Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Despite the forum insults and vehemence when you see the situation on the ground and compare what went on and is going on north and south of the green line, the terms racism, nationalism, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, seem to apply more to the north than the south. The "nationalisation" of property, the importation of colonists, the granting of "nationality", the exclusion of ALL GCs, the reduction of the inhabitants of Karpasia, the treatment of cultural heritage, and the list goes on, does not flatter the north.

And from my point of view it would be OK, no one is under a duty to like me or my compatriots. But when the behavior is accompanied by comments like "we are the true Europeans" (Talat), or "since the properties on both sides have come under similar institutional management" (Eroglu), comments which reveal immense cynicism and a racist patronising attitude towards everyone, then that is where I draw the line.

Christofias had the balls to say "we were wrong in the 60s", what will it take for anyone on the other side to say "we made mistakes in the 70s"? Mehmet Ali Birand, an establishment figure in Turkey, has publicly stated that Attila II was a mistake. Are these guys in the north intellectually bigger or more patriotic than Birand?

Nikitas,we both know that both sides made many mistakes...But what you fail to accept is that the GC side's mistakes had much more fundamental efffect on the outcome of the conflict...It is not enough to say 'we made mistakes in the 60s'...You must spell out the mistakes and then tell the world how you will remedy the situation...I know you are not one of the deniers of GC mistakes..And I know you are aware of what went on between 1963-74...The mother of all mistakes was the demand for Enosis,the father of all mistakes was to try to force it by hook or crook after the RoC were agreed to...Tell me what exactly could the TCs have done to change the situation in the 70s??? They were helpless bystanders before 74 and helpless bystanders after 74...They had no power to influence anything...Surely you must realise that...

[Nikitas]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it. They did not and now Eroglu comes to the talks presenting an even harder line than Turkey.

Even traditionally pro TC media like the UK Guardian have stressed the unfairness of the territorial proposal of 37 per cent for 18 per cent of the population, but Eorglu is not listening, he is faithfully following his master's voice.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece, but they sure as hell succeded in getting it with Turkey.

[denizaksulu]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it. They did not and now Eroglu comes to the talks presenting an even harder line than Turkey.

Even traditionally pro TC media like the UK Guardian have stressed the unfairness of the territorial proposal of 37 per cent for 18 per cent of the population, but Eorglu is not listening, he is faithfully following his master's voice.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece, but they sure as hell succeded in getting it with Turkey.

Sadly you are right Nikitas.

[bill cobbett]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it. They did not and now Eroglu comes to the talks presenting an even harder line than Turkey.

Even traditionally pro TC media like the UK Guardian have stressed the unfairness of the territorial proposal of 37 per cent for 18 per cent of the population, but Eorglu is not listening, he is faithfully following his master's voice.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece, but they sure as hell succeded in getting it with Turkey.

Sadly you are right Nikitas.

... and even more sadly... i agree with Deniz....

[denizaksulu]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it. They did not and now Eroglu comes to the talks presenting an even harder line than Turkey.

Even traditionally pro TC media like the UK Guardian have stressed the unfairness of the territorial proposal of 37 per cent for 18 per cent of the population, but Eorglu is not listening, he is faithfully following his master's voice.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece, but they sure as hell succeded in getting it with Turkey.

Sadly you are right Nikitas.

... and even more sadly... i agree with Deniz....

You should always agree with me BillC

[kurupetos]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it. They did not and now Eroglu comes to the talks presenting an even harder line than Turkey.

Even traditionally pro TC media like the UK Guardian have stressed the unfairness of the territorial proposal of 37 per cent for 18 per cent of the population, but Eorglu is not listening, he is faithfully following his master's voice.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece, but they sure as hell succeded in getting it with Turkey.

Sadly you are right Nikitas.

... and even more sadly... i agree with Deniz....

Then you also agree with YFred.

[quattro]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it. They did not and now Eroglu comes to the talks presenting an even harder line than Turkey.

Even traditionally pro TC media like the UK Guardian have stressed the unfairness of the territorial proposal of 37 per cent for 18 per cent of the population, but Eorglu is not listening, he is faithfully following his master's voice.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece, but they sure as hell succeded in getting it with Turkey.

Sadly you are right Nikitas.

... and even more sadly... i agree with Deniz....

Then you also agree with YFred.

It must be a chemical reaction because i agree too

[DTA]

To reiterate what Christofias said on more than one occasion, both in official as well as unofficial forums (fora), and at the risk of sounding like his PR man, the GC side was guilty of violence against the TCs, it failed to treat them fairly, it practiced racism and lots more.

I did not know this and in fairness it should have been reciprocated. Can you point me to these links?

The TCs might have been pawns before 1974, after August 1974 they were "liberated" and they participatted in the high level talks where they agreed to a BBF. They could have insisted that from that point on that no action should be taken in the north that would jeopardise any BBF outcome, ie no "nationalisations", no forcible expulsion of the GCs of Karpasia. If these were a Turkish policy the TCs could and should have distanced themselves visibly from it

There is a lot of fairness to what you write here, but some could argue that after 11 long years of what we had to go through it would have been difficult to do so, but to me this is not a valid arguement as to do the right thing is sometimes difficult but that does not mean it should not be done.

As for Enosis being the nemesis of the TCs, well they managed, thanks to the resistance and sacrifice of the GCs, to avoid it with Greece

Im confused about this? it was the Gcs that resisted enosis with Greece? and not the TCs? (I know that some Gcs resisted and were opposed with enosis, but we are constantly told that the vast vast vast majority wanted it

[BirKibrisli]

Nikitas is obviously much more objective than some others here,but he too fails to realise the TC situation after 11 years of being left out in the cold,shut on,made to feel like endangered species...For them the arrival of the Turkish Army was akin to being reborn,given life and liberty again after being subjected to mock executions...They were so grateful to their 'saviours' that in their euphoria they would've let Turkey do almost anything Turkey wanted to do at the time...However hard they try our GC cousins cannnot imagine the misery and dire straights the TCs were subjected to...And I don't blame them because it was totally camouflaged by the RoC state...But the cows had to come home sometime,and when they did the consequences were not good,for either side really...

[Paphitis]

Despite the forum insults and vehemence when you see the situation on the ground and compare what went on and is going on north and south of the green line, the terms racism, nationalism, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, seem to apply more to the north than the south. The "nationalisation" of property, the importation of colonists, the granting of "nationality", the exclusion of ALL GCs, the reduction of the inhabitants of Karpasia, the treatment of cultural heritage, and the list goes on, does not flatter the north.

And from my point of view it would be OK, no one is under a duty to like me or my compatriots. But when the behavior is accompanied by comments like "we are the true Europeans" (Talat), or "since the properties on both sides have come under similar institutional management" (Eroglu), comments which reveal immense cynicism and a racist patronising attitude towards everyone, then that is where I draw the line.

Christofias had the balls to say "we were wrong in the 60s", what will it take for anyone on the other side to say "we made mistakes in the 70s"? Mehmet Ali Birand, an establishment figure in Turkey, has publicly stated that Attila II was a mistake. Are these guys in the north intellectually bigger or more patriotic than Birand?

Nice post Nikitas!

Simple, obvious and factual!