Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Ok dude you know best, enjoy!

Yes, I will enjoy!

Thanks!

Maybe you too will enjoy freedom, democracy and HRs one day.

[Kikapu]

We always have the internationally accepted 1960 agreements to fall back on.

Really.?

I thought those agreement are no longer valid due to the new agreement to have a BBF. One of the blunders by Denktash I may add, but then again, he thought the Cyprus Problem was solved in 1974. In any case, the RoC will just ignore it and continue as they are doing today without the TCs involved in the government. The world doesn't seem to mind with the present arrangement at all, are they.??..

But if you were to use the 1960 agreements, then be prepared for the TCs to be sent to jail or exile (their choice) for colluding with the enemy in trying to destroy the Republic of Cyprus and secede from it. Most countries that is punishable by firing squad. Lucky for us TCs, the RoC is in the EU and such punishment is not allowed.

Think of it as an insurance policy, i believe they still have ourr seats reserved in parliament and have to accept us if we decide to claim our rights under the 1960 agreements which includes veto rights and vice president post.

Only if the GCs agree to change the BBF agreements made by Denktash and Makarios back to the 1960 agreements. I don't think they will and you can't force them. The day Denktash agreed of the terms of BBF, is when the TCs lost what they had in the 1960 agreements. To go to something else different from the agreed BBF, it will not look anything like the 1960 agreements. The problem with the TCs is, they have not been paying their insurance premiums for the last 48 years, therefore, their 1960 agreement insurance has already run out. The seats may be empty and waiting, but it does not mean that the TCs will get what they left behind. It will need to be re-negotiated to include Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU Principles and in a Unitary state, since BBF will no longer apply.

So in effect the GCs cannot back out of a BBF with out the agreement of the TCs?

I don't see the GCs in trying to get out of BBF, can you.? If anything, I see the TCs in trying to get out of the BBF and into a BBC, as in Confederation from the agreed Federation in BBF. For the GCs, having a True Federation with all the EU Principles will suit them just fine and that is what they will settle for, and in my opinion, the same principles will also do good for the TCs. No matter what options may have been available to determine what BBF may have looked like before 2004, it sure has no options but to apply the EU principles to any BBF settlement as of 2004. The only reason as to why the TCs have not accepted BBF in the form of True Federation, is because they still have their Taksim Dreams alive, which is what's holding them back from having a settlement. So, if anything, it is the TCs who are trying to get out of BBF and not the GCs. As long as BBF is not agreed on based on EU principles, there is no reason for the GCs to try and leave the BBF, and the fact that they cannot leave it without the TCs approval, you are in fact doing them a favour by keeping them in BBF, because they still have the RoC with all it benefits and privileges as long as nothing new is agreed to, whereas the "trnc" doesn't have anything as long as the GCs do not agree to walk away from the BBF, with or without the TCs approval. BBF under EU principles is perhaps 1000 times better for the GCs than the 1960 agreements were, so why would they want to leave the BBF. Does it not tell you why Christofias is pushing for BBF with no time frames while Eroglu is pushing for BBC with time frames. The GCs can continue like this for a long time to give them time to bolster their new found political power within the EU for themselves and also against Turkey's occupation, as well as increasing their economic opportunities with the new found natural resources of the southern coast of Cyprus.

can you supply independent evidence of this claim?

The fact that BBF has been around for the last 30+ years is all the proof you need that neither side can walk away from it without both parties can agree to do so. I'm sure Eroglu would love to dump BBF, but he can't and Christofias is under no obligation to accept anything less than True Federation and the EU Principles for a settlement. He's not even obliged to offer "Rotation Presidency", but he has. You can see what happened to the GCs and the TCs because the GCs did not agree to BBF Annan Plan style. They got the RoC into the EU and continue to prosper economically and Politically and the TCs with the "trnc" got next to nothing. So don't assume that the GCs are in a hurry to dump the BBF by you thinking that the TCs will not let them escape BBF. They are not in a hurry to leave BBF anytime soon, since it will be far better for them than the 1960 agreements. The TCs can't leave it either, whether they want to or not, because the GCs will not agree to it for it to happen, but in the meantime, the TCs can't get anything in return while waiting for a settlement, except Turkey's political and economical rule over the "trnc". It may be time for the TCs to re-evaluate their position on how they can too benefit from BBF, because since 2004, it is a new ball game and the days of the AP is gone for ever. Something to think about if one wants to live in the real world, away from the imaginary one.

