Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Egypt is not the same case at all. What you are talking about is a war, not struggle for decolonization. The equaivalent would be if Cyprus had a population of 60 million people and an army of proportional size to this population, and we military took back the British bases. That would be a totally different thing.

So I repeat: It would be not difficult at all for the British to divide the population based on religious and linguistic differences, even if independence was the aim. They would simply offer to the TCs gains on the expense of the majority of the population, and the TCs would gladly accept these gains and side with the colonialists. And in that case the result would be even worst for us, since not only there would be division anyway, but the balance of power will worst for us since we wouldn't have Greece on our side.

Could some other minority in some other country act in a different way? Maybe. But this is the TCs we are talking about. The people who are always happy to accept privileges and gains on the expense of the rest of the population.

Egypt didn't take Suez back through military means. Don't forget that Egypt was actually more like defeated on the military field during Suez War. If there was a significant portion of population around the Suez Canal supporting its control by the Brits, things might be different today.

As I said many times, Brits would certainly try to divide the Cypriot population, the one way or another. But instead of accepting the division in the way they wanted, we could at least try to fight against it. I believe there were good chances for winning big parts of TCs for the goal of an independence, provided that their participation in power in the new state would be secured. TCs are normal people and no different than them.

The way is simple: The British would offer to TCs more than we could possibly offer. It would be very easy for the UK and Turkey to offer to the TCs as much gains on our expense as they wanted. On the other hand there was a limit on how much we could offer to the TCs in order to keep them in our side.

Lets put it this way: We are both biding for an item, and you are biding for it with your own money, while I am bidding for it with money taken from you by force. Who is going to win the bid?

Similarly an even bigger part of the Greek community in Asia Minor fled before the population exchange.

What didn't happen to the Turks that remained in Greece is that they didn't become "casualties" and all the other exaggerations that TCs use to excuse their crimes in Cyprus. Compared to how Turkey treated the Greeks under her control (in Turkey and north Cyprus) the Turks in Greece were in a far far better position, and they would have been in an even better one if Turkey was not so aggressive against the Greek populations (Greece did not respond in kind to the Turkish aggression).

Also, the TCs in Cyprus today are less than what they were in 1960 or 1974. If Cyprus was united with Greece without any conflict between GCs and TCs, then not only TCs would not become "casualties" but on the contrary their population would be more than what it is today.

How does the treatment of Greeks in Turkey make the bad treatment of Muslims in Greece any better? Even if we assumed that the greek state oppressed its Muslim population just for the sake of taking revenge (and it's not like that, there are much more serious reasons than this), doesn't this mean that something like that could happen to TCs as well in case of Enosis? That they would have to suffer from oppression, whenever Turkey oppressed its greek population, something which wouldn't depend on them and on which they could have no influence? How do you expect the TCs accepting that?

There is no any "oppression" of the Greek state against the Muslims. Any possible restrictions are because they saw how Turkey uses her minorities to expand itself, and they didn't want to allow this to happen in Greece as well.

Don't blame Greece because it tries to protect itself from the expansionism and aggression of Turkey.

[DTA]

One example, not allowed to call themselves Turkish?

[Piratis]

One example, not allowed to call themselves Turkish?

They are called Muslim which is what was agreed between Greece and Turkey with the 1923 treaty (because not all of them are Turkish).

Turkey has grossly violated that Treaty and Greeks in Turkey have almost been eliminated since then, and you expect from Greece to give even more than what the treaty required?

Also please note that what Bir claimed was that 120.000 TCs would become casualties in case Cyprus united with Greece. What I pointed out is that this was a gross exaggeration. Sure, maybe there would be a few problems but those problems would not be anything even remotely close to such gross exaggerations and any problems would also be less than the problems created to all Cypriots, including the TCs, as a result of TCs choosing conflict instead of respecting the democratic wishes of the majority of the population.

Furthermore, if Turkey didn't have have such an expansionist and aggressive policy against the Greeks, then Greece and Turkey would be on friendly terms by the 50s and especially by now, and the Greek population in Turkey and the Turkish population in Greece wouldn't have any problem whatsoever.

[alexISS]

One example, not allowed to call themselves Turkish?

http://www.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Poli ... THRACE.htm

The Lausanne Treaty provides for a Muslim minority in Greece. Its members are free to declare their ethnic origin (Turkish, Pomak or Roma), speak their languages, exercise their religion and observe their particular customs and traditions.

