Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

The sad conclusion I have come to is that Cypriots are not ready to join the ranks of humanity...They remain tribal animals still functioning on primitive instincts

Speak for yourself. Don't try and paint all Cypriots with the same brush.

The problems on this island would be eased considerably once the Turkish army leaves, Turkish territorial claims are abandoned and the Turkish Cypriots give up their separatist agitations. Take away the Turkish occupation of the island and you'll see how quickly things would change. Especially once the rights of all citizens would be enshrined by EU law.

On the other hand, an unfair imposed "solution" like the Annan Plan would have sewn seeds of distrust, hatred and bitterness that would've been catastrophic for the island's future.

My advice to Turkish Cypriots is to work for a solution that returns justice to the island and doesn't disadvantage the majority 82 per cent of Greek Cypriots. That is the best way to ensure harmony and lasting peace on the island for all Cypriots.

[boomerang]

you should be kinder when taling about tcs...it's bad enough the turks calling you parasites...shame on you...

Anlayana sivrisinek saz,anlamayana davul zurna az....

Rough translation :He who want to hear will hear the buzz of a mosquito,and He who has no intention of hearing will ignore the sound of a drum...

Comprendre amigo???

yeah i comprende pendejo...you are a joke...

[Piratis]

Easy! Wait for the balance of power to change and pounce. But, will the enemy wait or will it heed Piratis's war cry and take pre emptive action?

They will wait because they have no excuse to take any pre emptive action, while we will have every right to liberate our own lands when the balance of power will allow this.

The ROC certainly does have the right to liberate the north from the illegal occupying force but how are you going to do this or do you have a cunning "Baldrick" style plan that you do not wish to divulge?

If you asked the Latvians in say 1975 how they would liberate themselves from USSR do you thin they would have a plan? If you asked the Greeks in 1600 how they would liberate themselves from the Ottomans, do you think they would have a plan?

The balance of power constantly changes. What we should do is be prepared so when it changes we will be able to take advantage of it. Prepared in this case means: Maintaining our rights over the whole island. Maintaining a decent army that can handle the Turkish troops stationed in Cyprus. Create good relationships with other nations with whom we have common interests.

And keep in mind that I never talked about a 1 on 1 war between Cyprus and Turkey.

I am not a future teller, but if you insist on a possible scenario, here it is: Turkey fails to gain access to the EU. It turns to the east and becomes close to Iran and other Islamic countries. Soon after it turns into an Islamic Theocracy itself, and loses the support of the USA. At some point it attempts, along with other Islamic countries, to destroy Israel. Israel, USA and EU cooperate and win the war. Greece and Cyprus played an important part in the war against Turkey. To punish Turkey and ensure that it will never again gain that degree of power, the allies return north Cyprus to RoC, while they divide Turkey by recognizing an independent Kurdish state.

So you are basing your 'liberation' scenario on the almost non existent possibility of the clash of civilisations ignated by religious differences...
Very wise...Have you ever considered what Cyprus would look like at the aftermath of such a devastating clash??? Do you think there will be one Cypriot still standing??? Or one city still habitable??? I am lost for words...All I can say is 'good luck'...With ideas like this,you might need more than luck though...

I think such a clash is far more likely than what you believe, but that was just one example.

A war was not my choice. My choice was democracy. No conflicts, no casualties. Just votes. People cast their votes and a decision is democratically taken. Unfortunately you rejected this method of taking decisions. You choose the method were what happens is decided by how much military power each side has and imposing your will by brute force. Therefore you don't give us any other way of ruling our own island. Do you?

If you were not so stubborn to impose your will on the TCs,we could've been living happily ever after in the Roc according to the 1960 constitution and international agreements...You still have the chance to share power with us via a BBF...If you insist on your maximum demands you will have to wait for your'balance of power change', and try your luck on the battle field...Good luck!

We will wait for the balance of power to change, and when it does, we will remember that you supported a "solution" based on ethnic cleansing and the violation of human rights. We will give you a solution just like that.