[boulio]

vp and some t/c dont under statnd that a great majority of policy and descions for nations that are in the eu are taken in bruselles not in the coutry capital.

[Piratis]

The settlers don't have any such rights in Cyprus.
Turkey and not Cyprus is responsible for the Turkish citizens.

Cyprus has every right to deport them, like they can do with any other foreigner.

The how the settlers will move out is also Turkey's problem (assuming that the Cyprus Problem is solved peacefully). The same way they will be responsible to move their troops out they will also be responsible to move their settlers. Obviously we will not accept any solution that does not include this.

Thus spoke Piratis...So Jerry,forget about the decisions of the ECHR,or any other international precedents,in Cyprus what GCs like Piratis say goes...They are the lawmakers ,and the enforcers...There are no appeal rights...VEry democratic our Piratis!

If you don't like our ways, no problem. We will treat you with your ways. In the exact same way you took our homes, we will take them back. That would be fine with you right? As they say "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Viewpoint wrote:
So in effect the GCs cannot back out of a BBF with out the agreement of the TCs?


I don't see the GCs in trying to get out of BBF, can you.? If anything, I see the TCs in trying to get out of the BBF and into a BBC, as in Confederation from the agreed Federation in BBF. For the GCs, having a True Federation with all the EU Principles will suit them just fine and that is what they will settle for, and in my opinion, the same principles will also do good for the TCs. No matter what options may have been available to determine what BBF may have looked like before 2004, it sure has no options but to apply the EU principles to any BBF settlement as of 2004. The only reason as to why the TCs have not accepted BBF in the form of True Federation, is because they still have their Taksim Dreams alive, which is what's holding them back from having a settlement. So, if anything, it is the TCs who are trying to get out of BBF and not the GCs. As long as BBF is not agreed on based on EU principles, there is no reason for the GCs to try and leave the BBF, and the fact that they cannot leave it without the TCs approval, you are in fact doing them a favour by keeping them in BBF, because they still have the RoC with all it benefits and privileges as long as nothing new is agreed to, whereas the "trnc" doesn't have anything as long as the GCs do not agree to walk away from the BBF, with or without the TCs approval. BBF under EU principles is perhaps 1000 times better for the GCs than the 1960 agreements were, so why would they want to leave the BBF. Does it not tell you why Christofias is pushing for BBF with no time frames while Eroglu is pushing for BBC with time frames. The GCs can continue like this for a long time to give them time to bolster their new found political power within the EU for themselves and also against Turkey's occupation, as well as increasing their economic opportunities with the new found natural resources of the southern coast of Cyprus.

So your answer is yes I am right they cannot walk away from a BBF without our say so, can you kindly tell other GCs.

Viewpoint wrote:
can you supply independent evidence of this claim?


The fact that BBF has been around for the last 30+ years is all the proof you need that neither side can walk away from it without both parties can agree to do so. I'm sure Eroglu would love to dump BBF, but he can't and Christofias is under no obligation to accept anything less than True Federation and the EU Principles for a settlement. He's not even obliged to offer "Rotation Presidency", but he has. You can see what happened to the GCs and the TCs because the GCs did not agree to BBF Annan Plan style. They got the RoC into the EU and continue to prosper economically and Politically and the TCs with the "trnc" got next to nothing. So don't assume that the GCs are in a hurry to dump the BBF by you thinking that the TCs will not let them escape BBF. They are not in a hurry to leave BBF anytime soon, since it will be far better for them than the 1960 agreements. The TCs can't leave it either, whether they want to or not, because the GCs will not agree to it for it to happen, but in the meantime, the TCs can't get anything in return while waiting for a settlement, except Turkey's political and economical rule over the "trnc". It may be time for the TCs to re-evaluate their position on how they can too benefit from BBF, because since 2004, it is a new ball game and the days of the AP is gone for ever. Something to think about if one wants to live in the real world, away from the imaginary one.

So no evidence.

[Jerry]

If you don't like our ways, no problem. We will treat you with your ways. In the exact same way you took our homes, we will take them back. That would be fine with you right? As they say "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"

How?

[Bananiot]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

[Piratis]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

[Viewpoint]

No Piratis we will fight back even harder than before.

[Jerry]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

The ROC certainly does have the right to liberate the north from the illegal occupying force but how are you going to do this or do you have a cunning "Baldrick" style plan that you do not wish to divulge?