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Just who the bloody hell do we think we are?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby antifon » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:43 pm

DTA wrote:
kurupetos wrote:
DTA wrote:So you will not force us? Or kill us, good for you so how do expect to persuade us?


Persuade you!?

Image


well if we are not go to war and you will not force us, what are you and your friend antifon suggesting?





Your cooperation is not required for what we have in mind. You, original tCypriots, will be offered the chance to live amongst us as EU citizens.

Our ways are peaceful and beyond the scope of prevailing Turkish thinking's possibilities.

We are coming back Keryneia!
We are coming back Lapithos!
We are coming back Morphou!
We are coming back Karpasia!
We are coming back Apostolos Andreas!
We are coming back Ammochostos!

It's a promise we gave long ago as a people!
.
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Postby DTA » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:44 pm

antifon wrote:
DTA wrote:
kurupetos wrote:
DTA wrote:So you will not force us? Or kill us, good for you so how do expect to persuade us?


Persuade you!?

Image


well if we are not go to war and you will not force us, what are you and your friend antifon suggesting?





Your cooperation is not required for what we have in mind. You, original tCypriots, will be offered the chance to live amongst us as EU citizens.

Our ways are peaceful and beyond the scope of prevailing Turkish thinking's possibilities.

We are coming back Keryneia!
We are coming back Lapithos!
We are coming back Morphou!
We are coming back Karpasia!
We are coming back Apostolos Andreas!
We are coming back Ammochostos!

It's a promise we gave long ago as a people!
.


And what is it that you have in mind please enlighten us?
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Postby antifon » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:53 pm

DTA wrote:
antifon wrote:
DTA wrote:
kurupetos wrote:
DTA wrote:So you will not force us? Or kill us, good for you so how do expect to persuade us?


Persuade you!?

Image


well if we are not go to war and you will not force us, what are you and your friend antifon suggesting?





Your cooperation is not required for what we have in mind. You, original tCypriots, will be offered the chance to live amongst us as EU citizens.

Our ways are peaceful and beyond the scope of prevailing Turkish thinking's possibilities.

We are coming back Keryneia!
We are coming back Lapithos!
We are coming back Morphou!
We are coming back Karpasia!
We are coming back Apostolos Andreas!
We are coming back Ammochostos!

It's a promise we gave long ago as a people!
.


And what is it that you have in mind please enlighten us?




I already said. A 1963 adjusted for EU reality. No division. Gradual implementation. Slow undoing of all injustices. Respect of human rights.

The how I'm afraid is on a need to know basis. And you don't have such need, although I understand the curiosity.
.
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Postby NEVERSAYNEVER » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:15 pm

Antifon , you are most certainly an interesting poster , you make a lot of sense , however you will I'm sure agree that the RoC has a lot of work to do in order to convince the T/Cs that they will not be treated as they once were , ie second class citizens with the Greek flag shoved at their faces.
What saddens me most is the treatment that our big boys are dishing out to foreign property investors. They , the investors , DO NOT TRUST the ROC , should the T/Cs do so !
Thousands of Brits paid good money for properties in Cyprus , properties that they now know they do not legally own in the absence of the deeds. The RoC must address this very serious problem that has damaged the good name of Cyprus , the culprits , or the con men , must be made accountable , brushing this blatant corruption under the carpet does not instill much confidence in anyone.
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Postby DTA » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:12 pm

Antifon if you don't tell us how you are just speaking out of your backside, its like someone coming on here and saying that they know that turkey has been given the green light to take 20% more of Cyprus as a buffer zone and the right to annex the north without any reprocusions. And you Gcs should accept this because there is a great wind heading your way if you don't. In other words it just bullshit.

So in other, other words either put up or shut up.
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Postby mem101 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:00 pm

antifon wrote:
mem101 wrote:Actually, I did read the article albeit a few days ago. Actually, it being your own phrase supports my argument that you are the illogical and irrational one here. You are so blinded by hate and fascism you fail to see that you are the pot calling the kettle black.

