Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

For a tiny country we have produced a disproportionately large number of forumers suffering from delusions of grandeur, or to use a fine Greek word, megalomania.

The most acute case of this incurable disease is suffered by GR who comes second only to the late Archbishop Makarios, the Paphos village-boy who believed he had become a world statesman, after he was elected president and could play politics with the big boys of the world.

We are still suffering the political consequences of this megalomaniac’s folly, even though many of our countrymen have never stopped believing the myth of his greatness that he cultivated during his autocratic rule with the assistance of self-serving brown-nosers and gullible simpletons.

The above is paraphrasing Patroklos from the newspaper all bash patriots love to hate.

Problem is, I’m the one behaving in accordance with human nature in line with the masses, but how do you explain your bizarre attitude?

Luckily, someone was kind enough to define your suffering so that we may have a better chance at understanding you…

Defeatism is acceptance of defeat without struggle. In everyday use, defeatism has negative connotation and is often linked to treason and pessimism, or even a hopeless situation such as a Catch-22. The term is commonly used in the context of war: a soldier can be a defeatist if he or she refuses to fight because he or she thinks that the fight will be lost for sure or that it is not worth fighting for some other reason. Again in connection with war, the term is used to refer to the view that defeat would be better than victory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeatism

OK I will have to agree with you here.

Defeatism will only lead to defeat.

Unfortunately, Bananiot is not alone. I would say that most Cypriots are defeatist, including their Governments.

Please note that this does not mean starting any wars at this point in time, because that would more than likely be the same as suicide.

Don't mean to ruin your childish parade, but any sane person will come to the same conclusion without being defeatist.

Paphiti
Had most Cypriots been defeatist they would have voted for the first plan that was offered to them, they didn't.

Approximately 70%of the population would not be involved in an armed struggle against a "then" superpower. Teenagers would fight in the streets with rocks, girls would carry weapons in their baskets and men would fight with guns in the mountains.

There would not be a NG. What would have been the point against the 2nd largest army in NATO. And yet we all serve with the words "molon labe" going through our heads. Some are so far off defeatism that they support the idea of an armed struggle against a trapped occupation army on the island. GR is not the only one here, I have 3 sirades 2 of them junior officers one serves as a T80 commander, one as a LOk and one is an OYK. They all hold a widely accepted view within those branches of the military that we're wasting our time and that we should strike soon as we have naval support cutting the island off. As in the pyrovoliko take a more relaxed view on this depending on a few upgrades we've been promised next year.

Another reason I wouldn't call this nation a defeated one is the speed in which we rebuilt the island, the economy and our lives after the invasion. English stoicness Kai malakies, the Cypriots all pulled together and until Vasillious presidency it was considered offensive to strike due to the damage done to the collective effort to built up the economy. Compare us to the Greeks here that in modern times have never worked toegether in a common goal ( swan song with the Nazis and then they fell apart into the many different left and right tribes.)

I would go as far as saying that most countries would have evacuated the entire island after withstanding the attack that we did in 74. We did'nt, we armed ourselves like porcupines, focused on making money and as a people were not fooled by defeatist plans presented to us by the entire world as our only salvation.

That's not defeatist, stupid maybe but definitely not defeatist.

[Cap]

What Ban doesn't realize is that every thread and every post here bears testimony to the collective mindset of survival and self preservation of every Kypraio. It has nothing to do with delusions of grandeur and expansionism.
What you are seeing is the product of a direct threat.

We don't want to invade and occupy Anatolia Ban. We want them out of our house.

[Bananiot]

Wow, dreaming of military triumphs and military solutions, it is worst than I thought. These small, minnow, micro megalomaniacs are fantastic arm chair soldiers too but it is a blessing they are just dreaming.

I think the gem of them all is the diagnosis that we voted against the Annan Plan because we are not defeatists. This is the time to be cynical and of course any change that may (or seemingly affect) our status (the financial one) will be perceived as defeatist.

