Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

Nothing much will happen tomorrow, just hot air on the TCs part. Turkey has already sent in her men to sort out the parasites complaining. I think they will all be pussys tomorrow.

it's not in dta's blood to surrender...

DTA = Denktash Turkish Arsehole is sat safely in the UK, pretending he doesn't know whats going on.

[quattro]

Nothing much will happen tomorrow, just hot air on the TCs part. Turkey has already sent in her men to sort out the parasites complaining. I think they will all be pussys tomorrow.

it's not in dta's blood to surrender...

DTA = Denktash Turkish Arsehole is sat safely in the UK, pretending he doesn't know whats going on.

always with a good word in your mouth.

[denizaksulu]

Nothing much will happen tomorrow, just hot air on the TCs part. Turkey has already sent in her men to sort out the parasites complaining. I think they will all be pussys tomorrow.

Eitherway who gives a shit anyway, really!

You do as you post on the subject. I think it is a matter of concern to all of us.

[DTA]

Nothing much will happen tomorrow, just hot air on the TCs part. Turkey has already sent in her men to sort out the parasites complaining. I think they will all be pussys tomorrow.

it's not in dta's blood to surrender...

DTA = Denktash Turkish Arsehole is sat safely in the UK, pretending he doesn't know whats going on.

B25= Bums 25boys

I am in the Uk but I like to keep abreast of the situation where as you do not want anything to do with breast do you, you big gay tart you.

Ps no offense to gay people - just big gay tarts like B25

[BirKibrisli]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

Is this your attempt of "divide and rule"?

I have no problem at all with Cypriots defining themselves in any way they want. What I have a problem with is with foreigners telling us what we are and where we should belong.

If you and the Imperialists had agreed from the 50s that the Cypriot people should be free to decide what they want in a peaceful and democratic way, then Cyprus would be truly decolonized and there would be no conflicts and casualties.

Unfortunately the Imperialists didn't want to let Cyprus free, and you helped them to continue oppressing our freedoms and our rights.

Cut the crap,Piratis...There was nothing peaceful and democratic about the way you went about decolonisation...And if you had managed to bring Enosis about there would've been 120,000 casualties,and enough conflicts to last you a lifetime...

You cut the crap Bir. An armed struggle was our last resort after being denied for many decades the right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of our own island.

And your theory about "120,000 casualties" in case of enosis is totally baseless. After the population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey, the Muslim/Turkish population of Greece not only did not become casualties, but on the contrary their number increased (unlike the Greeks in Turkey who have since then been reduce to a tiny number)

GCs and TCs lived peacefully with each other until you turned against us in the 50s. If you did not turn against us, and you respected the democratic choices of the Cypriot people, then we would continue to live in peace together, there would be no conflict, no casualties, and there would be far more TCs in Cyprus than they are today.

I like the way you use the word "Cypriot",Piratis...As in 'the democratic choices of the Cypriot people...' You are totally excluding the Turkish Cypriots...What about the democratic rights of the TCs??? Did they have a say in their own future??? Lets see how democratic you are now..Will you acknowledge their right to decide their own future???

[BirKibrisli]

so I was right then, RUM = roman, not greek.

You are wrong...Turks and TCs use the word Rum to mean Greek Cypriots...I don't care what your dictionary say about the literal meaning of Rum...Turks and TCs use it exclusively to mean GCs...

Even a simpleton like you must be familiar with the term "Rum yonetimi" ,always meaning 'Greek Cypriots administration'...

i'd lay off the rums for a few nights, birkturk... u can't handle it the way used too.

All right...Turks use it for Greeks living in Turkey as well...happy now?
I will defer to Afroasiatic for the hsitorical roots of the word...Deniz has a good handle on it as well...I have forgotten it already,what was the big deal?????

[Piratis]

The Egyptians are 60 million people, not half a million like us. And there were no major differences in the population to divide them. If there were, then they would have tried it so they could keep Suez.

