Cyprus-Forum.com

[Schnauzer]

To answer the question posed by this thread:- In my opinion, it matters little what anyone 'Thinks, plans, proposes or desires', if it does not suit Israel, it will never come to fruition.

The Zionists have got the world by the 'Short and Curlies'

[bill cobbett]

To throw a little optimism in to things..... it may well all end this year, for better (and now a little pessimism and realism)...... or worse.

[JackDoe]

Looks like this thread is turning into one of those where most people let their dreams speak instead of answering questions by taking a hard look at the reality and what's going on around the world.

At least one person, who shall remain nameless, must either be living in his own dream world or is a failed politician because he just does not give any direct answers to any of my questions.

Shame really, if the people of the two communities who are the ones that are going to live together, can not agree to anthing, how do they expect the power and fame hungry politicians to solve the unification solution?

You summed up the sad situation of this Forum pretty well,Jack...
Welcome to our little forum,btw,and hope you stick around to help put some sense and reality in certain people's lives...

Thanks for the welcome but it looks like it may have been a great mistake joining this forum. Some posters seem to be really hostile, especiaslly to those of us from the UK. One even wants me to "apologise profusely" as if it was my fault what happened in Cyprus.

ur fault has been to enter the fray ill-equipped.

So it seems.

[JackDoe]

The question wasn't about what Turkey can do but how important Turkey's geographical position is important to the EU & the USA. In that context, do you believe that Cyprus unification is so much more important that the EU will tell Turkey it's all over and she should go join her Muslim neighbors?

The question is whether Turkey cares enough about its EU accession to withdraw its forces and renounce all claim to Cyprus. There was hope amongst Turkey's Western allies that Erdogan would be the man to solve the Cyprus issue and anchor Turkey in the West. However, it appears that the EU accession process is just a game Turkey is playing. It says one thing in public to appease investors, allies and secular critics while pursuing a policy of Islamisation at home, neo-Ottomanism abroad and belligerence on the Cyprus issue.

Erdogan has shown little intention of doing what's required to join the EU by adopting EU rules and keeping to his promises. Instead he is using the Cyprus issue to stop that happening - while blaming the EU and the Greek Cypriots. But the strategy is running into deadlock. Without the prospect of EU entry, the Turkish economy will suffer and Turkey looks increasingly out of step with events in the region. While the Middle East and north Africa are yearning for democracy and freedom, Turkey is looking to Islamify and aligning itself with the most reactionary elements in the region.

It's worth reminding yourself that Turkey has an accession process, like every EU candidate country. If it was serious about joining the EU Turkey would do what is required of it. It's not the role of the EU or the Cyprus Republic to make concessions to Turkey.

What you are saying sounds to me like Erdogan used the west to his/Turkey's advantage instead of the west using Turkey. Is Erdogan really that clever?

[JackDoe]

the uk has hardly showered itself with glory in relation to cyprus. i suggest u examine carefully the nefarious role the uk has played in the division of cyprus,

Ermmm...isn't asking questions in order to learn classed as examining?

eat loads of humble pie,

What sort?

apologise profusely,

What for?

lobby ur government to offer reparations,

For what?

and then come here and cross examine cypriots about the future of the island.

Let me see if I understood you properly.

You are telling me to away, learn about the history of Cyprus, what the UK governments role was in the division of the island then come back and cross examine the Cypriots?

i sure am. because i find ur questions leading and accusatory. and now that it's been established ur from the uk, patronizing and insulting too. and i suspect others think likewise. the only way u can figure out why is by doing some homework.

as for ur questions above..

Isn't asking questions a part of ones homework? How else is one supposed to find answers?

'wot sort of humble pie?'

This was meant to be a joke or sarcasm if it better suits you.

reparations and apology? this will be clearer once u've done some basic research into establishing ur country's neglect of its legal and moral obligations to the island.

Will that make you feel better?

Ermmm....if I knew all that, what would be the point of asking more questions to get the answers I already know?

Please don't feel that you are obliged to answer any of my questions, you don't need to, really.

i'm not answering because i feel i'm obliged nor because i need to, really. but it's a hobby of mine to challenge the likes of u here. so thanks for giving me the opportunity.

Who am I to stop you from having fun and enjoying your hobby.

[Hermes]

What you are saying sounds to me like Erdogan used the west to his/Turkey's advantage instead of the west using Turkey. Is Erdogan really that clever?

Well Erdogan used the EU process to reign in the military and the secular elite at home. He certainly made the West think he was a moderate, democratic pro-Western leader. But they didn't think he'd end up cosying to Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah and break off relations with Israel. The West also thought the AKP were looking for way out of Cyprus and were serious about joining the EU. I don't think this makes Erdogan particularly "clever". He's basically a small-time religious hick out of his depth on the international stage.

