Cyprus-Forum.com

[kurupetos]

Its a BBF or nothing.

Nothing.

[Get Real!]

Its a BBF or nothing.

The RoC government can revoke that goodwill gesture at ANY moment and they will have nobody to answer to and there is NOTHING anyone can legally do against a sovereign UN member that has decided that 37 years of being taken for granted has produced the OPPOSITE effect of solving the CyProb!

And which country would blame them?

Tell Kikapu that hes telling us otherwise, who is lieing here?

Kiks has his opinion but as with most posters here, he ignores international law all too often... yet it's the one thing that keeps coming back to bite.

For who can possibly deny that it is THIS foolish goodwill gesture that has prolonged the CyProb to almost 40 years!

I ask you! Because instead of concentrating on the persecution of international law, we have stupidly allowed the perpetrator to get away with crimes and be negotiating against the victim!

[Get Real!]

If someone commits a murder and instead of him being tried and put behind bars for 30-40 years, he is allowed to negotiate the terms with the judges and the victim’s family, (say it’s a new criminal rehab experiment being tested) what are the chances of such a case ever coming to a close?

ZERO!

[humanist]

DTA

And

No it is not my issues, it is just that I expected more from you, perhaps I was fooled by the username, or saw something in one of your posts, don't worry I won't make that mistake again.

If you are going to make such comments you best back them up.

If you were fooled by my username that is your issue. Provide evidence of unfairness.

I stand by my comments. Whilst TC's allign with Turkey to occupy My Country as well as others including peace loving TC's I support the economic embargoes and the non recognition of of the illegally occupied northern sector of Cyprus. Think of that what ever you like. The UN has deemed the Turkish occupation illegal and as such has urged the world not to recognise or do business with this part of Cyprus which is under Turkish and Turkish Cypriot speaker occupation.

I support any TC who wishes to return to their homes and if there is a GC refugee living in their home I believe the GC refugee ought to be relocated by the State.

I would support any movement from the "trnc" leadership to do the same and allow GC refugees to return to their homes aso.

Now If you have had enough of me you may choose not to throw allegations toward me and you will not hear more about your atrocities towards your compatriots.

[BirKibrisli]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

The ROC certainly does have the right to liberate the north from the illegal occupying force but how are you going to do this or do you have a cunning "Baldrick" style plan that you do not wish to divulge?

If you asked the Latvians in say 1975 how they would liberate themselves from USSR do you thin they would have a plan? If you asked the Greeks in 1600 how they would liberate themselves from the Ottomans, do you think they would have a plan?

The balance of power constantly changes. What we should do is be prepared so when it changes we will be able to take advantage of it. Prepared in this case means: Maintaining our rights over the whole island. Maintaining a decent army that can handle the Turkish troops stationed in Cyprus. Create good relationships with other nations with whom we have common interests.

And keep in mind that I never talked about a 1 on 1 war between Cyprus and Turkey.

I am not a future teller, but if you insist on a possible scenario, here it is: Turkey fails to gain access to the EU. It turns to the east and becomes close to Iran and other Islamic countries. Soon after it turns into an Islamic Theocracy itself, and loses the support of the USA. At some point it attempts, along with other Islamic countries, to destroy Israel. Israel, USA and EU cooperate and win the war. Greece and Cyprus played an important part in the war against Turkey. To punish Turkey and ensure that it will never again gain that degree of power, the allies return north Cyprus to RoC, while they divide Turkey by recognizing an independent Kurdish state.

So you are basing your 'liberation' scenario on the almost non existent possibility of the clash of civilisations ignated by religious differences...
Very wise...Have you ever considered what Cyprus would look like at the aftermath of such a devastating clash??? Do you think there will be one Cypriot still standing??? Or one city still habitable??? I am lost for words...All I can say is 'good luck'...With ideas like this,you might need more than luck though...