Thank you,Piratis...We are under no illusion that you will be doing anything else...You have been trying to do it since 1950s...Beter luck next time...But I am afraid neiither of us will live long enough to see that day...You can be proud of the present you will leave your children,a package of bitterness ,hatred,and desire for revenge...I am sure of one thing now,Cyprus is too small for two communities,one of them will have to go...With people like you around,there is no other option...

The problem is with people like you, not people like me. Personally I have no problem to accept for Cyprus what they have in all other successful multi-ethnic countries: Equality among all citizens regardless of their ethnicity, race or anything else, democracy, human rights for all, no racist divisions, no racist segregation.

But since you don't accept the principles that make for a successful multi-ethnic country, and you instead want to steal our lands and violate our human and democratic rights, that means we can't have a successful multi-ethnic country in Cyprus, and that means the war will go on until you are defeated.

[Kikapu]

An interesting title for this thread. The way things are going, it is also the end of your party soon.

Not really. The fact that some T/Cs have woken up after all these years just confirms what we have been saying all along.

Meanwhile, as some commentators have argued, Turkey's nationalistic belligerence risks undermining its own best interests - which depends on EU accession. No matter what Erdogan or Bagis say. Turkey needs a solution more than they care to admit. The sticking point is that Turkey wants a solution on its terms - the Annan Plan in other words. Which ignores the reality of the ROC's EU accession. That's where we are today. Turkey wants to turn the clock back to 2004 only this time for the G/Cs to say yes. But that moment has gone and Turkey hasn't come to terms with it yet.

You can add VP to the "living in denial" crowd also.

There are many people here 'living in denial',Kikapu...Other are living with a burning desire for revengeand retribution for real and imaginery crimes in the past...
And some are living in a perpetual cloud of selfsatisfied arrogance and wishful thinking...

The sad conclusion I have come to is that Cypriots are not ready to join the ranks of humanity...They remain tribal animals still functioning on primitive instincts...They have no chance in the world of ever determining their own destiny..They will fight till one side can no longer stand on its feet,and then when they fell they will be kicked to kingdom come...Lets hope that day comes sooner rather than later...Even animals need to be put out of their misery... :(

Come on my friend , Bir. Have more faith in Cypriots to do the right thing amongst themselves than what they have not been allowed to do by outsiders. We do not have a recorded time where Cypriots have been their own masters of their own island, but it does not mean it cannot happen. No one can deny that a lot has happened in the past that would seem that there can never be trust and respect be given to the other side from each side, but history shows us that that is not so. People can change their views if they are treated fair and as equals, and thanks to Cyprus being in the EU, the EU can act as a great catalyst to see that ALL Cypriots are treated fairly and as equals. We have seen what inequality and hatred has done to Cypriots and before we all go to point of no return, it is time for all Cypriots to accept Democracy, Human rights, International Law and the EU Principles. It can only make thing better than what we have had in the past and what we have now. What do we have to lose by trying out Democracy for Cyprus. We have tried out everything else it seems, but to no avail, and if the rest of the west can live with Democracy with all their multi ethnic societies, there is no reason why Cyprus cannot also.

[boomerang]

Birturk forgets a lot of tcs cross over daily for employment in government and private industry...how come if there is hate and animosity these tcs get employed?...birturk is part of the problem...he is a TMT yesterday's dinosaur....

[BirKibrisli]

An interesting title for this thread. The way things are going, it is also the end of your party soon.

Not really. The fact that some T/Cs have woken up after all these years just confirms what we have been saying all along.

Meanwhile, as some commentators have argued, Turkey's nationalistic belligerence risks undermining its own best interests - which depends on EU accession. No matter what Erdogan or Bagis say. Turkey needs a solution more than they care to admit. The sticking point is that Turkey wants a solution on its terms - the Annan Plan in other words. Which ignores the reality of the ROC's EU accession. That's where we are today. Turkey wants to turn the clock back to 2004 only this time for the G/Cs to say yes. But that moment has gone and Turkey hasn't come to terms with it yet.

You can add VP to the "living in denial" crowd also.

There are many people here 'living in denial',Kikapu...Other are living with a burning desire for revengeand retribution for real and imaginery crimes in the past...
And some are living in a perpetual cloud of selfsatisfied arrogance and wishful thinking...