You say that to create a single nationalism was "very difficult". I say that given the linguistic/religious differences, history and incentives given to TCs to stay separate it would be impossible.

You should also consider that if we had tried it that way, then we wouldn't have Greece on our side, the balance of power would be even worst for us, and the result could be even worst. Don't forget that both Greece and Turkey were NATO members, and the AngloAmericans were trying to serve their own interests without dissatisfying any side too much. If there was no risk of alienating Greece from NATO, then the Imperialists could have been even more harsh with us and the result an even worst one.

I don't think that the population is such an important criterion for gaining independence. Many small countries have managed to gain their independence, under difficult conditions.

And there are sure big differences among Egyptian population. How about the difference between Muslims and Christians? Between Beduins and the farmers of the Nil-Valley? The Arabs and the Nubians? The various regional and tribal antagonisms?
If you think of it, the religious/linguistic differences in Cyprus weren't greater than in an average British colony, probably less. History is an important factor if you want it to be, to the biggest part. And incentives could be (and were) given by the colonialists in groups of the populations in various colonies.

What makes the case of Cyprus different aren't these factors, but the massive involvement of two competing foreign nationalisms.

The involvement of greek nationalism made the involvement of turkish nationalism unavoidable. And the NATO-allies wanted to keep the balance between Turkey and Greece. As long as Greece would have control in Cyprus, Turkey should have some control too to counter it. That was the logic of all solution plans supported by NATO countries.

If there was no interest from Greece, and an all-Cypriot national movement instead, Turkey would have less motivation and it would find less local allies for intervening in Cyprus.

And let's not forget that Greece's negative influence isn't restricted in the period of junta. Don't forget that Zurich-London agreements came with greek involvement, ignoring both GCs and TCs, don't forget G. Papandreou's positive atttitude to Acheson-Plan, i.e. practically partition, and even the thoughts of overthrowing Makarios, Karamanlis' "Cyprus is far away" etc. All this by "democratic" greek governments. And perhaps most important of all, the infection of GCs with greek nationalism, which made the living together with TCs very problematic.

What you forget is that Egypt was not a colony at that time. What you are talking about in Suez is a war between countries, not a struggle for freedom from colonialism.

A relevant example would be the one of India, with Hindu and Muslims, who were divided without any need for "motherlands".

The motives of both Turkey and UK in Cyprus have nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people of the island. What they want is to serve their own geo strategic interests and this is not something that would have changed if we changed our identity. The only thing we would have managed by changing our identity would be to make the balance of power even worst for our side, and the result would have been an even worst one.

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

If you want to accept the excuses that the foreign invaders give thats your problem. I don't accept their lame excuses because I know the history of my island and I know that their lame excuses keep changing, and what remains the same is the real reason the problem exists: The determination of these foreigners to maintain control over Cyprus without any regard to what the Cypriot people want for their own island.

Egypt had been under british control before (if you would call her a colony or not is an insignificant detail) and the British control over Suez was a remnant of that times. From a historical point of view, it's very much a part of the fight against colonialism.

As I said, the British and other colonial powers tried to use divisions among the peoples they dominated wherever they were. Somewhere they were successful, somewhere not so much. But at least some countries tried to resist this. To take the example of India, a big part of the country may have been lost, but, as Deniz already mentioned, in the remainder people feel Indians no matter if Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Christians.

The motives of UK in Cyprus had nothing to do with ethnicity and identity. Its power to intervene however did.

Perhaps even the motives of Turkey in Cyprus didn't have that much to do with ethnicity, but they had a lot to do with the involvement of Greece and the balance of power between them. And something similar goes with the motives of USA, who were very interested in that balance.

What for sure had to do with ethnicity and identity, is Turkey's power to intervene. Do you think this would be the same if it had to face a united Cypriot people all ready to fight against her, GCs and TCs?

The question is not if we accept the lame excuses, our acceptance or not, after all facts are already there, doesn't weigh much. The important thing is to not let them to be used in the first place.