[Piratis]

I am not a future teller, but if you insist on a possible scenario, here it is: Turkey fails to gain access to the EU. It turns to the east and becomes close to Iran and other Islamic countries. Soon after it turns into an Islamic Theocracy itself, and loses the support of the USA. At some point it attempts, along with other Islamic countries, to destroy Israel. Israel, USA and EU cooperate and win the war. Greece and Cyprus played an important part in the war against Turkey. To punish Turkey and ensure that it will never again gain that degree of power, the allies return north Cyprus to RoC, while they divide Turkey by recognizing an independent Kurdish state.

I have always taken your posts seriously Piratis - up to now.
Here's three more scenarios for you: -

The US, without EU consent, permits Turkey to take the rest of the island in exchange for "everlasting loyalty"

In 50 years time, following defeat of the islamists, Turkey is "gifted" Cyprus by the greatlful US. (it could be China by then)

Turkey provokes the ROC into defending itself, wins the war and kicks all of the GCs off the island.

The list is endless, but like you I'm not being serious.

Do you honestly believe that in another 2-3 generations GCs will be as passionate about returning to the north as they are today? Most of my generation will not be here in 20 years time, their grandchildren will have little or no interest in solving the Cyprus problem or claiming back what is theirs.

I find your scenarios highly unlikely. But even if we assume those scenarios could become true, how would it be easier for such scenarios to materialize: (1) If the two communities are separate as they are today OR (2) if we have something like we had in 1960, but far worst, where for anything to happen both sides would have to agree, they would often not, there would be deadlocks, which could even lead to conflicts (probably provoked by Turkey)? I think it is obvious that any scenario that involves Turkey taking the rest of the island becomes much more likely with the second case.

As I said I am not a future teller and I don't know what the future will bring. What I know is what is the best available option for us now, and also what we should do in order to increase our chances in the future under a different balance of power.

One of the things we should do is the education of future generations. Turks are the enemy who occupy our lands, and this is something future generations of Cypriots should be taught about. If we do our job correctly, then future generations can have even more passion than we do. It is entirely up to us.

[Piratis]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

The ROC certainly does have the right to liberate the north from the illegal occupying force but how are you going to do this or do you have a cunning "Baldrick" style plan that you do not wish to divulge?

If you asked the Latvians in say 1975 how they would liberate themselves from USSR do you thin they would have a plan? If you asked the Greeks in 1600 how they would liberate themselves from the Ottomans, do you think they would have a plan?

The balance of power constantly changes. What we should do is be prepared so when it changes we will be able to take advantage of it. Prepared in this case means: Maintaining our rights over the whole island. Maintaining a decent army that can handle the Turkish troops stationed in Cyprus. Create good relationships with other nations with whom we have common interests.

And keep in mind that I never talked about a 1 on 1 war between Cyprus and Turkey.

I am not a future teller, but if you insist on a possible scenario, here it is: Turkey fails to gain access to the EU. It turns to the east and becomes close to Iran and other Islamic countries. Soon after it turns into an Islamic Theocracy itself, and loses the support of the USA. At some point it attempts, along with other Islamic countries, to destroy Israel. Israel, USA and EU cooperate and win the war. Greece and Cyprus played an important part in the war against Turkey. To punish Turkey and ensure that it will never again gain that degree of power, the allies return north Cyprus to RoC, while they divide Turkey by recognizing an independent Kurdish state.

So you are basing your 'liberation' scenario on the almost non existent possibility of the clash of civilisations ignated by religious differences...
Very wise...Have you ever considered what Cyprus would look like at the aftermath of such a devastating clash??? Do you think there will be one Cypriot still standing??? Or one city still habitable??? I am lost for words...All I can say is 'good luck'...With ideas like this,you might need more than luck though...

I think such a clash is far more likely than what you believe, but that was just one example.

A war was not my choice. My choice was democracy. No conflicts, no casualties. Just votes. People cast their votes and a decision is democratically taken. Unfortunately you rejected this method of taking decisions. You choose the method were what happens is decided by how much military power each side has and imposing your will by brute force. Therefore you don't give us any other way of ruling our own island. Do you?

[Paphitis]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

The ROC certainly does have the right to liberate the north from the illegal occupying force but how are you going to do this or do you have a cunning "Baldrick" style plan that you do not wish to divulge?