I am Cypriot by descent, British by birth, scientist by nature and academic background. Which part of that reads "Turkish propogandist?"




If you read it then you have a very short memory span. I can only wonder which institution you represent.

As far as being a scientist, well, that is not such a great achievement nowadays, is it? We all know of scientists who reason things kinda like you do and then learn how to get planes off the ground without minding to learn the landing procedures.

Academic? Now that's something to be admired. If you are indeed an academic then, and putting aside for a moment that you have addressed none of my points, why didn't you bother to read the EU's report I sent you & then follow your scientific method to deduce whether the fascism that exists in Turkey is of a light nature or not.

Or simply read the Turkish press on any given day. The range of topics covered, despite the serious press control, is enough to convince anyone, not simply academics, that the country that assumes the moral high ground in Cyprus, an insult really, is permeated by fascistic ideology.

Or why don't you venture to make a comparative analysis between the tCypriot and Kurdish misfortunes. Start by academically, as well as personally, answering the following:

DO YOU SUPPORT the Kurds of Turkey, in their struggle to secure an identical solution in Turkey to the one you wish to see in Cyprus [1960/1963[?]/77-79/2004]? DO THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO A REFERENDUM? DO THEY HAVE A RIGHT FOR THEIR LANGUAGE TO BE AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF TURKEY? Please provide brief answers to these simple questions, after you have scientifically and academically analyzed the situation.

I am curious how this one will be avoided.


And when you are all done, please answer me this:
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO COME TO CYPRUS AND CAUSE SUCH MISERY?

Best stay in London & prepare to host more. The fascism we disagree on will be pushing more over to your island. A blessing perhaps for the island with the millennia of Hellenic history that has suffered in the last 60 years because of moronic leaders of a small minority which for centuries lived well, far better than the tens of millions in Turkey, alongside their Cypriot hosts, but instead of gratitude, they open the door to FASCISM into our home. And for 40 years they live comfortably in out homes without any shame, calling Keryneia, Lapithos, Karpasia, Morphou their own because a war they started was won by them. Some achievement! How fascistic is that? How Turkish is that? This should suffice as the evidence you are looking for Mr. Acedemic/Scientist.

But why don't you read the article again? Perhaps you will find more data there.

As far as not being Turkish, well, perhaps sometime in the 17th century you weren't. But given that language and religion are the main media of culture, and the fascism that has existed in Turkey the last 90 years, you are without even realizing it more Turks that you think. And this can't be good.

Is it time for you to pray?
.


A lot has been said since I last came on but I feel obliged to reply to this post.

Your comments about science show more of your ignorance but I won't debate it with you here because it's off topic. I never said I was an academic, I said my academic background was in science. There is a very big difference. The only reason I mentioned a little something about my background was to show that your ravings about my being a "Turkish propogandist" were untrue and unfounded.

Why didn't I read and analyse the EU's report? Because it is very long and believe it or not, I do actually have a life and responsibilities and don't have time to do everything you ask. I've said before that I don't have all the answers and that I am no politician. I merely challenged your methods.

Your questions to me about the Kurds don't seem relevent. Do I think Kurdish should be an official language of Turkey...? Maybe. A better question would be do I think Kurds should have the right to teach their language in schools. And my answer to that would be yes. But I still don't see what relevence that has. On making a comparative analysis between the Turkish Cypriot and Kurdish misfortunes - I am not a historian! And besides showing yet another nation's/empire's double standards I don't see what point can be proven, or how the conclusions can bring us to finding a solution to our problems in Cyprus.

Like I said previously, I lived in Turkey for two years. I know that many Turkish people are very nationalistic. But you are just the same. And you yell and name call and act as though a few of your quotes make indisputable facts. I merely pointing this out to discredit your rantings.

A lot of your other comments are the usual repetitive, bigoted, hate-inspiring drivel. Turkey is a foreign country to me - repeat; I am not Turkish, I am Cypriot. Cyprus is my ancestral home - I never came to Cyprus and caused misery. Cyprus was conquered by many empires throughout the centuries, even millenia. The Ottoman and British empires happened to be the last before, during and after the rise of nationalism.