Egypt is not the same case at all. What you are talking about is a war, not struggle for decolonization. The equaivalent would be if Cyprus had a population of 60 million people and an army of proportional size to this population, and we military took back the British bases. That would be a totally different thing.

So I repeat: It would be not difficult at all for the British to divide the population based on religious and linguistic differences, even if independence was the aim. They would simply offer to the TCs gains on the expense of the majority of the population, and the TCs would gladly accept these gains and side with the colonialists. And in that case the result would be even worst for us, since not only there would be division anyway, but the balance of power will worst for us since we wouldn't have Greece on our side.

Could some other minority in some other country act in a different way? Maybe. But this is the TCs we are talking about. The people who are always happy to accept privileges and gains on the expense of the rest of the population.

That minority was exchanged with far more Greeks from Asia Minor according to the exchange of population agreement. This happened in the 1920s. Since then the Turkish/Muslim population in Greece has increased.

Just as a sidenote, a big part of Cretan Muslims had fled before the population exchange, as early as in the 19th century.

And when you say, that the Turkish/Muslim population increased in Greece since 1920s, you mean in absolute numbers or in percentage? Because as far as I know, the percentage of Muslims in Western Thrace decreased, despite their higher natural growth, also as part of the oppressive measures from the greek state. And I think, the percentage is that counts, isn't it?

Except of course, if we count the recent Mulsim immigrants in Greece - but they are a completely different story.

Similarly an even bigger part of the Greek community in Asia Minor fled before the population exchange.

What didn't happen to the Turks that remained in Greece is that they didn't become "casualties" and all the other exaggerations that TCs use to excuse their crimes in Cyprus. Compared to how Turkey treated the Greeks under her control (in Turkey and north Cyprus) the Turks in Greece were in a far far better position, and they would have been in an even better one if Turkey was not so aggressive against the Greek populations (Greece did not respond in kind to the Turkish aggression).

Also, the TCs in Cyprus today are less than what they were in 1960 or 1974. If Cyprus was united with Greece without any conflict between GCs and TCs, then not only TCs would not become "casualties" but on the contrary their population would be more than what it is today.

[Piratis]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

Is this your attempt of "divide and rule"?

I have no problem at all with Cypriots defining themselves in any way they want. What I have a problem with is with foreigners telling us what we are and where we should belong.

If you and the Imperialists had agreed from the 50s that the Cypriot people should be free to decide what they want in a peaceful and democratic way, then Cyprus would be truly decolonized and there would be no conflicts and casualties.

Unfortunately the Imperialists didn't want to let Cyprus free, and you helped them to continue oppressing our freedoms and our rights.

Cut the crap,Piratis...There was nothing peaceful and democratic about the way you went about decolonisation...And if you had managed to bring Enosis about there would've been 120,000 casualties,and enough conflicts to last you a lifetime...

You cut the crap Bir. An armed struggle was our last resort after being denied for many decades the right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of our own island.

And your theory about "120,000 casualties" in case of enosis is totally baseless. After the population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey, the Muslim/Turkish population of Greece not only did not become casualties, but on the contrary their number increased (unlike the Greeks in Turkey who have since then been reduce to a tiny number)

GCs and TCs lived peacefully with each other until you turned against us in the 50s. If you did not turn against us, and you respected the democratic choices of the Cypriot people, then we would continue to live in peace together, there would be no conflict, no casualties, and there would be far more TCs in Cyprus than they are today.

I like the way you use the word "Cypriot",Piratis...As in 'the democratic choices of the Cypriot people...' You are totally excluding the Turkish Cypriots...What about the democratic rights of the TCs??? Did they have a say in their own future??? Lets see how democratic you are now..Will you acknowledge their right to decide their own future???

Each TCs would have as much say as each GC. This is what democracy means, one person one vote.

