Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...Cyprus is as close to Lebanese, as to Greeks, it seems, the graph being a spatial sphere. ...sorta made me wonder, what came first, Cyprus and other island states, then Greece; or the other way around.

[denizaksulu]

I read through the study you pointed me at and I thought about pointing out that the size of the sample of TCs taken in the study represented the smallest of any region. But the authors themselves point this out.

I know they (politely) made a point of sampling 106 TCs. Yet, the sample from Crete was only 112, and the others not much more; so maybe they were just trying to be 'forgiving' since the obvious conclusion is ...... but, I've already told you.

You seem to be drawing your own conclusions from non-exhaustive data. The 35delG mutation seems to have originated in Crete (you'll have to read the authors' discussion about this and the history Crete for a fuller explanation). Mainland Greece has a lower percentage of carriers and southern Cyprus lower still.

I'm the first to avoid drawing conclusions from "non-exhaustive data". Yet, after repeated requests, you failed to provide any evidence for your conclusion that Greek Cyriots and "Turkish Cypriots" are "brothers". I therefore pointed you in the direction of something a little more scientific than "wish"-ful thinking - the sort of myth-busting evidence that makes people think.

If you think this proves that Cyprus is "Greek" without considering any other data, genetic or otherwise,

Oh, but there is PLENTY of other data (cultural, historical, linguistic etc) - It is in fact you who chooses to ignore it all in preference for some pie-in the sky "wish" that some recently imposed 'visitors', who have brought nothing but trouble to Cyprus, are "brothers" of GCs and to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.

... southern Cyprus having less than half the carrier rates of Crete

Crete does have the highest rate and all other (present and past) Greek territories have diminishing amounts depending on the distance from Crete. Sounds pretty perfectly in line with Greek Cypriots being part of the Greek peoples and their past and present territories.

To quote the researchers on this point:

"...there are some correspondences between the relative prevalences for the 35delG mutation and historico-geographic events concerning Ancient Greek Territories and successive colonizations."

I was aware that my ideas were not conclusive facts and made that clear. The point was to unite, to have a starting point, a common history and background. If my ideas about that turn out to be wrong, fair enough. It wouldn't really change anything though. We have still both shared the island for many many generations and need to solve the problem at hand.

Excellent! You are getting there ... but we don't need to make out we ever "shared" the island (you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us) or that our "common history" was anything other than a millstone around GCs' necks.

But, I agree that the TCs have a place in a fully-free and Democratic Cyprus where they can take their place, like every other RoC-respecting citizen from wherever they (legally) arrive. They don't have to be my "brothers" for me to get along with them ...

You said this, "(you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us). Which Cypriot did that? Whoever taxed you, whether the Porte or the Archbishops, they taxed ALL & SUNDRY, whether they were moslem or non-moslem. (or TC or GC if you like). With all these studies going on, what percentage of TCs do you claim to be of 100% TURKISH exctraction; do you have any idea?

[quattro]

I read through the study you pointed me at and I thought about pointing out that the size of the sample of TCs taken in the study represented the smallest of any region. But the authors themselves point this out.

I know they (politely) made a point of sampling 106 TCs. Yet, the sample from Crete was only 112, and the others not much more; so maybe they were just trying to be 'forgiving' since the obvious conclusion is ...... but, I've already told you.

You seem to be drawing your own conclusions from non-exhaustive data. The 35delG mutation seems to have originated in Crete (you'll have to read the authors' discussion about this and the history Crete for a fuller explanation). Mainland Greece has a lower percentage of carriers and southern Cyprus lower still.

I'm the first to avoid drawing conclusions from "non-exhaustive data". Yet, after repeated requests, you failed to provide any evidence for your conclusion that Greek Cyriots and "Turkish Cypriots" are "brothers". I therefore pointed you in the direction of something a little more scientific than "wish"-ful thinking - the sort of myth-busting evidence that makes people think.