GR, I thought you were a homosexual too, but this makes no difference to the way I perceive your ideas and I do not for a moment engage in useless exercises to explain your antics but perhaps, being a racist (pity you don't realise it, for you could have done something about it, perhaps) is likely to have all sorts of repercussions on you.

Eventually, you turn out to be a nationalist, religious bigot, militarist, racist but of course, not a defeatist! Perhaps, in due time we will be in for more revelations.

[Paphitis]

For a tiny country we have produced a disproportionately large number of forumers suffering from delusions of grandeur, or to use a fine Greek word, megalomania.

The most acute case of this incurable disease is suffered by GR who comes second only to the late Archbishop Makarios, the Paphos village-boy who believed he had become a world statesman, after he was elected president and could play politics with the big boys of the world.

We are still suffering the political consequences of this megalomaniac’s folly, even though many of our countrymen have never stopped believing the myth of his greatness that he cultivated during his autocratic rule with the assistance of self-serving brown-nosers and gullible simpletons.

The above is paraphrasing Patroklos from the newspaper all bash patriots love to hate.

Problem is, I’m the one behaving in accordance with human nature in line with the masses, but how do you explain your bizarre attitude?

Luckily, someone was kind enough to define your suffering so that we may have a better chance at understanding you…

Defeatism is acceptance of defeat without struggle. In everyday use, defeatism has negative connotation and is often linked to treason and pessimism, or even a hopeless situation such as a Catch-22. The term is commonly used in the context of war: a soldier can be a defeatist if he or she refuses to fight because he or she thinks that the fight will be lost for sure or that it is not worth fighting for some other reason. Again in connection with war, the term is used to refer to the view that defeat would be better than victory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeatism

OK I will have to agree with you here.

Defeatism will only lead to defeat.

Unfortunately, Bananiot is not alone. I would say that most Cypriots are defeatist, including their Governments.

Please note that this does not mean starting any wars at this point in time, because that would more than likely be the same as suicide.

Don't mean to ruin your childish parade, but any sane person will come to the same conclusion without being defeatist.

Paphiti
Had most Cypriots been defeatist they would have voted for the first plan that was offered to them, they didn't.

OK, I agree with you DT. Unfortunately I did not express my opinion correctly.

Approximately 70%of the population would not be involved in an armed struggle against a "then" superpower. Teenagers would fight in the streets with rocks, girls would carry weapons in their baskets and men would fight with guns in the mountains.

Once again I agree with you! No argument this end.

What Cypriots achieved (the then EOKA campaign) against a superpower was nothing short of remarkable and that generation was undoubtedly very courageous.

Again, Cypriots demonstrated the very same courage when the voted against the shameless Annan Plan. But what choice did they have?

Rejecting the Annan Plan was totally expected! Cypriots might want to ask any American, Australian, Brit, Canadian or any other EU citizen whether they would support such a plan in their own countries.

There would not be a NG. What would have been the point against the 2nd largest army in NATO. And yet we all serve with the words "molon labe" going through our heads. Some are so far off defeatism that they support the idea of an armed struggle against a trapped occupation army on the island. GR is not the only one here, I have 3 sirades 2 of them junior officers one serves as a T80 commander, one as a LOk and one is an OYK. They all hold a widely accepted view within those branches of the military that we're wasting our time and that we should strike soon as we have naval support cutting the island off. As in the pyrovoliko take a more relaxed view on this depending on a few upgrades we've been promised next year.

My comments are not directed at ANY of the men and women within the CNG. I can only hope that they remain safe DT, and they all have my very best wishes. I certainly hope that they will not be required to fire a single shot in anger, but I fully understand how they would be willing to serve and sacrifice all for our country and people. My only wish is that I could be in Cyprus with them. It all comes down to self respect and dignity and I believe that the persons you mentioned do in fact respect themselves, the RoC, and have kept their dignity intact in the face of an aggressive and militarily superior invader and aggressor.

I wouldn't call them defeatist at all!

However, I also believe that the Government is wasting their time, and that very little will be accomplished. This doesn't mean that I would want war to break out. That should be up to the Cypriot people, and whilst I am in Australia and have not served the CNG, I don't think it is appropriate to comment on this. I also don't believe that there are very high odds of any success at this point in time.