Majority Rules is one of the fundamental principles of a democracy. Democracy does not mean that every person or group of people can do whatever they feel like, thats anarchy, no democracy. Each person can have his/her human rights, each minority group can have certain minority rights, but for everything beyond that everybody is obligated to respect the choices as taken by the majority. This is what democracy is all about.

Is Turkey asking from the Greek or Kurdish minorities for their own separate approval in order for a decision to be taken? If that is how Turks realize "Democracy", then why don't they apply such kind of "democracy" in their own country?

So stop hiding and come out and say it clearly that you reject democracy for Cyprus, because you don't want Cyprus to be ruled democratically (i.e. majority not to rule).

[BirKibrisli]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

i think u'll find - if u took the trouble to engage ur brain before pressing 'submit' - that RUM means 'roman'.

Correction:
Eastern Romans which particularly means the Greek speaking Romans = Greeks.

really? so wot's the turkish for latin speaking romans? GRUMS?

All I can say is perhaps those 'barbaric hordes' had not yet come accross the 'Ellens' or Helenic culture. The Arabs had ofcourse done that; as they did translate and preserve lots of the classics for posterity. One needs to find out what the Arabs called them . Certainly not 'Rum'.
I must admit that is an interesting question. I must delve.............

so I was right then, RUM = roman, not greek.

RUM = roman, if you think of the origin of the word, you're right of course.

But this is how greek-speaking Orthodox Christians called themselves (Romioi) for centuries, and it's out of them that the new Greeks were created. And as of course you know, it's still today a synonym for Greek.

I think the link below would put an end to any disagreement..I was partly wrong..Turks called the Greeks living in Turkey Rum as well...But Piratis is very wrong..Turkey does not deny that GCs are Greeks...But you never know Piratis might dispute this website as well...

