Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

Is this your attempt of "divide and rule"?

I have no problem at all with Cypriots defining themselves in any way they want. What I have a problem with is with foreigners telling us what we are and where we should belong.

If you and the Imperialists had agreed from the 50s that the Cypriot people should be free to decide what they want in a peaceful and democratic way, then Cyprus would be truly decolonized and there would be no conflicts and casualties.

Unfortunately the Imperialists didn't want to let Cyprus free, and you helped them to continue oppressing our freedoms and our rights.

Cut the crap,Piratis...There was nothing peaceful and democratic about the way you went about decolonisation...And if you had managed to bring Enosis about there would've been 120,000 casualties,and enough conflicts to last you a lifetime...

You cut the crap Bir. An armed struggle was our last resort after being denied for many decades the right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of our own island.

And your theory about "120,000 casualties" in case of enosis is totally baseless. After the population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey, the Muslim/Turkish population of Greece not only did not become casualties, but on the contrary their number increased (unlike the Greeks in Turkey who have since then been reduce to a tiny number)

GCs and TCs lived peacefully with each other until you turned against us in the 50s. If you did not turn against us, and you respected the democratic choices of the Cypriot people, then we would continue to live in peace together, there would be no conflict, no casualties, and there would be far more TCs in Cyprus than they are today.

I like the way you use the word "Cypriot",Piratis...As in 'the democratic choices of the Cypriot people...' You are totally excluding the Turkish Cypriots...What about the democratic rights of the TCs??? Did they have a say in their own future??? Lets see how democratic you are now..Will you acknowledge their right to decide their own future???

Each TCs would have as much say as each GC. This is what democracy means, one person one vote.

Majority Rules is one of the fundamental principles of a democracy. Democracy does not mean that every person or group of people can do whatever they feel like, thats anarchy, no democracy. Each person can have his/her human rights, each minority group can have certain minority rights, but for everything beyond that everybody is obligated to respect the choices as taken by the majority. This is what democracy is all about.

Is Turkey asking from the Greek or Kurdish minorities for their own separate approval in order for a decision to be taken? If that is how Turks realize "Democracy", then why don't they apply such kind of "democracy" in their own country?

So stop hiding and come out and say it clearly that you reject democracy for Cyprus, because you don't want Cyprus to be ruled democratically (i.e. majority not to rule).

Everything fits in nicely in your twisted little world,doesnt it, Piratis?

We are talking about the 40s and 50s in Cyprus,a country where the 'natives' never ruled,let alone ruled with democracy...we are talking about 2 distinct communities who could barely stand each other...Sure as your little theory states there were isolated parts were there was peace and harmony between the GCs and TCs,but mostly you had a situation where the 2 sides were deeply suspicious of each other,and there were often open acts of hostility and conflicts...If you were a TC back those days would you put your trust and faith in a strange sytem called democracy which meant submitting to the will of a hostile majority????I would think not...So cut out all this democracy bullshit..Times and conditions were very different in those hot days full of ethnic and religious conflicts and intolerances...I keep telling you what you need to do IF you want the TCs to return to the fold...Accept and acknowlegde your mistakes,repent,and give watertight guarantees that you can be trusted not to abuse your majority power...Then we might talk democracy...

Good that you finally admit that what you really reject is democracy as it doesn't suit you.

Before the TC minority was turned against the majority in the 1950s, there were no major problems between TCs and GCs in Cyprus. And if there were a few problems, those stemmed from the time of Ottoman rule that ended a few decades earlier.

Do you really expect from us to sacrifice our democratic rights indefinitely until you decide that it is OK for you to trust the majority, something which will never happen since an undemocratic system will offer to you gains on our expense which you will obviously never want to voluntarily give up?

You are the one who should apologize and repent for denying to us our human and democratic rights, not to expect an apology from us because we wanted freedom and democracy!!

To live in a harmonious democracy people need to be a little bit open minded,have some capacity for empathy,understanding,tolerance,and compassion...You are living proof that GCs are not ready for a democracy which will embrace the TCs on equal footing...And you were certainly not ready in the 50s...That is why you went for Enosis with Greece instead,I suppose...

In the free part of Cyprus we have a democracy which is 100 times better than what they have in Turkey and most other Muslim countries. The problem is not with us, since we can live peacefully in a democratic state along with all other Cypriot minorities. The problem is with you, because you show no kind of respect to our human and democratic rights.

We show as much respect for your human and democratic rights as you did for ours back in the heady days of 63-74???? You can live peacefully with all the other minorities as long as they do not question your divine right to rule over them...