The sad conclusion I have come to is that Cypriots are not ready to join the ranks of humanity...They remain tribal animals still functioning on primitive instincts...They have no chance in the world of ever determining their own destiny..They will fight till one side can no longer stand on its feet,and then when they fell they will be kicked to kingdom come...Lets hope that day comes sooner rather than later...Even animals need to be put out of their misery... :(

Come on my friend , Bir. Have more faith in Cypriots to do the right thing amongst themselves than what they have not been allowed to do by outsiders. We do not have a recorded time where Cypriots have been their own masters of their own island, but it does not mean it cannot happen. No one can deny that a lot has happened in the past that would seem that there can never be trust and respect be given to the other side from each side, but history shows us that that is not so. People can change their views if they are treated fair and as equals, and thanks to Cyprus being in the EU, the EU can act as a great catalyst to see that ALL Cypriots are treated fairly and as equals. We have seen what inequality and hatred has done to Cypriots and before we all go to point of no return, it is time for all Cypriots to accept Democracy, Human rights, International Law and the EU Principles. It can only make thing better than what we have had in the past and what we have now. What do we have to lose by trying out Democracy for Cyprus. We have tried out everything else it seems, but to no avail, and if the rest of the west can live with Democracy with all their multi ethnic societies, there is no reason why Cyprus cannot also.

Kikapu.I'd be delighted if the TCs would give democracy a try,and you know that...The point is,they will not do that,after all that happened,and given that the GCs have refused to accept that they have done anything wrong in the past,and blame everything on the TCs...

The GCs didnt give a damn about our feelings back in the 50s and they don't give a damn now..So given the present situation there is no way the GCs will ever get their maximalist demand of a unitary state,full democracy,international law,EU principles etc...The GCs know that and that is why they are refusing to accept anything else...They think they hve the TCs where they want them,and they think they will wait till Turkey has had enough,and decides to leave the TCs on their own,at the mercy of the GCs...That will NEVER happen...So tribalism will go on,and the primitive instincts of revenge,hatred,retribution will win out...There will be war,and one side will be wiped out...You obviously believe that would be the TCs...I am not so sure...

[BirKibrisli]

Birturk forgets a lot of tcs cross over daily for employment in government and private industry...how come if there is hate and animosity these tcs get employed?...birturk is part of the problem...he is a TMT yesterday's dinosaur....

Yeah,these people who cross over for work...why do they go back at the end of the day??? Why don't they just move their house to the South,and send their kids to GC schools??? The problem ,my friend,is people who think like you do,and only see what they want to see...Ignore what doesn't suit them,and naively believe all will be well if you wait long enough...There will never be a solution this way,and things will eventually come to a head,and the next war will make all the previous ones like a picnic in the park....You have been warned...

[ZoC]

Birturk forgets a lot of tcs cross over daily for employment in government and private industry...how come if there is hate and animosity these tcs get employed?...birturk is part of the problem...he is a TMT yesterday's dinosaur....

Yeah,these people who cross over for work...why do they go back at the end of the day??? Why don't they just move their house to the South,and send their kids to GC schools??? The problem ,my friend,is people who think like you do,and only see what they want to see...Ignore what doesn't suit them,and naively believe all will be well if you wait long enough...There will never be a solution this way,and things will eventually come to a head,and the next war will make all the previous ones like a picnic in the park....You have been warned...

if.

[Get Real!]

Yeah,these people who cross over for work...why do they go back at the end of the day??? Why don't they just move their house to the South,

Rebellious house foundations?

[Hermes]

There is no way the GCs will ever get their maximalist demand of a unitary state,full democracy,international law,EU principles etc...The GCs know that and that is why they are refusing to accept anything else...

Are you serious? A "unitary state, democracy, international law, EU principles etc" is our minimum demand. Why do you think we would accept any less than any one of these? Why on earth are T/Cs demanding something less than unity, democracy, international law etc? With stupid and profoundly reactionary views like this is it any wonder there is a stalemate in the current talks?