If you think this proves that Cyprus is "Greek" without considering any other data, genetic or otherwise,

Oh, but there is PLENTY of other data (cultural, historical, linguistic etc) - It is in fact you who chooses to ignore it all in preference for some pie-in the sky "wish" that some recently imposed 'visitors', who have brought nothing but trouble to Cyprus, are "brothers" of GCs and to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.

... southern Cyprus having less than half the carrier rates of Crete

Crete does have the highest rate and all other (present and past) Greek territories have diminishing amounts depending on the distance from Crete. Sounds pretty perfectly in line with Greek Cypriots being part of the Greek peoples and their past and present territories.

To quote the researchers on this point:

"...there are some correspondences between the relative prevalences for the 35delG mutation and historico-geographic events concerning Ancient Greek Territories and successive colonizations."

I was aware that my ideas were not conclusive facts and made that clear. The point was to unite, to have a starting point, a common history and background. If my ideas about that turn out to be wrong, fair enough. It wouldn't really change anything though. We have still both shared the island for many many generations and need to solve the problem at hand.

Excellent! You are getting there ... but we don't need to make out we ever "shared" the island (you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us) or that our "common history" was anything other than a millstone around GCs' necks.

But, I agree that the TCs have a place in a fully-free and Democratic Cyprus where they can take their place, like every other RoC-respecting citizen from wherever they (legally) arrive. They don't have to be my "brothers" for me to get along with them ...

You said this, "(you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us). Which Cypriot did that? Whoever taxed you, whether the Porte or the Archbishops, they taxed ALL & SUNDRY, whether they were moslem or non-moslem. (or TC or GC if you like). With all these studies going on, what percentage of TCs do you claim to be of 100% TURKISH exctraction; do you have any idea?

Louroujatis are off the hook i suppose

[denizaksulu]

I read through the study you pointed me at and I thought about pointing out that the size of the sample of TCs taken in the study represented the smallest of any region. But the authors themselves point this out.

I know they (politely) made a point of sampling 106 TCs. Yet, the sample from Crete was only 112, and the others not much more; so maybe they were just trying to be 'forgiving' since the obvious conclusion is ...... but, I've already told you.

You seem to be drawing your own conclusions from non-exhaustive data. The 35delG mutation seems to have originated in Crete (you'll have to read the authors' discussion about this and the history Crete for a fuller explanation). Mainland Greece has a lower percentage of carriers and southern Cyprus lower still.

I'm the first to avoid drawing conclusions from "non-exhaustive data". Yet, after repeated requests, you failed to provide any evidence for your conclusion that Greek Cyriots and "Turkish Cypriots" are "brothers". I therefore pointed you in the direction of something a little more scientific than "wish"-ful thinking - the sort of myth-busting evidence that makes people think.

If you think this proves that Cyprus is "Greek" without considering any other data, genetic or otherwise,

Oh, but there is PLENTY of other data (cultural, historical, linguistic etc) - It is in fact you who chooses to ignore it all in preference for some pie-in the sky "wish" that some recently imposed 'visitors', who have brought nothing but trouble to Cyprus, are "brothers" of GCs and to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.

... southern Cyprus having less than half the carrier rates of Crete

Crete does have the highest rate and all other (present and past) Greek territories have diminishing amounts depending on the distance from Crete. Sounds pretty perfectly in line with Greek Cypriots being part of the Greek peoples and their past and present territories.

To quote the researchers on this point:

"...there are some correspondences between the relative prevalences for the 35delG mutation and historico-geographic events concerning Ancient Greek Territories and successive colonizations."

I was aware that my ideas were not conclusive facts and made that clear. The point was to unite, to have a starting point, a common history and background. If my ideas about that turn out to be wrong, fair enough. It wouldn't really change anything though. We have still both shared the island for many many generations and need to solve the problem at hand.

Excellent! You are getting there ... but we don't need to make out we ever "shared" the island (you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us) or that our "common history" was anything other than a millstone around GCs' necks.

But, I agree that the TCs have a place in a fully-free and Democratic Cyprus where they can take their place, like every other RoC-respecting citizen from wherever they (legally) arrive. They don't have to be my "brothers" for me to get along with them ...