I am aware that there's a lot more to say and address but frankly, I am bored of talking to someone who shows a tunnel-visioned view of Cyprus' history (this is giving you too much credit!), and serves only to maintain the status quo by providing fuel for the fire for those who would keep the Cypriot people divided with his racist and bigoted remarks.
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Postby antifon » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:10 pm

NEVERSAYNEVER wrote:Antifon , you are most certainly an interesting poster , you make a lot of sense , however you will I'm sure agree that the RoC has a lot of work to do in order to convince the T/Cs that they will not be treated as they once were , ie second class citizens with the Greek flag shoved at their faces.
What saddens me most is the treatment that our big boys are dishing out to foreign property investors. They , the investors , DO NOT TRUST the ROC , should the T/Cs do so !
Thousands of Brits paid good money for properties in Cyprus , properties that they now know they do not legally own in the absence of the deeds. The RoC must address this very serious problem that has damaged the good name of Cyprus , the culprits , or the con men , must be made accountable , brushing this blatant corruption under the carpet does not instill much confidence in anyone.




Which other, allow me to say western, country in the world do you know whose citizens wake up and until they go to sleep wonder when they will have peace of mind because of an illegal invasion/occupation/colonization that goes unpunished 37 years on? So much "wasted" energy by a bright and hardworking people [feel free to mock me for both these adjectives], energy which would otherwise be directed to solve normal problems that any society faces?

Whether we are tCypriots, or British or European or any one with a genuine and non-selfish interest in Cyprus, we must admit that the gCypriots, DESPITE THE CALAMITY, have managed to pull themselves out of the pit the TSK/Ergenekon put them and to make a success story. You may admire the Japanese, I know I do, in how the handle their CATASTROPHY, but let me tell you. What we Cypriots have achieved is no less of a success story, one that I will proudly be telling my grandchildren. But the final David Goliath battle has not been "fought" yet. So the story gets even better. Or so its should.

I do not want to bore you much more. My answer to you is that we must asap end this unhealthy situation. Furthermore, we must finally realize that the will of the tCypriots is irrelevant, hostage to propaganda, fear, outright lies, and to put it nicely, a thinking that is based on threats and "we dare you" mentality. Dare me for what? To want to go home to my town? To my business? To my home? What sort of logic is that? Certainly not European. Some may have forgotten that the towns they live belong to others, and they shameless display their pride on stolen mountains, but what they do not understand is that Cyprus has a claim to being European for the culture that these CYPRIOT "IDIOTS" managed to preserve through time. And our time goes way back into the past. It is something so strong and powerful that it can't ever be easily explained. I guess you can call it pride in one's heritage. And we will NEVER AGAIN place our future in the hands of an immature minority, whose misery to a very large extend is their own fault, who have been living under dictatorship for the last 40 years. A minority which, with such embarrassing honesty, we recently found out would have been invented had it not existed.

We cannot ever reason with tCypriots because their thinking seeks to preserve the ILL-THINKING of 1960 & the DIVISION of 1974. This is unacceptable.

If you are not a Cypriot, then please do take it from me: NEITHER WILL BE ACCEPTED. For the sake of all. And let me add: THE SOLUTION TO BE PROPOSED/OFFERED BY gCypriots will be fair. A lot fairer than what others dictated to us back in 1960 without any concern for the rights of a people who can TRACE THEIR UNINTERRUPTED PRESENCE on this land since the times of Praxandros and Kideas founded Keryneia.

