Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mapko]

B25...Thanks. I wondered about my sanity! How could a Greek Cypriot ever come out with the things Bananiot was coming out wiht a sleep at night, let alone look his own family in the face, is beyond me. I mistakenly asked an old relative, when I was young, about the house with the Turk police officers family found in it and it was frowned upon. He sat there stony-faced as if I'd just said the worst thing in the world, so I couldn't believe a Greek Cypriot would post anything like that. Nobody would ever betray their own. As I posted elsewhere, what about the priests who were circumcised? What about the old priests, too frail to move, who were burned in their churches? What about the priests who were raped? What about the soldiers - prisoners of war - who were mudered after surrendering? What about the use of Napalm on villagers who had no defence?

[antifon]

Having a powerful military that can take over in an emergency is seen as a positive by many, even most, and there are certain taboos which stunt its political development.

What “emergency” could there possibly be besides a coup by the military itself?

Indeed! Let's just say that there's a certain man's word which is golden...

Antifon, I find your approach alienating, offensive and unnecessarily aggressive. A lot of what you say emphasises and feeds division between Cypriots.

I'll answer your question about where I stand, however. I support a democratic, reunified Cyprus. I don't have preconditions and I don't have all the answers. I am open to more than one kind of solution. I could support a one state or two state solution. I don't support power sharing criteria based on religion, name, first language, sexual orientation or any other kind of prejudice. I reject any notion that Cyprus is anything but Cypriot.

mem101, it is meant to be aggressive. Not against you personally, but rather the unjust situation which you invited and maintain as a community. I have no sympathy for your plea as a result. I have been denied my rights for 40 years.

While you live in my home, occupy my town, profit from my misfortune, you tell me in general what you support. Frankly, I do not give a damn what you think in general. You are a hypocritical, ungrateful, minority, that should never have the kind of power that it was improperly given. Cyprus' future will be defined by the majority of AUTHENTIC CYPRIOTS, and you happen to be but a SMALL MINORITY, even smaller than you used to be. Your cultural and civic rights will be respected. Your moaning will not be tolerated anymore, allowed to stand in the way of progress.

It is time for decisions. If you, as tCypriot community, have not made up your minds yet, probably 'cause you find the lives you have been living at my expense too cozy, then too bad. Decisions have to be made, and formalizing the division is NOT an option.

Get out of my home mem101. And get the Brit vultures and TSK/Ergenekon scum out too. Lapithos, Keryneia, Morphou will be majority gCypriot again in less than 10 years.

There was a time I was not as aggressive. Read what I was saying then:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/01/to- ... heart.html

But tCypriot HYPOCRISY is out of this world! As pathetic is your ability to act collectively.

YOU ARE A SMALL MINORITY. IF YOU CAN'T LIVE WITH THIS FACT, THEN GO AND LIVE IN TURKEY WHERE YOUR RIGHTS WILL BE INFINITELY BETTER.
.

Bitterness and hostility is not going to build any bridges, Antifon. Your post invites a non-academic historical argument - each side blaming the other continuously for past wrong-doings and both denying that they ever made any mistakes - and achieving nothing but more bitter feelings, hostility and division. The truth is that history is a lot more complex than you have allowed yourself to believe and no side is completely innocent (I don't like this term as it is an over-simplification, but it will serve my purpose in this instance).

I told you what I support because you asked me. If you didn't want to hear the answer, or already had a guns-glazing reply lined up for whatever I wrote, why ask in the first place? If you expected me to give you a full answer outlining every detail of what I think is the way for us to proceed from here, then you expected too much. As I said before, I am not a politician, just a citizen. I do not speak for every Turkish speaking Cypriot. And while we are on that point, you do not speak for every Greek speaking Cypriot, either.

You refer to "Authentic Cypriots" and a "small minority." Do you challenge the authenticity of my Cypriotness? You have no grounds for doing so. My ancestors have been living in Cyprus for untold generations - likely at least as far back as the Roman period or beyond. If that does not make me an authentic Cypriot then I do not know what does. I'm not in "your" home. You have no right to tell me to go and live in Turkey; I am not Turkish, I am Cypriot.

Reading your blog, I see that you think that Turkish speaking Cypriots have been subject to propoganda, but fail to see that Greek speaking Cypriots and you yourself have been subject to equally ferocious propoganda. As educated people, we need to look beyond nationalist (yes - nationalist, not fascist!) propoganda and biased arguments.