What is not acceptable to the Greek state is the attempts to establish a single ethnic identity for the entire Muslim minority in Thrace to subsume Pomak and Roma persons under a Turkish identity.

Any questions?

[DTA]

Yeah sure, the pomAks in particular but the Roma as identify themselves as Turks, for example they choose to speak Turkish they choose to br educated in Turkish etc, who the he'll has the right to say they are not Turkish?

Also for more Greek hypocrasy and to see what pirates means by the Muslim minority of greec florishing in that part of the worl

Turks and Pomaks have not been adequately compensated for land expropriated from them for public use. Elected Turkish minority community boards, established by government decree in 1920, were abolished under the dictatorship and have never been reinstituted. ‘Muslim-origin Greek citizens' were deprived of citizenship under Article 19 of the Greek Nationality Law.

Community polarization in Western Thrace increased in the late twentieth century. In 1989 Dr Sadik Ahmet won a seat in parliament as an independent Turkish candidate. In 1990 he was found guilty of provoking discord by claiming the existence of a Turkish minority in Greece. In the 1993 elections the Greek Parliament introduced a 3 per cent nationwide threshold to eliminate the possibility of such candidates winning seats; Ahmet was consequently not re-elected. (He died in a car accident in July 1995.)

Since then the situation has ameliorated. The Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) government, ousted in the March 2004 elections, affirmed an individual right of self-identification, but some individuals who defined themselves as members of a ‘minority' found it difficult to express their identity freely and maintain their culture. The prohibition of the adjective ‘Turkish' in association names continues to be enforced, although individuals legally may call themselves Turks. To most Greeks the terms connote Turkish identity or loyalties, and many objected to their use by Greek citizens of Turkish origin.

[DT.]

Yeah sure, the pomAks in particular but the Roma as identify themselves as Turks, for example they choose to speak Turkish they choose to br educated in Turkish etc, who the he'll has the right to say they are not Turkish?

Also for more Greek hypocrasy and to see what pirates means by the Muslim minority of greec florishing in that part of the worl

Turks and Pomaks have not been adequately compensated for land expropriated from them for public use. Elected Turkish minority community boards, established by government decree in 1920, were abolished under the dictatorship and have never been reinstituted. ‘Muslim-origin Greek citizens' were deprived of citizenship under Article 19 of the Greek Nationality Law.

Community polarization in Western Thrace increased in the late twentieth century. In 1989 Dr Sadik Ahmet won a seat in parliament as an independent Turkish candidate. In 1990 he was found guilty of provoking discord by claiming the existence of a Turkish minority in Greece. In the 1993 elections the Greek Parliament introduced a 3 per cent nationwide threshold to eliminate the possibility of such candidates winning seats; Ahmet was consequently not re-elected. (He died in a car accident in July 1995.)

Since then the situation has ameliorated. The Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) government, ousted in the March 2004 elections, affirmed an individual right of self-identification, but some individuals who defined themselves as members of a ‘minority' found it difficult to express their identity freely and maintain their culture. The prohibition of the adjective ‘Turkish' in association names continues to be enforced, although individuals legally may call themselves Turks. To most Greeks the terms connote Turkish identity or loyalties, and many objected to their use by Greek citizens of Turkish origin.

why not quote the next lines of the article you found?

Current issues

Turks and Pomaks are represented in the Greek Parliament by New Democracy member Ahmet S. Ilhan. According to the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs during the latest local elections (2002), approximately 250 Muslim municipal and prefectural councillors and mayors were elected, and the Vice-Prefect of Rhodope is also a Muslim

The nomination of lawyer Gulbeyaz Karahasan, a member of Western Thrace Turkish minority, by PASOK as a candidate for the chairmanship of Xanthi-Kavala-Drama Extended Prefecture at the elections in October 2006, caused hostility from conservatives and the Orthodox Church.

Any idea how many Greeks are represented in the Turkish parliament?

[alexISS]

One example, not allowed to call themselves Turkish?

Was that proven false or not? Answer this and then I will reply to your last post

[Get Real!]

The Slavic gypsies should stop pretending that they are lenient and understanding towards Turks and other foreigners living in their country because they are NOT!

[alexISS]

The Slavic gypsies should stop pretending that they are lenient and understanding towards Turks and other foreigners living in their country because they are NOT!

You're not the first southern Greek to call northern Greeks Slavs. Next time try to remember, It's not they who are too light, it's you who are too dark!

[Paphitis]

One example, not allowed to call themselves Turkish?

Was that proven false or not? Answer this and then I will reply to your last post

Well and truly proven false!