Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Time to remind you of that nice Turkish saying...It urur kervan yurur...

Somewhat literal translation : The dogs bark but the caravan moves on...

[antifon]

Time to remind you of that nice Turkish saying...It urur kervan yurur...

Somewhat literal translation : The dogs bark but the caravan moves on...

Indeed the caravan does. And the dogs know full well where it is headed. They've been there! If only the gypsies could understand the dogs' warnings!
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[mem101]

Antifon, I admire your tenacity in your postings, bravo sou re, but much of it is wasted on deaf ears.

@mem

The point Anti is making about the Kurds, and I am sure you know this, is the hypocricy of turkey and the TCs demanding a seperate state and as a very small number, compared to the millions of Kurds denied theirs. Simples really. Whats good for the goose must also be good for the gander. But you lot just rubbish Antifon with,'you don't know anything about turkish-kurdish realtions'. I think he knows more than you give him credit for.

He is trying to expose the two-faced, double standards of the Turkish mentality of whats mine is mine and whats yours is also mine. Hope that clarifies it for your scientific brain. So what area of science you in then????

Good luck Anitfon, you are not alone file, gamise tous.

B25, I've already said that I see that Turkey has double standards re Kurds in Turkey and TCs in Cyprus. It's the dressing he puts on things which I have a problem with. There is no dialogue, only monologue; what's more the monologue is completely biased and one-sided. His position on Cyprus and the Cyprus problem can be summed up as follows.

1. GCs are brilliant, amazing, 100% innocent and justified in all they say and do.
2. GCs are the only real Cypriots.
3. TCs are stupid, immature, 100% guilty and wrong in everything they say and do.
4. TCs are not real Cypriots, they are Turks.
5. There should be no dialogue between TCs and GCs. TCs should simply join the ROC admitting that everything was their fault.
6. There exists no individuality. There is only the GC community and the TC community. The GC community is completely united in their views and will. The TC community is not.

Do you fail to see the problem with this line of thinking?

[antifon]

Antifon, I admire your tenacity in your postings, bravo sou re, but much of it is wasted on deaf ears.

@mem

The point Anti is making about the Kurds, and I am sure you know this, is the hypocricy of turkey and the TCs demanding a seperate state and as a very small number, compared to the millions of Kurds denied theirs. Simples really. Whats good for the goose must also be good for the gander. But you lot just rubbish Antifon with,'you don't know anything about turkish-kurdish realtions'. I think he knows more than you give him credit for.

He is trying to expose the two-faced, double standards of the Turkish mentality of whats mine is mine and whats yours is also mine. Hope that clarifies it for your scientific brain. So what area of science you in then????

Good luck Anitfon, you are not alone file, gamise tous.

B25, I've already said that I see that Turkey has double standards re Kurds in Turkey and TCs in Cyprus. It's the dressing he puts on things which I have a problem with. There is no dialogue, only monologue; what's more the monologue is completely biased and one-sided. His position on Cyprus and the Cyprus problem can be summed up as follows.

1. GCs are brilliant, amazing, 100% innocent and justified in all they say and do.
2. GCs are the only real Cypriots.
3. TCs are stupid, immature, 100% guilty and wrong in everything they say and do.
4. TCs are not real Cypriots, they are Turks.
5. There should be no dialogue between TCs and GCs. TCs should simply join the ROC admitting that everything was their fault.
6. There exists no individuality. There is only the GC community and the TC community. The GC community is completely united in their views and will. The TC community is not.

Do you fail to see the problem with this line of thinking?

I for one do see the problems with that 6-bullet line of thinking. Whose is it?
.

[mem101]

Can you ever post without implied or direct military threats, or the use of military jargon? I wonder why that is.

We are bright enough to know we cannot defeat you militarily. We are also bright enough to appreciate that your military advantage is more of a liability in EU Cyprus, growing with every passing day.

Let me remind you the words of your own Turkish Foreign Ministry [I trust you permit me calling him yours as I do agree the annexation is imminent; I personally look forward to it with great anticipation] Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu in a meeting with the State Department's Undersecretary William Burns on February 18, 2010:

“membership makes them [Cyprus Republic] invulnerable”

Indeed, for anyone who understands International Relations 101 material!


But what's even more incomprehensible to you is that we would not wish to fight you even if we were superior militarily.

We have a task at hand. To regain what is ours, by history and by law. And to give back what is not. More importantly to set up a system that will allow all Cypriots to move on on a fair and European basis.

We will use legal, financial and political means to achieve our goal, backed by our accumulated wisdom in negotiations and understanding where you come from and how you think. Also, equipped with knowledge about the home ground of our enemy, Turkey, and the double standards she uses to promote her "strategic interests" in Cyprus and her Turkish, narrowly speaking, interests at home.

All the above, along with support of our allies in the EU and the region, and let me add the some old-fashioned common sense, should be enough to:

- deny Turkey the right to assume the moral high ground
- get the application of UN resolutions in Cyprus the soonest possible
- build trust with those tCypriots willing to build alongside us
- undo the damage of 1974 in a gradual and sensitive manner
- define the structure of the RoC v2.0 [a 1963 adjusted for the EU reality]
- focus our attention on challenges any normal society faces
.

This is the best post you've written so far. Particularly the part about building trust with TCs. Do you not think this will be a lot easier to achieve with a much better final result, if we work on this aspect rather than being hostile and aggressive in our approaches?