Don't believe the hype about how the EU and US needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the West. Turkey has been sustained by the West until now with finance and arms while it has turned a blind eye to its excesses including the occupation of Cyprus. Do you think Turkey will be able to afford to maintain the occupation of Cyprus and fight a resurgent PKK without American military and financial support? All this will be over if Turkey chooses to become the new Iran. It will need to keep a foot in the Western camp and keep its EU accession path open - otherwise those who are already questioning Turkey's NATO membership will grow in number and Western investors, who make up the majority of foreign investors in Turkey, will pull the plug on them. Turkey will find it very hard to go it alone.

[JackDoe]

So why then does the USA not just pull out of Turkey instead of still insisting that Turkey should be allowed to join the EU?

You could ask them the same question about every other US base they’re hanging onto!

Is the USA planning on suggesting the EU accepts all the countries where ever they have bases?

The new technology still is not able to transport soldiers and equipment without the use of military vehicles and with the oil price being so high don't you think that it makes more sense for the US to stay friendly with Turkey?

Right, so how does Turkey’s "unique geographical advantage” help the US/Britain with the recent troubles in Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, or Libya?

With the exception of Iraq, Turkey has no geographical advantage to offer the US for every other trouble spot.

Where else would they station their troops? Is the UK willing to station troops in the UK and risk more terrorist attacks? I know there always is that risk but involving a foreign country will surely divert at least some away from homeground. Moreover and probably more importantly, it will keep Muslim countries from unifiying and making the fight harder for the UK/USA. Divide and conquer, as in Cyprus?

Have you heard something that no one else has?

I read a LOT of things that most, most likely do not.

Well, if you have you are not offering any real proof to back up what you are saying.

Don't you really know what I am talking about or do you just do not want to get into that conversation?

I haven't the slightest idea what that had to do with Turkey!

You mentioned the wealthy rich west and now you don't know what it has to do with Turkey?

Well, yes, must admit that you are right, no point in discussing anything if one side refuses or is incapable of answering even the simplest questions.

Hmm, maybe you're just too clever for this forum...

Anyone can ask questions but not everyone is able to give the right answers, as is evident.

[JackDoe]

What you are saying sounds to me like Erdogan used the west to his/Turkey's advantage instead of the west using Turkey. Is Erdogan really that clever?

Well Erdogan used the EU process to reign in the military and the secular elite at home. He certainly made the West think he was a moderate, democratic pro-Western leader. But they didn't think he'd end up cosying to Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah and break off relations with Israel. The West also thought the AKP were looking for way out of Cyprus and were serious about joining the EU. I don't think this makes Erdogan particularly "clever". He's basically a small-time religious hick out of his depth on the international stage.

Don't believe the hype about how the EU and US needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the West. Turkey has been sustained by the West until now with finance and arms while it has turned a blind eye to its excesses including the occupation of Cyprus. Do you think Turkey will be able to afford to maintain the occupation of Cyprus and fight a resurgent PKK without American military and financial support? All this will be over if Turkey chooses to become the new Iran. It will need to keep a foot in the Western camp and keep its EU accession path open - otherwise those who are already questioning Turkey's NATO membership will grow in number and Western investors, who make up the majority of foreign investors in Turkey, will pull the plug on them. Turkey will find it very hard to go it alone.

It's a chess game, as in the USA all Turkey has to do is to replace Erdogan with someone else to make the west believe Turkey has turned back towards the west and it's back to the beginning again.

We know that Turkey is not a big player and is not strong enough to do things on her own without someone backing her up. So the question is, who is backing her up and why?

Is it possible that Turkey is getting close to Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah so that the USA/UK have an "inside" man? ANd if that is the case, braking ties with Israel will be the most important thing, would it n ot?

[humanist]

halil

Burrows said his recent visit to Cyprus was important as it coincided with the Turkish Cypriots “rise up against being dominated and dependent on Turkey”.
“We talk about wanting to support a bi-zonal, bi-communal, federal solution to the Cyprus problem. The bi-communal bit means that there needs to be a Turkish Cypriot community able to stand on its own feet and not be wholly dependent on Turkey”.

Good luck, but Turkey has made it clear it has a strategic interests in Cyprus and you are not part of the considerations. Turkey will not allow BBF in Cyprus at all. The only way Cypriots will liberate themselves is to work together to oust Turkey. Your leadership admitted to being a Turk and wants acceptance by Turkey.

[Viewpoint]

halil

Burrows said his recent visit to Cyprus was important as it coincided with the Turkish Cypriots “rise up against being dominated and dependent on Turkey”.
“We talk about wanting to support a bi-zonal, bi-communal, federal solution to the Cyprus problem. The bi-communal bit means that there needs to be a Turkish Cypriot community able to stand on its own feet and not be wholly dependent on Turkey”.

Good luck, but Turkey has made it clear it has a strategic interests in Cyprus and you are not part of the considerations. Turkey will not allow BBF in Cyprus at all. The only way Cypriots will liberate themselves is to work together to oust Turkey. Your leadership admitted to being a Turk and wants acceptance by Turkey.

With no solution in sight we will continue on our way without you.