Whether tCypriots will agree or not is IMMATERIAL. They don't/won't really have a choice. I know enough tCypriots, certainly not enough to suggest that I have carried out a scientific poll, but enough of them to understand the tCypriot heart. And I tell you with CONVICTION that a 1963 basis, adjusted for the EU reality, with common sense for the gradual and sensitive undoing of the results of the 1974 HEINOUS UNWARRANTED CRIME, WILL BE ACCEPTED BY AT LEAST 60% of the remaining tCYPRIOTS, if properly explained and presented to them, and by 80% of all tCypriots who live abroad. The latter will be a better indicator as the quality of the solution. The other 50% can take some time off to think about it, knowing that Cyprus will be here to embrace them.

Last, what will be offered to 65.000 or 90.000 or 120.000 tCypriots will be infinitely better than what 20 million of Kurds enjoy in Turkey. If we manage to make it a good solution here, then we will have helped Turks and Kurds make peace at home too. If tCypriots realize this soon enough they may be in a position to influence the quality of the solution. I know, however, that even they remain obstinate and immature to the end, the final solution offered will be a SOLID AND FAIR solution which I will again be proudly telling my grandchildren about how we went from division and lack of trust to the great EU state we will be.

WE HAVE LONG BEEN READY & WE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO WAIT FOR tCYPRIOTS TO OWN UP TO THEIR PAST, FREE OF THE PROPAGANDA OF THE NATION WHICH WOULD HAVE INVENTED THEM HAD THEY NOT EXISTED.
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Postby mem101 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:22 pm

antifon wrote:Which other, allow me to say western, country in the world do you know whose citizens wake up and until they go to sleep wonder when they will have peace of mind because of an illegal invasion/occupation/colonization that goes unpunished 37 years on? So much "wasted" energy by a bright and hardworking people [feel free to mock me for both these adjectives], energy which would otherwise be directed to solve normal problems that any society faces?

Whether we are tCypriots, or British or European or any one with a genuine and non-selfish interest in Cyprus, we must admit that the gCypriots, DESPITE THE CALAMITY, have managed to pull themselves out of the pit the TSK/Ergenekon put them and to make a success story. You may admire the Japanese, I know I do, in how the handle their CATASTROPHY, but let me tell you. What we Cypriots have achieved is no less of a success story, one that I will proudly be telling my grandchildren. But the final David Goliath battle has not been "fought" yet. So the story gets even better. Or so its should.

I do not want to bore you much more. My answer to you is that we must asap end this unhealthy situation. Furthermore, we must finally realize that the will of the tCypriots is irrelevant, hostage to propaganda, fear, outright lies, and to put it nicely, a thinking that is based on threats and "we dare you" mentality. Dare me for what? To want to go home to my town? To my business? To my home? What sort of logic is that? Certainly not European. Some may have forgotten that the towns they live belong to others, and they shameless display their pride on stolen mountains, but what they do not understand is that Cyprus has a claim to being European for the culture that these CYPRIOT "IDIOTS" managed to preserve through time. And our time goes way back into the past. It is something so strong and powerful that it can't ever be easily explained. I guess you can call it pride in one's heritage. And we will NEVER AGAIN place our future in the hands of an immature minority, whose misery to a very large extend is their own fault, who have been living under dictatorship for the last 40 years. A minority which, with such embarrassing honesty, we recently found out would have been invented had it not existed.

We cannot ever reason with tCypriots because their thinking seeks to preserve the ILL-THINKING of 1960 & the DIVISION of 1974. This is unacceptable.

If you are not a Cypriot, then please do take it from me: NEITHER WILL BE ACCEPTED. For the sake of all. And let me add: THE SOLUTION TO BE PROPOSED/OFFERED BY gCypriots will be fair. A lot fairer than what others dictated to us back in 1960 without any concern for the rights of a people who can TRACE THEIR UNINTERRUPTED PRESENCE on this land since the times of Praxandros and Kideas founded Keryneia.

Whether tCypriots will agree or not is IMMATERIAL. They don't/won't really have a choice. I know enough tCypriots, certainly not enough to suggest that I have carried out a scientific poll, but enough of them to understand the tCypriot heart. And I tell you with CONVICTION that a 1963 basis, adjusted for the EU reality, with common sense for the gradual and sensitive undoing of the results of the 1974 HEINOUS UNWARRANTED CRIME, WILL BE ACCEPTED BY AT LEAST 60% of the remaining tCYPRIOTS, if properly explained and presented to them, and by 80% of all tCypriots who live abroad. The latter will be a better indicator as the quality of the solution. The other 50% can take some time off to think about it, knowing that Cyprus will be here to embrace them.