[DTA]

The Cretan Turkish 35% minority in Crete that is, who today are 0% they were killed in mass, forced in to enclaves attacked on an almost nightly basis. There was a plan for their extermination as well.
Do you think the eoka bastards who ATtacked tcs learned lessons from them? Crete is the template of what would have happened to the tcs if we didn't fight back- but we did and we are still here unlike (unfortunately) the Cretan Turkish population. But you fascist don't like that do you?

[Piratis]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

Is this your attempt of "divide and rule"?

I have no problem at all with Cypriots defining themselves in any way they want. What I have a problem with is with foreigners telling us what we are and where we should belong.

If you and the Imperialists had agreed from the 50s that the Cypriot people should be free to decide what they want in a peaceful and democratic way, then Cyprus would be truly decolonized and there would be no conflicts and casualties.

Unfortunately the Imperialists didn't want to let Cyprus free, and you helped them to continue oppressing our freedoms and our rights.

Cut the crap,Piratis...There was nothing peaceful and democratic about the way you went about decolonisation...And if you had managed to bring Enosis about there would've been 120,000 casualties,and enough conflicts to last you a lifetime...

You cut the crap Bir. An armed struggle was our last resort after being denied for many decades the right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of our own island.

And your theory about "120,000 casualties" in case of enosis is totally baseless. After the population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey, the Muslim/Turkish population of Greece not only did not become casualties, but on the contrary their number increased (unlike the Greeks in Turkey who have since then been reduce to a tiny number)

GCs and TCs lived peacefully with each other until you turned against us in the 50s. If you did not turn against us, and you respected the democratic choices of the Cypriot people, then we would continue to live in peace together, there would be no conflict, no casualties, and there would be far more TCs in Cyprus than they are today.

I like the way you use the word "Cypriot",Piratis...As in 'the democratic choices of the Cypriot people...' You are totally excluding the Turkish Cypriots...What about the democratic rights of the TCs??? Did they have a say in their own future??? Lets see how democratic you are now..Will you acknowledge their right to decide their own future???

Each TCs would have as much say as each GC. This is what democracy means, one person one vote.

Majority Rules is one of the fundamental principles of a democracy. Democracy does not mean that every person or group of people can do whatever they feel like, thats anarchy, no democracy. Each person can have his/her human rights, each minority group can have certain minority rights, but for everything beyond that everybody is obligated to respect the choices as taken by the majority. This is what democracy is all about.

Is Turkey asking from the Greek or Kurdish minorities for their own separate approval in order for a decision to be taken? If that is how Turks realize "Democracy", then why don't they apply such kind of "democracy" in their own country?

So stop hiding and come out and say it clearly that you reject democracy for Cyprus, because you don't want Cyprus to be ruled democratically (i.e. majority not to rule).

Everything fits in nicely in your twisted little world,doesnt it, Piratis?

We are talking about the 40s and 50s in Cyprus,a country where the 'natives' never ruled,let alone ruled with democracy...we are talking about 2 distinct communities who could barely stand each other...Sure as your little theory states there were isolated parts were there was peace and harmony between the GCs and TCs,but mostly you had a situation where the 2 sides were deeply suspicious of each other,and there were often open acts of hostility and conflicts...If you were a TC back those days would you put your trust and faith in a strange sytem called democracy which meant submitting to the will of a hostile majority????I would think not...So cut out all this democracy bullshit..Times and conditions were very different in those hot days full of ethnic and religious conflicts and intolerances...I keep telling you what you need to do IF you want the TCs to return to the fold...Accept and acknowlegde your mistakes,repent,and give watertight guarantees that you can be trusted not to abuse your majority power...Then we might talk democracy...

Good that you finally admit that what you really reject is democracy as it doesn't suit you.

Before the TC minority was turned against the majority in the 1950s, there were no major problems between TCs and GCs in Cyprus. And if there were a few problems, those stemmed from the time of Ottoman rule that ended a few decades earlier.

Do you really expect from us to sacrifice our democratic rights indefinitely until you decide that it is OK for you to trust the majority, something which will never happen since an undemocratic system will offer to you gains on our expense which you will obviously never want to voluntarily give up?

You are the one who should apologize and repent for denying to us our human and democratic rights, not to expect an apology from us because we wanted freedom and democracy!!

To live in a harmonious democracy people need to be a little bit open minded,have some capacity for empathy,understanding,tolerance,and compassion...You are living proof that GCs are not ready for a democracy which will embrace the TCs on equal footing...And you were certainly not ready in the 50s...That is why you went for Enosis with Greece instead,I suppose...

In the free part of Cyprus we have a democracy which is 100 times better than what they have in Turkey and most other Muslim countries. The problem is not with us, since we can live peacefully in a democratic state along with all other Cypriot minorities. The problem is with you, because you show no kind of respect to our human and democratic rights.