Now, there is a perception of very low morale within the CNG, which is no reflection of those within the ranks, but more of a reflection of the RoC Government. Also, the fact that 1 in 5 Cypriots will go to extreme lengths to avoid conscription is very sad in my view and is a bad reflection of these young boys/men and their parents and quite frankly, they are very disloyal to their country and should be ashamed of themselves.

I know what you may say. I haven't served but that is hardly my choice or fault. Not serving the CNG is something I am not happy about, and if I was in Cyprus and got called up, then I would be very proud and would enjoy the opportunity to give the RoC a pound of my flesh just like I did and continue to do for my country of birth and as a very proud Australian and Cypriot.

Another reason I wouldn't call this nation a defeated one is the speed in which we rebuilt the island, the economy and our lives after the invasion. English stoicness Kai malakies, the Cypriots all pulled together and until Vasillious presidency it was considered offensive to strike due to the damage done to the collective effort to built up the economy. Compare us to the Greeks here that in modern times have never worked toegether in a common goal ( swan song with the Nazis and then they fell apart into the many different left and right tribes.)

I wouldn't call Cyprus a defeated nation either. Yes, I stated that there are many defeatists among us, but you quite correctly pointed out that most are not. But as I said, I don't have much time or respect for the RoC politicians but respect their office. They most certainly are defeatist and I would love to throw tomatoes at them because that is all they deserve.

So I agree with you once again!

Cypriots have built a very strong and viable nation, whilst a good portion of the island is under occupation.

Sadly however, I do feel that Cyprus has changed for the worse and that many have become a little more selfish today than what they once were. The unions would have no hesitation in bringing down the nation when their comrade in Government is sent packing!

I would go as far as saying that most countries would have evacuated the entire island after withstanding the attack that we did in 74. We did'nt, we armed ourselves like porcupines, focused on making money and as a people were not fooled by defeatist plans presented to us by the entire world as our only salvation.

Bravo!

I wouldn't expect anything less from people such as yourself DT! Just don't give up and NEVER accept any defeatist style capitulation agreements. You certainly have the diaspora's support.

But just as a little side note, and please don't take this the wrong way, because at the end of the day I really do understand but I feel that in 74, Cypriots should not have evacuated their homes and allow the TA to easily cleanse GCs from their villages or towns. I feel that most should have stayed, but please, don't think I am being critical here.

In fact, I really don't know what to say, so I think it is better to stop right here just in case I offend someone which I don't want to do!

PS: Can you please tell me about the Naval Support you mentioned above that has trapped the occupation forces. I am not aware of this!

[Kikapu]

GR also forgets to tell you that the max. range of both these weapons system is well below where an F16 would fire or operate from... the TOR and the Mistral range is up to 16000 ft while an f16 fires from above 30,000 ft.

Another idiot talking rubbish! The ONLY thing a plane can do from 30k feet is DROP bombs… and not any kind of bombs due to the wind blowing them way off course!

To use accurate missiles and rockets, a fighter jet MUST descend to very vulnerable altitudes.

ok you ding bat, the f16 is capable of dropping cluster bombs from that altitude where each cluster bomb has 32 programable bomblets that cruise to their destined target.....

Any type of war on a small island like Cyprus where there are nationalities from many countries living on it in high concentration in many places, use of indiscriminate air power will not win the war without first killing half the population, including the ones you want to protect. Only a ground war will determine the winners and the losers. Very rarely air wars alone won anything in history, except of course, the NATO air campaign against the Serbs over Kosovo, and even then, it took around 70 days, which destroyed more structures in Serbia then in Kosovo to win the war.

Airpower is very accurate and surgical these days. It is about destroying infrastructure such as Airports, Harbours, roads, bridges, military bases, communications, radar facilities and softening the enemy before Ground troops are deployed, and then providing those troops some cover for protection and prevent enemy aircraft from attacking these troops.

Also, a mere 2 jets can be awfully intimidating for people as they fly over.