[antifon]

Can you ever post without implied or direct military threats, or the use of military jargon? I wonder why that is.

We are bright enough to know we cannot defeat you militarily. We are also bright enough to appreciate that your military advantage is more of a liability in EU Cyprus, growing with every passing day.

Let me remind you the words of your own Turkish Foreign Ministry [I trust you permit me calling him yours as I do agree the annexation is imminent; I personally look forward to it with great anticipation] Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu in a meeting with the State Department's Undersecretary William Burns on February 18, 2010:

“membership makes them [Cyprus Republic] invulnerable”

Indeed, for anyone who understands International Relations 101 material!


But what's even more incomprehensible to you is that we would not wish to fight you even if we were superior militarily.

We have a task at hand. To regain what is ours, by history and by law. And to give back what is not. More importantly to set up a system that will allow all Cypriots to move on on a fair and European basis.

We will use legal, financial and political means to achieve our goal, backed by our accumulated wisdom in negotiations and understanding where you come from and how you think. Also, equipped with knowledge about the home ground of our enemy, Turkey, and the double standards she uses to promote her "strategic interests" in Cyprus and her Turkish, narrowly speaking, interests at home.

All the above, along with support of our allies in the EU and the region, and let me add the some old-fashioned common sense, should be enough to:

- deny Turkey the right to assume the moral high ground
- get the application of UN resolutions in Cyprus the soonest possible
- build trust with those tCypriots willing to build alongside us
- undo the damage of 1974 in a gradual and sensitive manner
- define the structure of the RoC v2.0 [a 1963 adjusted for the EU reality]
- focus our attention on challenges any normal society faces
.

This is the best post you've written so far. Particularly the part about building trust with TCs. Do you not think this will be a lot easier to achieve with a much better final result, if we work on this aspect rather than being hostile and aggressive in our approaches?

Thank you for going out on a limb. I am afraid I will be disappointing you.

I know Cyprus extremely well. I spent time to understand Turkey. In my younger days I also met many tCypriots at various bi-communal events. My "wisdom" is the culminating synthesis of all these experiences and knowledge and I am more stubborn than any Karpaz donkey has ever been in knowing that I am right for the way forward. As such, I consider certain things not part of a CF negotiation.

I have conditions for engaging because I value my time & winning friends, either g's or t's, is not truly, an objective of mine, rather a welcome byproduct if it happens. Discussing for the sake of discussion is pointless, certainly the case at the UN, and we should not make it the case here. Best stick with the one liners, often successful, which, for me take the pressure off the day and the numerous business e-mails and telephone calls I make on a daily basis.


These are my conditions:

First, the only reason we even speak of a BBF is because of an unwarranted war that brought division. It is not acceptable as a basis. I am arrogant enough to suggest that on this point I represent better the will of gCypriots than our politicians who are justifiably bound by realities. The very idea that we have to agree a proposed solution separately is disgusting.

Second, 1963 was a set of forward looking ideas which would safeguard the interests of the tCypriot Community, while ensuring that the smooth functioning and development of the country would neither be prejudiced or thwarted. We must agree to revisit these ideas, adopt their spirit, and bring them up to EU-date. I take it for granted that we agree the 1960 "rights" for the tCypriots were ludicrous and must be severely trimmed. We are not equal at the community level, other than at the individual level, though I recognize that for a limited number of well defined matters the question of veto must exist.

These are my conditions for moderating my verbal, often uncontrolled, aggressiveness, and even then my arrogant style will pop up when least expected. Engaging knowing ex ante that you consider 1960 EQUALITY & 1974 DIVISION enshrined & the big-bang of your negotiating position is all I need to know to deny your kind offer/suggestion to proceed in non aggressive ways. Let me at least have some fun!

Else I really have nothing to say to you & it is not personal. I will respond to your posts but my audience won't be you & my objective will be nothing more but to make a dull or stressful day slightly better, while at the same time reminding fellow tCypriots how we feel. The regular gCypriot Joe.

I have no desire in making you feel better, or trust me more. I have many who do & see no reason why I should try harder with you. This moaning of yours just has to stop. It has been 50 years already! If you want to complain I can find out and suggest psychologists who can help you overcome events which transpired in the early 60s, when as we are recently finding out more and more the Turkeyish/tCypriot role was more conniving and duplicitous than the gCypriots' ever was.

Our mission should be to move forward as Cypriots, and rid ourselves of Turkey to the same extend as we have rid ourselves of Greece. Even better to fire all the guarantors and sue them for a job horribly done. In fact, I would personally like to see no Greek or Turkish flag at any public institution. Individuals can wave them to death.

However, since I doubt any tCypriot can yet see eye to eye with me on the above I shall press on this lonely path until the tsunami hits.
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[DTA]

again what tsunami? you are becoming tiresome

[antifon]

again what tsunami? you are becoming tiresome

A set of successive political developments, international, Turkish and Cypriot, with dire repercussions for the comfort and sustainability of your "status quo".
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[Viewpoint]

anti you are a moron.

[DTA]

again what tsunami? you are becoming tiresome

A set of successive political developments, international, Turkish and Cypriot, with dire repercussions for the comfort and sustainability of your "status quo".
.

Like what? what are your reasons for your beliefs or sources of information?