We show as much respect for your human and democratic rights as you did for ours back in the heady days of 63-74???? You can live peacefully with all the other minorities as long as they do not question your divine right to rule over them...

Majority Rule is one of the fundamental principles of democracies, along with minority rights. All other minorities in Cyprus respect majority rule, and the majority respects their minority rights. This is what happens in ALL democratic countries. Why should any ethnic minority dispute the democratic principle of majority rule? This would lead to problems and conflicts if it happened in any country.

Or you think that if the Greek minority in Turkey demanded that anything that happens in Turkey it needs to first be approved by the Greek minority, that the Turks would say "Sure, no problem"

[denizaksulu]

Piratis; You began your post with this;

'Similarly an even bigger part of the Greek community in Asia Minor fled before the population exchange.' So We were discussing the sdame period. Period.'
Stop squirming.

I admit any errors. You could do the same; or do you consider yourself 'super-human' thus error free.

I was responding to DTA who was asking about the Turkish minority in Crete. Stop trying to blame me when it is you guys who were trying to change the subject!

I responded to the post beginning with the above quote posted by you. Are you now denying that you posted it? Do you have a cat who uses your computer then? It surely has more intelligence.........................

oh I give up on this one. Indefatigable.

[Piratis]

The Cretan Turkish 35% minority in Crete that is, who today are 0% they were killed in mass, forced in to enclaves attacked on an almost nightly basis. There was a plan for their extermination as well.
Do you think the eoka bastards who ATtacked tcs learned lessons from them? Crete is the template of what would have happened to the tcs if we didn't fight back- but we did and we are still here unlike (unfortunately) the Cretan Turkish population. But you fascist don't like that do you?

It is the TCs who collaborated with the Colonialists and attacked EOKA and the GCs. You are the ones who started the conflict and demanded our extermination from half of our island since the 50s. We only responded to your aggression, and this is a historical fact.

What happened to the Turks in Crete is what happened to far more Greeks in Asia Minor. Don't try to play the innocent victim when the Turks are the ones responsible for genocides of millions.

[Piratis]

Piratis; You began your post with this;

'Similarly an even bigger part of the Greek community in Asia Minor fled before the population exchange.' So We were discussing the sdame period. Period.'
Stop squirming.

I admit any errors. You could do the same; or do you consider yourself 'super-human' thus error free.

I was responding to DTA who was asking about the Turkish minority in Crete. Stop trying to blame me when it is you guys who were trying to change the subject!

I responded to the post beginning with the above quote posted by you. Are you now denying that you posted it? Do you have a cat who uses your computer then? It surely has more intelligence.........................

oh I give up on this one. Indefatigable.

I was replying to DTA just like I replied to him in my previous post. I think it is obvious, so stop arguing about this.

[DTA]

The Cretan Turkish 35% minority in Crete that is, who today are 0% they were killed in mass, forced in to enclaves attacked on an almost nightly basis. There was a plan for their extermination as well.
Do you think the eoka bastards who ATtacked tcs learned lessons from them? Crete is the template of what would have happened to the tcs if we didn't fight back- but we did and we are still here unlike (unfortunately) the Cretan Turkish population. But you fascist don't like that do you?

It is the TCs who collaborated with the Colonialists and attacked EOKA and the GCs. You are the ones who started the conflict and demanded our extermination from half of our island since the 50s. We only responded to your aggression, and this is a historical fact.

What happened to the Turks in Crete is what happened to far more Greeks in Asia Minor. Don't try to play the innocent victim when the Turks are the ones responsible for genocides of millions.

same old lines from you, Where are the Cretan Turks?

[Piratis]

The Cretan Turkish 35% minority in Crete that is, who today are 0% they were killed in mass, forced in to enclaves attacked on an almost nightly basis. There was a plan for their extermination as well.
Do you think the eoka bastards who ATtacked tcs learned lessons from them? Crete is the template of what would have happened to the tcs if we didn't fight back- but we did and we are still here unlike (unfortunately) the Cretan Turkish population. But you fascist don't like that do you?

It is the TCs who collaborated with the Colonialists and attacked EOKA and the GCs. You are the ones who started the conflict and demanded our extermination from half of our island since the 50s. We only responded to your aggression, and this is a historical fact.

What happened to the Turks in Crete is what happened to far more Greeks in Asia Minor. Don't try to play the innocent victim when the Turks are the ones responsible for genocides of millions.

same old lines from you, Where are the Cretan Turks?

You ask the same question, you get the same answer. You think the truth will change if you keep asking?

[boulio]

same old lines from you, Where are the Cretan Turks?

in turkey and many in lebanon anything else you would like to know.

[DTA]

Not in Crete then? And those are the ones that survived