You said this, "(you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us). Which Cypriot did that? Whoever taxed you, whether the Porte or the Archbishops, they taxed ALL & SUNDRY, whether they were moslem or non-moslem. (or TC or GC if you like). With all these studies going on, what percentage of TCs do you claim to be of 100% TURKISH exctraction; do you have any idea?

Louroujatis are off the hook i suppose

Not only that, but at least one EOKA member, also related to Yfred knows that he is Turkish Cypriot descent.

[quattro]

I read through the study you pointed me at and I thought about pointing out that the size of the sample of TCs taken in the study represented the smallest of any region. But the authors themselves point this out.

I know they (politely) made a point of sampling 106 TCs. Yet, the sample from Crete was only 112, and the others not much more; so maybe they were just trying to be 'forgiving' since the obvious conclusion is ...... but, I've already told you.

You seem to be drawing your own conclusions from non-exhaustive data. The 35delG mutation seems to have originated in Crete (you'll have to read the authors' discussion about this and the history Crete for a fuller explanation). Mainland Greece has a lower percentage of carriers and southern Cyprus lower still.

I'm the first to avoid drawing conclusions from "non-exhaustive data". Yet, after repeated requests, you failed to provide any evidence for your conclusion that Greek Cyriots and "Turkish Cypriots" are "brothers". I therefore pointed you in the direction of something a little more scientific than "wish"-ful thinking - the sort of myth-busting evidence that makes people think.

If you think this proves that Cyprus is "Greek" without considering any other data, genetic or otherwise,

Oh, but there is PLENTY of other data (cultural, historical, linguistic etc) - It is in fact you who chooses to ignore it all in preference for some pie-in the sky "wish" that some recently imposed 'visitors', who have brought nothing but trouble to Cyprus, are "brothers" of GCs and to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.

... southern Cyprus having less than half the carrier rates of Crete

Crete does have the highest rate and all other (present and past) Greek territories have diminishing amounts depending on the distance from Crete. Sounds pretty perfectly in line with Greek Cypriots being part of the Greek peoples and their past and present territories.

To quote the researchers on this point:

"...there are some correspondences between the relative prevalences for the 35delG mutation and historico-geographic events concerning Ancient Greek Territories and successive colonizations."

I was aware that my ideas were not conclusive facts and made that clear. The point was to unite, to have a starting point, a common history and background. If my ideas about that turn out to be wrong, fair enough. It wouldn't really change anything though. We have still both shared the island for many many generations and need to solve the problem at hand.

Excellent! You are getting there ... but we don't need to make out we ever "shared" the island (you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us) or that our "common history" was anything other than a millstone around GCs' necks.

But, I agree that the TCs have a place in a fully-free and Democratic Cyprus where they can take their place, like every other RoC-respecting citizen from wherever they (legally) arrive. They don't have to be my "brothers" for me to get along with them ...

You said this, "(you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us). Which Cypriot did that? Whoever taxed you, whether the Porte or the Archbishops, they taxed ALL & SUNDRY, whether they were moslem or non-moslem. (or TC or GC if you like). With all these studies going on, what percentage of TCs do you claim to be of 100% TURKISH exctraction; do you have any idea?

Louroujatis are off the hook i suppose

Not only that, but at least one EOKA member, also related to Yfred knows that he is Turkish Cypriot descent.

Τhe one who has the village rank ..........Tc descent and Louroujati descent thats why he wants to forget .................LOL

[denizaksulu]

I read through the study you pointed me at and I thought about pointing out that the size of the sample of TCs taken in the study represented the smallest of any region. But the authors themselves point this out.

I know they (politely) made a point of sampling 106 TCs. Yet, the sample from Crete was only 112, and the others not much more; so maybe they were just trying to be 'forgiving' since the obvious conclusion is ...... but, I've already told you.

You seem to be drawing your own conclusions from non-exhaustive data. The 35delG mutation seems to have originated in Crete (you'll have to read the authors' discussion about this and the history Crete for a fuller explanation). Mainland Greece has a lower percentage of carriers and southern Cyprus lower still.