If you asked the Latvians in say 1975 how they would liberate themselves from USSR do you thin they would have a plan? If you asked the Greeks in 1600 how they would liberate themselves from the Ottomans, do you think they would have a plan?

The balance of power constantly changes. What we should do is be prepared so when it changes we will be able to take advantage of it. Prepared in this case means: Maintaining our rights over the whole island. Maintaining a decent army that can handle the Turkish troops stationed in Cyprus. Create good relationships with other nations with whom we have common interests.

And keep in mind that I never talked about a 1 on 1 war between Cyprus and Turkey.

I am not a future teller, but if you insist on a possible scenario, here it is: Turkey fails to gain access to the EU. It turns to the east and becomes close to Iran and other Islamic countries. Soon after it turns into an Islamic Theocracy itself, and loses the support of the USA. At some point it attempts, along with other Islamic countries, to destroy Israel. Israel, USA and EU cooperate and win the war. Greece and Cyprus played an important part in the war against Turkey. To punish Turkey and ensure that it will never again gain that degree of power, the allies return north Cyprus to RoC, while they divide Turkey by recognizing an independent Kurdish state.

So you are basing your 'liberation' scenario on the almost non existent possibility of the clash of civilisations ignated by religious differences...
Very wise...Have you ever considered what Cyprus would look like at the aftermath of such a devastating clash??? Do you think there will be one Cypriot still standing??? Or one city still habitable??? I am lost for words...All I can say is 'good luck'...With ideas like this,you might need more than luck though...

Don't be so foolish! A clash of civilizations is inevitable as night is to day. Humankind will be ravaged and will fall into a new Dark Age. What is uncertain, is who will have the upper hand. But what is certain is that this clash of civilizations will be a war of unprecedented scale and magnitude and where humankind will lose all reason. What is also certain is this major event
will result in massive balance of power shifts, which also gradually change over time.

We have not learnt from past mistakes, and humanity is not as enlightened as we seem to think. Humanity has not changed much from the days of Alexander The Great. Today's superpower is no different, and future superpowers have the potential of being far worse than Nazi Germany even.

These are the most likely scenarios, and if you follow world affairs then you should realize how close we already are to such a calamity of prophetic proportions:

1. A war between China, North Korea against South Korea, also involving Japan, Taiwan and allies,
2. A war between a united Islamic (Arabic) Front against Israel,
3. A war between a Taliban controlled Pakistan and India,
4. A war between an adventurous China against Russia, Japan, South Korea and other staunch US allies such as Australia in particular, who now base forward Defence Planning on the prospect of containing China with US assistance.

Scenario 1 is the most likely at present, followed by scenario 3. Scenario 2 will have the largest impact on Cyprus, whilst scenario 4 is the least likely at the moment.

It is not a question of whether such an event will occur or not. It is a question of when! Australia spends 20 Billion USD on Defence each year buying top shelf hardware which is normally not available to UK, Canada, NATO, or even Israel. We are talking about Strategic strike capability with stealth F22s. The reason is that there is a great deal of trust between the 2 allies. But the biggest reason is the small matter of containing China once it begins to change its posture.

All this will have a profound effect on Cyprus. Scenario 2 will have the boggest effect on the East Mediterranean balance of power.

[denizaksulu]

It's not often I agree with the Cyprus Mail...

Our View: Rallies actually against Ankara’s refusal to keep picking up tab

SOME 25,000 Turkish Cypriots turned up in Inonu Square in north Nicosia yesterday for the much-hyped rally against Ankara’s spending cuts in the north.

There was a better turn-out than for the previous rally which provoked the ire of Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan and sparked angry exchanges between the two sides. Furious by what he saw as the ingratitude of the Turkish Cypriots, Erdogan branded them ‘freeloaders’.

Wednesday’s rally was an act of defiance by the 30 unions and opposition parties which had refused to be intimidated by Erdogan’s bullying and vowed not to give up the fight against the spending cuts. Demonstrators again held flags of the Cyprus Republic in an act calculated to infuriate Erdogan who had taken great offence at the appearance of the flags at the previous rally.

