Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

WHEN I SAY TURKS I MEAN MAINLAND TURKS AND THE ROC bir has been very generous in these negotiations especially in the powersharing chapter where as turkey has not recipricated at all.unless yo can give me a example that they have.the truth is bir they dont have to give the t/c anything more then there 1960 rights but at the same token that would mean going all the way back to the 1960 agreements ie property.

And im sorry you may call it arrogance on the g/c part but i think the late t pap said it the best summed up everything"i will not deliver a country into a community"

call it hi jacking,manipulation whatever you want the ROC is International recognized entity within the EU AND UN an at the end of the day the t/c will have to come to terms with that and make a descion do i join the roc in a fair federation with local autonomy to the states or do i assimilate and eventually disappear under the turkish yoke.

[Kikapu]

There is nothing new in this paper,Kikapu...Everybody here knows all about it...I have already congratulated our GC cousins on their pyrric victory...They managed to turn the TCs into Cyprus Turks...
They didn't want to share power with 120,000 TCs...Now they will have to share power with 600,000 Cyprus Turks...It is too late to turn the clock back...It is all over...The GCs have won!

Well, lets not write the final chapter on the outcome of Cyprus yet, Bir. The settlers will not be allowed to become Cypriots/EU citizens, even in the off chance they were allowed to remain in Cyprus, which I very much doubt. But if they did, then the "weapon of choice" against them by the GCs/TCs combined (judging from the article I had posted on how the TCs feel about the settlers), will be an economic one. The settlers as non citizens of Cyprus will not be able to stand the economic hardship placed on them when everything starts to get expensive in the north where most will need to start paying rent to the owners of the property they now occupy, even if they will not be allowed to vacate the properties according to the ECHR. In time, they will face court actions to evict them, which many will just pack up and return back to Turkey, with perhaps some pocket money given to them by the new RoC for them to make a new start in their motherland, assuming Turkey will not take the initiative to handle her own people to bring them back home as she strives to become a EU member or a privileged partner.

You put too much faith in the legal processes,both local and international,Dear Kikapu...What you forget is Cyprus has its own laws,its own reality,and these hardly match anything any westernised person can imagine...Not even Turkey will be able to get the settlers (pardon,Cyprus Turks!) out of Cyprus,and their sheer number will force the authorities in the TC constituent state to give them the right to vote...You also make the same mistake as our GC cousins and put too much faith in EU's persuading power over Turkey...We shall see,I hope...

I will ask the question to both of you, if there was a unification can the mainland Turks apply for asylum in Cyprus? (A loop hole if you like to see it that way)

Under the UN as a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their;

race
religion
nationality
membership of a particular social group
political opinion.

If mainland Turks say they fear to go back because of political opinon or has this been discussed?

I do not remember this discussed,All4one...
It is a very good question though...I don't have the answer...Kikapu or others might be able to help...

But I think their best chance would be under 'humanitarian considerations'...If they are born in Cyprus,married to TCs,or have children born in Cyprus,and have been gainfully employed in Cyprus for a long time,and if dislocation would cause them financial and emotional hardship,I doubt they can be removed...

First of all, I hope All4114All does not belong to any "think tank" in the north to have come up with this so called "loop hole" to try and get the settlers to remain in Cyprus after a settlement is reached with this silly "refugee status" ideas. If that is the case however, they need to add few goldfishes into their "think tank" to bring up their collective IQ a little bit more to be able to think straight.

First of all, none of the settlers were persecuted in Turkey before they came to Cyprus and that they did NOT arrived to Cyprus as refugees.

Secondly, Turkey runs the north, so if they are not persecuted in the north now, then they will not be persecuted when they once again return back to Turkey.

Thirdly, the settlers came to Cyprus on their own free will illegally, therefore, they are in Cyprus as illegals and can be removed legally, even those who are married to Cypriots and have children born in Cyprus. The fact that the RoC is willing to allow 50,000 settlers after a settlement is reached, is another story. They will most likely include settlers who married to Cypriots and have children with them. I don't believe the RoC is obliged to do that, but will do so as a compromise, because in the end, these said people will be able to come back to Cyprus once they officially apply to return to Cyprus from Turkey after they are deported, so to save time and effort, it will be easier and better public relations to allow them to remain in the first place, but as to the rest, they will not have a legal or moral leg to stand on.

Fourthly, all the settlers are Turkish citizens, including all the children born to TC/Turk parents, therefore, they are not people without a country. They all have Turkish passports and Turkish citizenship's, and I'm almost certain, most of them now and in the past frequently come and go to Turkey without being persecuted, therefore, they have no case to try and conjure up some silly loop hole that they will be persecuted if they return or than they are in Cyprus only as refugees . Some may live like refugees in Cyprus which is a sad story, so perhaps they will have a better life in their home country of Turkey afterall, specially if they are given some cash to start frest in their own country. It won't be any worse for some them being in Turkey than being in Cyprus.

Last but not least, the fact that Turkey has done so much to Turkify the north to make it into a "little Turkey", all the settlers will not notice one little bit of difference by returning back to Turkey as far as custom, religion, language, food, schools, mosques, currency, standard of living, being ruled by Turkey, and endless more of other likeness of the north to Turkey, therefore, the settlers cannot say that by returning back to Turkey, they will be entering a completely different and foreign atmosphere. The only thing that will be different, is the fact that they drive on the right in Turkey and on the left in the north/Cyprus. It is also 60 miles away from Cyprus to Turkey, which is far shorter than what most people do to commute to work in some countries. Overall, All4114All's "loop hole" idea has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. I would advice them not to even bring it up, if they don't want to be laughed at by the EU.

[All4114All]

Thanks Kikapu it was a personal question that I wanted to know nothing in connection to any group or 'think tank' I am associated with just could not find the correct answer over the net.

[Kikapu]

Thanks Kikapu it was a personal question that I wanted to know nothing in connection to any group or 'think tank' I am associated with just could not find the correct answer over the net.

Happy to have helped you with your question.

[Nikitas]

Again the question arises: in a post solution situation how willing would genuine TCs be to see the best government jobs going to mainlanders? Forget the TC GC split, it is Cypriots and civil service jobs we are talking about, financed by Cypriot tax money. If you think that this will be accepted lightly then you have been away from Cyprus for tooooo long! Cypriots will fight tooth and nail for those jobs, why they would even fight their brother for one.

And now just think, there will be not one but THREE civil services. Two regional and one federal, with nice cushy jobs to be shared among the politically savvy who jockeyed for the right placement. Such a long local custom will not be upset by a bunch of yahoos from anywhere.

So I am optimistic not because of EU or other high principles, simply because I know how Cypriots behave when they realise where their self interest lies. And when that web starts working foreigners will simply give up and leave. Cypriots know how to exhaust even the most persistent foreigner. Ask the Greeks, they have experience.