I'm the first to avoid drawing conclusions from "non-exhaustive data". Yet, after repeated requests, you failed to provide any evidence for your conclusion that Greek Cyriots and "Turkish Cypriots" are "brothers". I therefore pointed you in the direction of something a little more scientific than "wish"-ful thinking - the sort of myth-busting evidence that makes people think.

If you think this proves that Cyprus is "Greek" without considering any other data, genetic or otherwise,

Oh, but there is PLENTY of other data (cultural, historical, linguistic etc) - It is in fact you who chooses to ignore it all in preference for some pie-in the sky "wish" that some recently imposed 'visitors', who have brought nothing but trouble to Cyprus, are "brothers" of GCs and to the exclusion of the rest of humanity.

... southern Cyprus having less than half the carrier rates of Crete

Crete does have the highest rate and all other (present and past) Greek territories have diminishing amounts depending on the distance from Crete. Sounds pretty perfectly in line with Greek Cypriots being part of the Greek peoples and their past and present territories.

To quote the researchers on this point:

"...there are some correspondences between the relative prevalences for the 35delG mutation and historico-geographic events concerning Ancient Greek Territories and successive colonizations."

I was aware that my ideas were not conclusive facts and made that clear. The point was to unite, to have a starting point, a common history and background. If my ideas about that turn out to be wrong, fair enough. It wouldn't really change anything though. We have still both shared the island for many many generations and need to solve the problem at hand.

Excellent! You are getting there ... but we don't need to make out we ever "shared" the island (you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us) or that our "common history" was anything other than a millstone around GCs' necks.

But, I agree that the TCs have a place in a fully-free and Democratic Cyprus where they can take their place, like every other RoC-respecting citizen from wherever they (legally) arrive. They don't have to be my "brothers" for me to get along with them ...

You said this, "(you viewed it as all yours and taxed and enslaved us). Which Cypriot did that? Whoever taxed you, whether the Porte or the Archbishops, they taxed ALL & SUNDRY, whether they were moslem or non-moslem. (or TC or GC if you like). With all these studies going on, what percentage of TCs do you claim to be of 100% TURKISH exctraction; do you have any idea?

Louroujatis are off the hook i suppose

Not only that, but at least one EOKA member, also related to Yfred knows that he is Turkish Cypriot descent.

Τhe one who has the village rank ..........Tc descent and Louroujati descent thats why he wants to forget .................LOL

He may well try, but the more he tries the more the memory is entrenched.

In fact I always liked my cousin Andreas.

[supporttheunderdog]

[b]ESI is closer to Greece and Cyprus! See Figure3.

Yes and so It appears are Lebannon and Albania!

[SpartanGamer]

[b]ESI is closer to Greece and Cyprus! See Figure3.

Yes and so It appears are Lebannon and Albania!

The relative genetic distance correlates with known geographical distance as well as classical Greek spreads.

As an aside; does anyone know what the incidence of beta-thalassemia is amongst newborns in the "TRNC"?

[Piratis]

[b]ESI is closer to Greece and Cyprus! See Figure3.

Yes and so It appears are Lebannon and Albania!

And Algeria and Turkey overlap. So what?

Problem with these kind of graphs is that they are averages. Every place is a bit different, and when they are grouped by country each dot in a graph represents an average of all regions in that country. If Cyprus was allowed to be part of the Greek state then there wouldn't be a separate dot for Cyprus, but Cyprus would be counted together with all other Greek regions and the Greece dot would be plotted half a millimeter to the left.

[quattro]

why you people spent so much gray matter for descendants and DNA samples :)
why not take the simple way and say WE ARE CYPRIOTS .

You can take this crap and prove anything you like. . Many of today's Greeks are descendants of previous habitats of Cyprus. Many Catholics became Orthodox and many became moslem; in turn they were all called Greeks and Turks and then GCs and TCs. There are very very few Pure Greeks or even less pure Turks.