Δευτέρα, 1 Δεκεμβρίου 2008Οι Ρωμιοί της Συρίας και η Ελληνορθόδοξη Μονή της Παναγίας της Σεντνάγια - The Rum of Syria and the Greek Orthodox Monastery of Saidnaya
Για τους περισσότερους από μας τους Έλληνες, η λέξη Ρωμιοί έχει συνδεθεί με όλους τους ελληνόφωνες Ορθόδοξους Χριστιανούς που ζούσαν κατά το διάστημα της Βυζαντινής Αυτοκρατορίας που ονομαζόταν Ρωμανία και οι κάτοικοι της Ρωμιοί. Το ίδιο όνομα είχαμε όταν ήμασταν κάτω από την οθωμανική κυριαρχία, δεδομένου ότι μας αποκαλούσαν και μας χαρακτήριζαν οι Μουσουλμάνοι Οθωμανοί κατακτητές μας ως "Ρωμιούς". Η λέξη Ρωμιοί για τον Ελληνικό λαό έχει γίνει συνώνυμη με τη λέξη Έλληνες. Όμως, όταν οι Οθωμανοί εφάρμοσαν το όνομα "Ρωμιοί", γι' αυτούς όπως και για τους Βυζαντινούς, η λέξη δεν είχε εθνική έννοια, αλλά θρησκευτική, και γι' αυτό το λόγο περιλαμβάνονται ως Ρωμιοί και όλοι οι λαοί που ανήκαν στην Ελληνική Ορθόδοξη Εκκλησία, ανεξάρτητα από την εθνική τους προέλευση, ή τη μητρική τους γλώσσα. Έτσι, όλα τα άτομα που βρίσκονταν κάτω από την Οθωμανική Αυτοκρατορία και ανήκαν στην Ελληνική Ορθόδοξη Εκκλησία ονομάζονταν Ρωμιοί, και όχι μόνο οι Έλληνες όπως οι περισσότεροι από εμάς ψευδώς πιστεύομε. Γι' αυτό το λόγο, όλα τα άτομα που μιλούν αραβικά και που ανήκουν στην Ελληνορθόδοξη Εκκλησία είναι επίσης Ρωμιοί και αυτοαποκαλούνται ως Ρωμιοί μέχρι και σήμερα.
Η Συρία, πριν από τις επιδρομές των Αράβων και την εξάπλωση του Ισλάμ, ήταν μια Βυζαντινή επαρχία με ένα ελληνοποιημένο ή Ελληνικό και ελληνόφωνο πληθυσμό, που ανήκε στην Ελληνική Βυζαντινή Εκκλησία. Η Δαμασκός ήταν μία από τις σημαντικότερες Ελληνικές Βυζαντινές πόλεις της περιφέρειας και ήταν μια πόλη υψηλού κοσμικού και θρησκευτικού βίου, Ελληνικής παιδείας, και Ελληνικού πολιτισμού. Ο Βυζαντινός Χριστιανισμός άνθισε στη Συρία, και επομένως, δεν αποτελεί έκπληξη το γεγονός ότι πολλοί από τους Αγίους που ανήκουν στην Ορθόδοξη Εκκλησία, είναι παιδιά αυτής της χώρας.
Με τον ερχομό των Αράβων και την εξάπλωση του Ισλάμ, η Συρία όπως και άλλες χώρες της περιοχής, κατακτήθηκε και αποκόπηκε από τη Βυζαντινή Αυτοκρατορία. Ο τοπικός πληθυσμός είτε με τη βία, είτε τη θέλησή του, ασπάστηκε το Ισλάμ και έγινε αραβόφωνος. Αν και σχεδόν όλος ο πληθυσμός της Συρίας υιοθέτησε σταδιακά την αραβική γλώσσα, δεν έγιναν όμως όλοι Μουσουλμάνοι. Αρκετοί παρέμειναν Χριστιανοί και μέλη της Βυζαντινής Ελληνικής Ορθόδοξης Εκκλησίας. Αυτοί οι αραβόφωνοι Ελληνορθόδοξοι Χριστιανοί, ονομάζονταν ως Ρουμ (Ρωμιοί) από τους Μουσουλμάνους Άραβες, χρησιμοποιώντας τον ίδιο όρο που χρησιμοποιούσαν και για τους ελληνόφωνες Βυζαντινούς Έλληνες. Όταν οι Οθωμανοί Τούρκοι κατέκτησαν τη Συρία, κράτησαν τον εν λόγω όρο, και αποκαλούσαν όλους τους Ελληνορθόδοξους Χριστιανούς ως Ρωμιούς ανεξάρτητα από την εθνικότητα τους.
Σήμερα στη Συρία, υπάρχουν πάνω από ένα εκατομμύριο αραβόφωνοι Ελληνορθόδοξοι Χριστιανοί, οι οποίοι εξακολουθούν να είναι γνωστοί ως Ρουμ (Ρωμιοί) και αυτοχαρακτηρίζονται και οι ίδιοι έτσι. Οι Ελληνορθόδοξοι Ρωμιοί στη Συρία διατηρούν ζωντανό το Βυζαντινό Ελληνικό παρελθόν της χώρας, καθώς και την Ορθόδοξη πίστη ανάμεσα σε Μουσουλμάνους. Οι Ελληνορθόδοξες εκκλησίες και Μοναστήρια είναι κατάσπαρτα σε όλη τη χώρα, και η παρουσία τους στη Δαμασκό είναι πολύ εμφανές. Αν και οι αραβόφωνοι Ελληνορθόδοξοι Ρωμιοί της Συρίας κρατούν ζωντανό τον Ελληνικό πολιτισμό, ακόμη και την ελληνική γλώσσα κατά τις ακολουθίες τους στην εκκλησία, εμείς οι Έλληνες ως επί το πλείστον αγνοούμε την ύπαρξη τους, και δεν γνωρίζουμε ότι η Ελληνική Ορθοδοξία όχι μόνο υπάρχει αλλά και ότι είναι πολύ ζωντανή στη χώρα.Όπως και παντού αλλού, οι θεματοφύλακες του ελληνικού πολιτισμού είναι τα Ελληνορθόδοξα Μοναστήρια που βρίσκονται εκεί. Ένα τέτοιο μοναστήρι (γυναικείο) είναι αυτό της Παναγίας της Σεντνάγια, που είναι αφιερωμένο στα γενέθλια της Θεοτόκου- της μητέρα του Θεού. Η ιστορία του είναι η ακόλουθη:


