crimes your nation committed against ours, rather than trying to blame us for seeking our freedom.

The unfortunate truth is that neither the British nor the Turks ever cared to give to Cyprus any true independence. What they wanted was to isolate Cyprus from the rest of the Greek nation so they can continue to easily abuse and exploit our island.

Sure, being part of a bigger country means that each citizen has less say, and that the place where you live might be further from the capital. But on the upside, the bigger the country the more powerful it is and the easier it is to protect itself from others. From the pseudo independence forced on Cyprus and the problems that resulted from it I would rather have what they have in Crete, Rhodes or any other Greek island.

here we go - the same old diversionary tactics- dont like the topic- cant deakl withe the answer so lets try to deflect! On yer bike. I am however living and working here, and you will NOT shut me up on Cyprus.

As an aside Black and yellow people should not and probably would not call themselves English, but if they hold the pasport thay can rightly call themsleves British - the two are different - one (ie English) is ethnicity based upon descent the other (British) is nationality - I am both English by ethnic orgin and British by citizenship. However We are not discussing the origins of the English but the Cyproits, the majority of whom may have spoken Greek but are not probably not substantialy descended from anyone who is Truly Greek: Cyprus never has been a part of Greece. Both were at times part of the same empire
(a) Under Alexander
(b) from 55BC under the Romans to about 1190 or so as a part of the successor Byzantine Empire
(c) from 1571 to 1828 as part of the Ottoman Empire,

I have otherwise previously made the point myself that British motives were not at all altruistic towards Cyprus but motivated by its own geopolitical ideas - particularly probably post Suez 1956. I am not going to apologise for the acts of Britain.

I repeat - Cyprus was nver a part of the Greek nation - that only emerged in 1821.

As for Turkey in 1955 it was then just about 30 years since the major Greco-Turkish war and at that point Turkey was just beginning to assert itself as a local power - there were already Anti-Greek riots - and I suspect that rather then being invited to the party by Britain, Turkey invited itself, having decided that despite the 1953 treaty, a Greek Outpost in that location was not acceptable. (The situation in 1947, when Rhodes was handed by Italians to Greece, was very different: Turkey was impoverished and facing threats from the east - there had been a short war with Russia in 1945 and Turkey was not in a position to act - by 1955 a lot had changed).

As for seeking Freedom? No it was giving it away to Greece! All those supporting Enosis after 1960 were in my view traitors to the ROC