Placards declared: ‘This is our country, let’s run it ourselves’ and warned ‘Take your hands off Turkish Cypriots’.

Other slogans highlighted Turkish Cypriots’ fears that the north was being overrun by Turks, declaring: ‘No, to our extinction’. Some demonstrators even showed nostalgia for the Cyprus Republic and demanded the immediate re-unification of the island.

It would be a big mistake to interpret this as an upheaval against Turkish presence as some left-wing commentators in the Republic have done.

The truth is that the protests are aimed at the Turkish government’s spending cuts and its warning that it would not carry on funding the over-staffed and over-paid public sector in the north. Had Ankara carried on picking up the tab, nobody would be on the streets protesting against Turkey’s interference and expressing a yearning for re-unification.

Nobody would be complaining about the threat of extinction of the Turkish Cypriot community if the pay-rises kept coming. This is not to say there is no threat - the arrival of Turkish nationals in the north has risen significantly and the general belief is that Turkish Cypriots are heavily out-numbered. It is only a question of time before the north becomes a province of Turkey and Turkish Cypriots lose their political say. Erdogan hinted at this when disparaging the ingratitude of the demonstrators.

We suspect the Turkish Cypriots are beginning to realise that the comfortable lifestyle at the expense of the Turkish taxpayer is coming to an end. Erdogan has made this clear and he does not look like a man who would be forced into changing his mind by a few thousand people demonstrating in the streets. There may be more futile acts of defiance like yesterday’s rally, but the truth is that the party is over, in every sense, for the Turkish Cypriots.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/opinions/our ... b/20110303

An interesting title for this thread. The way things are going, it is also the end of your party soon. If matters go on as they are now, the north will be lost for you forever. You wont see us gloating, but that is going to happen. (I pray that I am wrong). Now on with the rest of this thread.

[BirKibrisli]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

The ROC certainly does have the right to liberate the north from the illegal occupying force but how are you going to do this or do you have a cunning "Baldrick" style plan that you do not wish to divulge?

If you asked the Latvians in say 1975 how they would liberate themselves from USSR do you thin they would have a plan? If you asked the Greeks in 1600 how they would liberate themselves from the Ottomans, do you think they would have a plan?

The balance of power constantly changes. What we should do is be prepared so when it changes we will be able to take advantage of it. Prepared in this case means: Maintaining our rights over the whole island. Maintaining a decent army that can handle the Turkish troops stationed in Cyprus. Create good relationships with other nations with whom we have common interests.

And keep in mind that I never talked about a 1 on 1 war between Cyprus and Turkey.

I am not a future teller, but if you insist on a possible scenario, here it is: Turkey fails to gain access to the EU. It turns to the east and becomes close to Iran and other Islamic countries. Soon after it turns into an Islamic Theocracy itself, and loses the support of the USA. At some point it attempts, along with other Islamic countries, to destroy Israel. Israel, USA and EU cooperate and win the war. Greece and Cyprus played an important part in the war against Turkey. To punish Turkey and ensure that it will never again gain that degree of power, the allies return north Cyprus to RoC, while they divide Turkey by recognizing an independent Kurdish state.

So you are basing your 'liberation' scenario on the almost non existent possibility of the clash of civilisations ignated by religious differences...
Very wise...Have you ever considered what Cyprus would look like at the aftermath of such a devastating clash??? Do you think there will be one Cypriot still standing??? Or one city still habitable??? I am lost for words...All I can say is 'good luck'...With ideas like this,you might need more than luck though...

I think such a clash is far more likely than what you believe, but that was just one example.

A war was not my choice. My choice was democracy. No conflicts, no casualties. Just votes. People cast their votes and a decision is democratically taken. Unfortunately you rejected this method of taking decisions. You choose the method were what happens is decided by how much military power each side has and imposing your will by brute force. Therefore you don't give us any other way of ruling our own island. Do you?

If you were not so stubborn to impose your will on the TCs,we could've been living happily ever after in the Roc according to the 1960 constitution and international agreements...You still have the chance to share power with us via a BBF...If you insist on your maximum demands you will have to wait for your'balance of power change', and try your luck on the battle field...Good luck!