Η ιστορία της εκκλησίας και της Μονής της Παναγίας της Σεντνάγια στη Συρία που χτίστηκε πάνω σε ένα ψηλό βουνό με το ίδιο όνομα, χρονολογείται στο 547 μ.Χ. Λέγεται ότι ο Ιουστινιανός Ι, Αυτοκράτορας του Βυζαντίου, ενώ διέσχιζε από τη Συρία με τις δυνάμεις του είτε για το δρόμο του προς τους Αγίους Τόπους είτε για μια εκστρατεία κατά των Περσών, έφθασε σε αυτή την έρημο, όπου στρατοπέδευσε ο στρατός του και σύντομα υπέστησαν από δίψα αφού υπήρχε έλλειψη νερού. Ενώ απελπίστηκαν, ο αυτοκράτορας είδε μία όμορφη γαζέλα σε μακρινή απόσταση. Την ακολούθησε με σθένος , κυνηγώντας το ζώο μέχρι που αυτό κουράστηκε και σταμάτησε σε ένα βραχώδες ύψωμα και πλησίασε μία πηγή γλυκού νερού, αλλά χωρίς να δώσει στον αυτοκράτορα την ευκαιρία να την σκοτώσει.
Ξαφνικά, μετατράπηκε σε εικόνα της Υπεραγίας Θεοτόκου, που έλαμπε με ένα λαμπρό φως. Ένα λευκό χέρι τεντώθηκε προς το μέρος του και μια φωνή είπε: "Οχι, μην με σκοτώσεις, Ιουστινιανέ, αλλά κτίσε μια εκκλησία στο όνομα μου, εδώ σε αυτό το λόφο."Μετά από αυτά τα λόγια, το παράξενο ουράνιο φως και η υπερφυσική εικόνα εξαφανίστηκαν. Επιστρέφοντας, ο Ιουστινιανός διηγήθηκε αυτό που είχε δει στους υφιστάμενους του και τους διέταξε αμέσως να εκπονήσουν ένα σχέδιο για την υπό ανέγερση εκκλησία. Αφού πέρασε αρκετός καιρός και οι αρχιτέκτονες δεν ήταν σε θέση να επιλύσουν τα προβλήματα του σχεδίου, η Παναγιά - η γαζέλα - επανεμφανίστηκε στον Ιουστινιανό σε ένα όνειρο και του φανέρωσε έναν υπέροχο σχέδιο για ένα Μοναστήρι, του οποίου θα ήταν η προστάτιδα. Λέγεται ότι η βασική δομή του Μοναστηριού ακολουθεί αυτό το σχέδιο μέχρι σήμερα.
Στα τέλη του 8 ου αιώνα, κάποια σεβάσμια με το όνομα Μαρίνα ήταν ηγουμένη του Μοναστηριού, και εκτιμάτο ευρέως για την ευσέβεια που έχει στο Θεό και στους ανθρώπους και για τον άγιο βίο της. Συνέβη ότι ένας μοναχός ερημίτης, ένας Έλληνας προσκυνητής από την Αίγυπτο με όνομα Θεόδωρος, σταμάτησε στο Μοναστήρι στο δρόμο του για στους Αγίους Τόπους. Όταν ήταν να φύγει, η ηγουμένη Μαρίνα του ζήτησε να αγοράσει από την Ιερουσαλήμ μια πολύτιμη και ωραία εικόνα της Παναγίας. Ενώ ήταν στην Ιερουσαλήμ, ξέχασε εντελώς την αποστολή που του έχει ανατεθεί και ξεκίνησε για το ταξίδι επιστροφής. Ωστόσο, καθώς πήγαινε και δεν είχε προχωρήσει πολύ μακριά από την πόλη, τον σταμάτησε μια άγνωστη φωνή: "Μήπως έχεις ξεχάσει κάτι στην Ιερουσαλήμ; Τι έκανες σε σχέση με την αποστολή που σου έθεσε η ηγουμένη Μαρίνα; "Ο Μοναχός Θεόδωρος επέστρεψε αμέσως στην Ιερουσαλήμ και βρήκε μια εικόνα της Θεοτόκου. Κατά το ταξίδι της επιστροφής προς το Μοναστήρι, έμεινε έκπληκτος από τα θαύματα που πραγματοποίησε η εικόνα. Αυτός και όλο του το καραβάνι περικυκλώθηκαν από ληστές και στη συνέχεια έτυχαν επίθεσης από άγρια θηρία. Μέσα σε αυτούς τους κινδύνους, ο ερημίτης ζητούσε πάντα την βοήθεια της Παναγίας, κρατώντας την εικόνα της, και ο ίδιος και όλο το καραβάνι του σώθηκαν από κάθε κίνδυνο. Όταν ο Θεόδωρος επέστρεψε στο Μοναστήρι, αυτά τα γεγονότα τον έβαλαν σε πειρασμό να κρατήσει την πολύτιμη εικόνα για τον εαυτό του, και αποφάσισε να παρακάμψει τη Σεντνάγια και να πλεύσει πίσω στην Αίγυπτο. Ωστόσο, το πλοίο δεν ήταν σε θέση να βάλει πλώρη, γιατί προέκυψε μια σφοδρή καταιγίδα και φαινόταν αναπόφευκτο ότι το πλοίο θα βούλιαζε. Η συνείδηση του τον κέντρισε, και γρήγορα εγκατέλειψε το πλοίο και επέστρεψε πίσω στη Σεντνάγια. Αφού πέρασε τέσσερις μέρες στο Μοναστήρι, τον συνέπαιρνε πάλι μία ακατανίκητη επιθυμία να κάνει την εικόνα της Θεοτόκου δική του. Ζήτησε συγγνώμη από την ηγουμένη, και προσποιείται ότι δεν μπόρεσε να αγοράσει τη απαιτούμενη εικόνα, και στη συνέχεια, αποφάσισε να εγκαταλείψει κρυφά το Μοναστήρι. Το επόμενο πρωί, καθώς ήταν έτοιμος να ξεκινήσει το ταξίδι της επιστροφής στη χώρα του και πλησίασε την πύλη του Μοναστηριού, έμεινε έκπληκτος όταν βρήκε μια αόρατη δύναμη να εμποδίζει τον δρόμο του, και ήταν σαν ένα πέτρινο τοίχος, να είχε σταθεί μπροστά στην πύλη. Μετά από πολλές μάταιες απόπειρες, αναγκάστηκε να δώσει την εικόνα στην ηγουμένη, εξομολογώντας την πρόθεση του. Η ηγουμένη, με δάκρυα ευγνωμοσύνης δόξασε το Θεό και την Παρθένα Μητέρα Του. Από εκείνη την ημέρα, η Αγία εικόνα παρέμεινε στο Μοναστήρι και τυγχάνει μεγάλου σεβασμού.
Μια ενδιαφέρουσα ιστορία που συνέβη όταν ο Σαλαντίν πολεμούσε τους Σταυροφόρους το δωδέκατο αιώνα μ.Χ. Τα πεινασμένα του στρατεύματα εισέβαλαν στο Μοναστήρι της Σεντνάγια και πήραν στην κατοχή τους όλα τα αποθέματα τροφίμων και εφόδια που βρέθηκαν εκεί. Ωστόσο, κατά την φόρτωση των εφοδίων πάνω στη πλάτη των αλόγων και καμήλων, τα άλογα και οι καμήλες αρνήθηκαν να κινηθούν ανεξάρτητα από το πόσο σκληρά προσπάθησε ο Σαλαντίν. Τελικά, αναγκάστηκε να ξεφορτώσει όλα τα αποθέματα τροφίμων και να τα επιστρέψει στους νόμιμους κατόχους προτού να μπορέσει να προχωρήσει.