Generally speaking, ground troops want air cover, and this is what usually happens. Before Australian troops landed in East Timor, F18 jets would fly over Dili, on a daily bases in order to intimidate the Indonesians, their Army and militias.

Of course air power is important, but in the end, it is the ground forces that win wars.

In any case, I'm not so sure Turkey will be able to initiate another war with the RoC using their American F-16's, considering the fact, there is already a lawsuit seeking $1 Trillion (12 zeros) USD in the states for the USA allowing Turkey to use American weapons during the 74 events. I don't think the USA wants another major lawsuit on their hands. Shit, Cyprus will end up owning the USA given their financial problems at the moment.!

[Get Real!]

GR, I thought you were a homosexual too,

We should be seeing each other more often!

[denizaksulu]

GR, I thought you were a homosexual too,

We should be seeing each other more often!

Is Flo's Cafe a Gay Bar then?

[Get Real!]

GR, I thought you were a homosexual too,

We should be seeing each other more often!

Is Flo's Cafe a Gay Bar then?

It's turning into one...

[DT.]

For a tiny country we have produced a disproportionately large number of forumers suffering from delusions of grandeur, or to use a fine Greek word, megalomania.

The most acute case of this incurable disease is suffered by GR who comes second only to the late Archbishop Makarios, the Paphos village-boy who believed he had become a world statesman, after he was elected president and could play politics with the big boys of the world.

We are still suffering the political consequences of this megalomaniac’s folly, even though many of our countrymen have never stopped believing the myth of his greatness that he cultivated during his autocratic rule with the assistance of self-serving brown-nosers and gullible simpletons.

The above is paraphrasing Patroklos from the newspaper all bash patriots love to hate.

Problem is, I’m the one behaving in accordance with human nature in line with the masses, but how do you explain your bizarre attitude?

Luckily, someone was kind enough to define your suffering so that we may have a better chance at understanding you…

Defeatism is acceptance of defeat without struggle. In everyday use, defeatism has negative connotation and is often linked to treason and pessimism, or even a hopeless situation such as a Catch-22. The term is commonly used in the context of war: a soldier can be a defeatist if he or she refuses to fight because he or she thinks that the fight will be lost for sure or that it is not worth fighting for some other reason. Again in connection with war, the term is used to refer to the view that defeat would be better than victory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeatism

OK I will have to agree with you here.

Defeatism will only lead to defeat.

Unfortunately, Bananiot is not alone. I would say that most Cypriots are defeatist, including their Governments.

Please note that this does not mean starting any wars at this point in time, because that would more than likely be the same as suicide.

Don't mean to ruin your childish parade, but any sane person will come to the same conclusion without being defeatist.

Paphiti
Had most Cypriots been defeatist they would have voted for the first plan that was offered to them, they didn't.

OK, I agree with you DT. Unfortunately I did not express my opinion correctly.

Approximately 70%of the population would not be involved in an armed struggle against a "then" superpower. Teenagers would fight in the streets with rocks, girls would carry weapons in their baskets and men would fight with guns in the mountains.

Once again I agree with you! No argument this end.

What Cypriots achieved (the then EOKA campaign) against a superpower was nothing short of remarkable and that generation was undoubtedly very courageous.

Again, Cypriots demonstrated the very same courage when the voted against the shameless Annan Plan. But what choice did they have?

Rejecting the Annan Plan was totally expected! Cypriots might want to ask any American, Australian, Brit, Canadian or any other EU citizen whether they would support such a plan in their own countries.

There would not be a NG. What would have been the point against the 2nd largest army in NATO. And yet we all serve with the words "molon labe" going through our heads. Some are so far off defeatism that they support the idea of an armed struggle against a trapped occupation army on the island. GR is not the only one here, I have 3 sirades 2 of them junior officers one serves as a T80 commander, one as a LOk and one is an OYK. They all hold a widely accepted view within those branches of the military that we're wasting our time and that we should strike soon as we have naval support cutting the island off. As in the pyrovoliko take a more relaxed view on this depending on a few upgrades we've been promised next year.