A lot of your insulting adjectives don't warrent any response. On your comment about getting "the Brit vultures and TSK/Ergenekon scum" out, I am afraid I don't personally have that kind of power... yes, yes, I know you were referring to everyone in the "small minority."

From this point the argument between us becomes purely political. You are far right wing - nationalist, occasionally fascist - in many of your views. I am very liberal. We would be arguing in any circumstances, unable to find common ground.

Whatever liberal!

Just get out of my home and town. I mean it literally. And get the trash you invited to leave. If you could muster the strength to apologize that would be nice too.

This is my answer (the principles for a solution):
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html

Do you have any?
If you say 1960 equality or 1974 division or formalization of division via 77/79, none is acceptable.

The majority Cypriots will define the future of this country, with or without you. That's the way is should have been in the 50s too. But we had an ungrateful and hypocritical minority that sided with the enemies. The rest is history and on your conscience.

I am not disputing your Cypriotness. I am disputing your right to veto the country's way forward as a small minority. Never again. Don't like it? Go to Ankara and see how minorities are treated there. I believe, as a self-proclaimed liberal, you appreciate the sort of scum you invited into our country. Just read the Turkish press on any given day. As far as British vultures, and Turks, how would you describe the behavior of "people" who prey on Cypriot misfortune? I am willing to adopt a more liberal adjective.
.

[Bananiot]

Exerpt from "Oyster with a missing pearl"

For example, one of her very first interviews for the book was with Kutlay Erk, whose father was a prison guard and disappeared in 1963 while in a hospital due to a heart attack he had suffered. In the interview Erk spoke of how he waited and searched for his father for many years and about the pain he felt. His father's grave has since been found and he was reburied in Gazimagosa (Famagusta).

"I have searched for my father for 44 years and five months. The search ends today and extinguishes the fire inside. Dad, welcome among us, sleep in peace next to your wife, who waited for you all her life," Erk said at the funeral and added that knowing what happened to the missing is vital.

"The pain felt by the family members of missing Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots is the same. All the missing persons, without politicising the event, should be found. All these things show us once again that a sustainable peace is needed on the island," Erk said.

Need I say more?

[B25]

he doesnt care about them, as long as his turkish chums get what they want. He is a disgrace to every decent GC.
He deserves all he gets.

[Get Real!]

he doesnt care about them, as long as his turkish chums get what they want. He is a disgrace to every decent GC.
He deserves all he gets.

Because some Cypriots consider themselves British! They may have an English parent and/or their parent/s were working for the British during the troubled years (1955..59) and were disgruntled at losing a good job, etc.

Everyone comes from a different background/influence…

[Bananiot]

This is the vital difference between my world and yours. Me and Kutlai share the same dream, the same vision for Cyprus and we say, along with all passionate Cypriots "enough with the nationalists"

[Bananiot]

What are you speculating about GR, my family belonged to the proletariat, no assets, no land, no money. Had to emigrate to make ends meet. Again, you are personalising things, your favourite pastime to cover your scholar abyss!

[Get Real!]

What are you speculating about GR, my family belonged to the proletariat, no assets, no land, no money. Had to emigrate to make ends meet. Again, you are personalising things, your favourite pastime to cover your scholar abyss!

I’ve never considered you a Turkophile Bananiot, but your love affair with Britain oozes from between the lines of your thoughts.

[Get Real!]

As much as she disgusts you, Turkey is the “necessary” evil for Britain to get her way!

Isn’t that right Bananiot?

[mem101]

Having a powerful military that can take over in an emergency is seen as a positive by many, even most, and there are certain taboos which stunt its political development.

What “emergency” could there possibly be besides a coup by the military itself?

Indeed! Let's just say that there's a certain man's word which is golden...

Antifon, I find your approach alienating, offensive and unnecessarily aggressive. A lot of what you say emphasises and feeds division between Cypriots.

I'll answer your question about where I stand, however. I support a democratic, reunified Cyprus. I don't have preconditions and I don't have all the answers. I am open to more than one kind of solution. I could support a one state or two state solution. I don't support power sharing criteria based on religion, name, first language, sexual orientation or any other kind of prejudice. I reject any notion that Cyprus is anything but Cypriot.

mem101, it is meant to be aggressive. Not against you personally, but rather the unjust situation which you invited and maintain as a community. I have no sympathy for your plea as a result. I have been denied my rights for 40 years.