Σήμερα η Μονή της Παναγίας της Σεντνάγια στη Συρία είναι το δεύτερο πιο σημαντικό Χριστιανικό προσκύνημα στη Μέση Ανατολή μετά την Ιερουσαλήμ, από την άποψη του αριθμού των επισκεπτών. Η αύξηση της σημασίας και της δημοτικότητας του Μοναστηριού οφείλεται στα πλήθος και απεριόριστα θαύματα που συμβαίνουν με τη μεσολάβηση της Θεοτόκου. Η Μονή της Σεντνάγια περιέχει μια εικόνα της Παναγίας με το βρέφος της τον Ιησού ζωγραφισμένη από τον Απόστολο Λουκά τον Ευαγγελιστή τον 1 ο αιώνα μ.Χ. Η εικόνα αυτή ονομάζεται "Σιαγκούρα" που σημαίνει "Η ξακουστή". Η εικόνα αυτή φυλάσσεται σε ένα σκοτεινό δωμάτιο στο πάνω μέρος του Μοναστηριού και πρέπει κάποιος να βγάλει τα παπούτσια του για να εισέλθει. Πολλές γυναίκες, τόσο Χριστιανές όσο και Μουσουλμάνες διανυκτερεύουν σε αυτό το δωμάτιο και όλη νύχτα προσεύχονται στην Παναγία να τους στείλει ένα παιδί.