My comments are not directed at ANY of the men and women within the CNG. I can only hope that they remain safe DT, and they all have my very best wishes. I certainly hope that they will not be required to fire a single shot in anger, but I fully understand how they would be willing to serve and sacrifice all for our country and people. My only wish is that I could be in Cyprus with them. It all comes down to self respect and dignity and I believe that the persons you mentioned do in fact respect themselves, the RoC, and have kept their dignity intact in the face of an aggressive and militarily superior invader and aggressor.

I wouldn't call them defeatist at all!

However, I also believe that the Government is wasting their time, and that very little will be accomplished. This doesn't mean that I would want war to break out. That should be up to the Cypriot people, and whilst I am in Australia and have not served the CNG, I don't think it is appropriate to comment on this. I also don't believe that there are very high odds of any success at this point in time.

Now, there is a perception of very low morale within the CNG, which is no reflection of those within the ranks, but more of a reflection of the RoC Government. Also, the fact that 1 in 5 Cypriots will go to extreme lengths to avoid conscription is very sad in my view and is a bad reflection of these young boys/men and their parents and quite frankly, they are very disloyal to their country and should be ashamed of themselves.

I know what you may say. I haven't served but that is hardly my choice or fault. Not serving the CNG is something I am not happy about, and if I was in Cyprus and got called up, then I would be very proud and would enjoy the opportunity to give the RoC a pound of my flesh just like I did and continue to do for my country of birth and as a very proud Australian and Cypriot.

Another reason I wouldn't call this nation a defeated one is the speed in which we rebuilt the island, the economy and our lives after the invasion. English stoicness Kai malakies, the Cypriots all pulled together and until Vasillious presidency it was considered offensive to strike due to the damage done to the collective effort to built up the economy. Compare us to the Greeks here that in modern times have never worked toegether in a common goal ( swan song with the Nazis and then they fell apart into the many different left and right tribes.)

I wouldn't call Cyprus a defeated nation either. Yes, I stated that there are many defeatists among us, but you quite correctly pointed out that most are not. But as I said, I don't have much time or respect for the RoC politicians but respect their office. They most certainly are defeatist and I would love to throw tomatoes at them because that is all they deserve.

So I agree with you once again!

Cypriots have built a very strong and viable nation, whilst a good portion of the island is under occupation.

Sadly however, I do feel that Cyprus has changed for the worse and that many have become a little more selfish today than what they once were. The unions would have no hesitation in bringing down the nation when their comrade in Government is sent packing!

I would go as far as saying that most countries would have evacuated the entire island after withstanding the attack that we did in 74. We did'nt, we armed ourselves like porcupines, focused on making money and as a people were not fooled by defeatist plans presented to us by the entire world as our only salvation.

Bravo!

I wouldn't expect anything less from people such as yourself DT! Just don't give up and NEVER accept any defeatist style capitulation agreements. You certainly have the diaspora's support.

But just as a little side note, and please don't take this the wrong way, because at the end of the day I really do understand but I feel that in 74, Cypriots should not have evacuated their homes and allow the TA to easily cleanse GCs from their villages or towns. I feel that most should have stayed, but please, don't think I am being critical here.

In fact, I really don't know what to say, so I think it is better to stop right here just in case I offend someone which I don't want to do!

PS: Can you please tell me about the Naval Support you mentioned above that has trapped the occupation forces. I am not aware of this!

Hey man, don't worry about insulting me, I couldn't be insulted by you cause at the end of the day I know we're pretty much arguing the same points. I also have no respect for the politicians of Cyprus who have made a career out of the cyprus problem.

As for bananiot and his insistence on the annan plan then all I can say is that if someone deserves to live under such circumstances , its definitely bananiot.

The naval support I mentioned were the Greek submarines that could have ended the invasion before it began had the junta not pulled them back following the betrayal.

All strategies we studied in Greece involved a naval blockade of Cyprus prior to anything else happening.

[boulio]

the german subs greece had received plus the initial f-4 phantoms would have been desicive if used.