Last, what will be offered to 65.000 or 90.000 or 120.000 tCypriots will be infinitely better than what 20 million of Kurds enjoy in Turkey. If we manage to make it a good solution here, then we will have helped Turks and Kurds make peace at home too. If tCypriots realize this soon enough they may be in a position to influence the quality of the solution. I know, however, that even they remain obstinate and immature to the end, the final solution offered will be a SOLID AND FAIR solution which I will again be proudly telling my grandchildren about how we went from division and lack of trust to the great EU state we will be.

WE HAVE LONG BEEN READY & WE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO WAIT FOR tCYPRIOTS TO OWN UP TO THEIR PAST, FREE OF THE PROPAGANDA OF THE NATION WHICH WOULD HAVE INVENTED THEM HAD THEY NOT EXISTED.
.


Such inspiring nationalist propoganda... :roll:
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Postby B25 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:32 pm

Antifon, I admire your tenacity in your postings, bravo sou re, but much of it is wasted on deaf ears.

@mem

The point Anti is making about the Kurds, and I am sure you know this, is the hypocricy of turkey and the TCs demanding a seperate state and as a very small number, compared to the millions of Kurds denied theirs. Simples really. Whats good for the goose must also be good for the gander. But you lot just rubbish Antifon with,'you don't know anything about turkish-kurdish realtions'. I think he knows more than you give him credit for.

He is trying to expose the two-faced, double standards of the Turkish mentality of whats mine is mine and whats yours is also mine. Hope that clarifies it for your scientific brain. So what area of science you in then????

Good luck Anitfon, you are not alone file, gamise tous. :)
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Postby antifon » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:06 pm

DTA wrote:Antifon if you don't tell us how you are just speaking out of your backside, its like someone coming on here and saying that they know that turkey has been given the green light to take 20% more of Cyprus as a buffer zone and the right to annex the north without any reprocusions. And you Gcs should accept this because there is a great wind heading your way if you don't. In other words it just bullshit.

So in other, other words either put up or shut up.




Can you ever post without implied or direct military threats, or the use of military jargon? I wonder why that is.

We are bright enough to know we cannot defeat you militarily. We are also bright enough to appreciate that your military advantage is more of a liability in EU Cyprus, growing with every passing day.

Let me remind you the words of your own Turkish Foreign Ministry [I trust you permit me calling him yours as I do agree the annexation is imminent; I personally look forward to it with great anticipation] Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu in a meeting with the State Department's Undersecretary William Burns on February 18, 2010:

“membership makes them [Cyprus Republic] invulnerable”

Indeed, for anyone who understands International Relations 101 material!


But what's even more incomprehensible to you is that we would not wish to fight you even if we were superior militarily.

We have a task at hand. To regain what is ours, by history and by law. And to give back what is not. More importantly to set up a system that will allow all Cypriots to move on on a fair and European basis.

We will use legal, financial and political means to achieve our goal, backed by our accumulated wisdom in negotiations and understanding where you come from and how you think. Also, equipped with knowledge about the home ground of our enemy, Turkey, and the double standards she uses to promote her "strategic interests" in Cyprus and her Turkish, narrowly speaking, interests at home.

All the above, along with support of our allies in the EU and the region, and let me add the some old-fashioned common sense, should be enough to:

- deny Turkey the right to assume the moral high ground
- get the application of UN resolutions in Cyprus the soonest possible
- build trust with those tCypriots willing to build alongside us
- undo the damage of 1974 in a gradual and sensitive manner
- define the structure of the RoC v2.0 [a 1963 adjusted for the EU reality]
- focus our attention on challenges any normal society faces
.
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