While you live in my home, occupy my town, profit from my misfortune, you tell me in general what you support. Frankly, I do not give a damn what you think in general. You are a hypocritical, ungrateful, minority, that should never have the kind of power that it was improperly given. Cyprus' future will be defined by the majority of AUTHENTIC CYPRIOTS, and you happen to be but a SMALL MINORITY, even smaller than you used to be. Your cultural and civic rights will be respected. Your moaning will not be tolerated anymore, allowed to stand in the way of progress.

It is time for decisions. If you, as tCypriot community, have not made up your minds yet, probably 'cause you find the lives you have been living at my expense too cozy, then too bad. Decisions have to be made, and formalizing the division is NOT an option.

Get out of my home mem101. And get the Brit vultures and TSK/Ergenekon scum out too. Lapithos, Keryneia, Morphou will be majority gCypriot again in less than 10 years.

There was a time I was not as aggressive. Read what I was saying then:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/01/to- ... heart.html

But tCypriot HYPOCRISY is out of this world! As pathetic is your ability to act collectively.

YOU ARE A SMALL MINORITY. IF YOU CAN'T LIVE WITH THIS FACT, THEN GO AND LIVE IN TURKEY WHERE YOUR RIGHTS WILL BE INFINITELY BETTER.
.

Bitterness and hostility is not going to build any bridges, Antifon. Your post invites a non-academic historical argument - each side blaming the other continuously for past wrong-doings and both denying that they ever made any mistakes - and achieving nothing but more bitter feelings, hostility and division. The truth is that history is a lot more complex than you have allowed yourself to believe and no side is completely innocent (I don't like this term as it is an over-simplification, but it will serve my purpose in this instance).

I told you what I support because you asked me. If you didn't want to hear the answer, or already had a guns-glazing reply lined up for whatever I wrote, why ask in the first place? If you expected me to give you a full answer outlining every detail of what I think is the way for us to proceed from here, then you expected too much. As I said before, I am not a politician, just a citizen. I do not speak for every Turkish speaking Cypriot. And while we are on that point, you do not speak for every Greek speaking Cypriot, either.

You refer to "Authentic Cypriots" and a "small minority." Do you challenge the authenticity of my Cypriotness? You have no grounds for doing so. My ancestors have been living in Cyprus for untold generations - likely at least as far back as the Roman period or beyond. If that does not make me an authentic Cypriot then I do not know what does. I'm not in "your" home. You have no right to tell me to go and live in Turkey; I am not Turkish, I am Cypriot.

Reading your blog, I see that you think that Turkish speaking Cypriots have been subject to propoganda, but fail to see that Greek speaking Cypriots and you yourself have been subject to equally ferocious propoganda. As educated people, we need to look beyond nationalist (yes - nationalist, not fascist!) propoganda and biased arguments.

A lot of your insulting adjectives don't warrent any response. On your comment about getting "the Brit vultures and TSK/Ergenekon scum" out, I am afraid I don't personally have that kind of power... yes, yes, I know you were referring to everyone in the "small minority."

From this point the argument between us becomes purely political. You are far right wing - nationalist, occasionally fascist - in many of your views. I am very liberal. We would be arguing in any circumstances, unable to find common ground.

Whatever liberal!

Just get out of my home and town. I mean it literally. And get the trash you invited to leave. If you could muster the strength to apologize that would be nice too.

This is my answer (the principles for a solution):
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html

Do you have any?
If you say 1960 equality or 1974 division or formalization of division via 77/79, none is acceptable.

The majority Cypriots will define the future of this country, with or without you. That's the way is should have been in the 50s too. But we had an ungrateful and hypocritical minority that sided with the enemies. The rest is history and on your conscience.

I am not disputing your Cypriotness. I am disputing your right to veto the country's way forward as a small minority. Never again. Don't like it? Go to Ankara and see how minorities are treated there. I believe, as a self-proclaimed liberal, you appreciate the sort of scum you invited into our country. Just read the Turkish press on any given day. As far as British vultures, and Turks, how would you describe the behavior of "people" who prey on Cypriot misfortune? I am willing to adopt a more liberal adjective.
.

Can you say "deja vu?" You seem to be stuck in a loop, unable to register the things that I have written even as you read them and formulate an appropriate response. I am not interested in re-reading Makarios' 1963 proposals. And I am not interested in wasting my time expanding on my own position when you are incapable of constructive, progressive dialogue. I have concluded that you only wish to provoke.

One final note; you can guarantee that the "future of this country" will not be decided "without" me.