ΝΟCTOC



For most of us Greeks, the word Romioi (Rum) has come to be associated with all the Greek speaking Orthodox Christian people who lived during the time of the Byzantine Empire which was called Romania and its citizens Romioi. This same name was kept under Ottoman rule since we were called and identified as "Rum" by our Muslim Ottoman Rulers. The word "Romioi" for Greek speaking people has come to be Synonymous with being Greek. However, when the Ottomans applied the name "Rum", it did not have an ethnic meaning but a religious meaning and therefore it included all the peoples who belonged to the Greek Orthodox Church, irrespective of their ethnic background or native language. For this reason, all the people who were under the Ottoman Empire and belonged to the Greek Orthodox Church were called Rum and not just the Greeks as most of us falsely believe. Therefore all the Arabic speaking people who belong to the Greek Orthodox Church are also Rum and call themselves Rum to this day.

http://noctoc-noctoc.blogspot.com/2008/ ... hodox.html

[BirKibrisli]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

Is this your attempt of "divide and rule"?

I have no problem at all with Cypriots defining themselves in any way they want. What I have a problem with is with foreigners telling us what we are and where we should belong.

If you and the Imperialists had agreed from the 50s that the Cypriot people should be free to decide what they want in a peaceful and democratic way, then Cyprus would be truly decolonized and there would be no conflicts and casualties.

Unfortunately the Imperialists didn't want to let Cyprus free, and you helped them to continue oppressing our freedoms and our rights.

Cut the crap,Piratis...There was nothing peaceful and democratic about the way you went about decolonisation...And if you had managed to bring Enosis about there would've been 120,000 casualties,and enough conflicts to last you a lifetime...

You cut the crap Bir. An armed struggle was our last resort after being denied for many decades the right to peacefully and democratically decide the destiny of our own island.

And your theory about "120,000 casualties" in case of enosis is totally baseless. After the population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey, the Muslim/Turkish population of Greece not only did not become casualties, but on the contrary their number increased (unlike the Greeks in Turkey who have since then been reduce to a tiny number)

GCs and TCs lived peacefully with each other until you turned against us in the 50s. If you did not turn against us, and you respected the democratic choices of the Cypriot people, then we would continue to live in peace together, there would be no conflict, no casualties, and there would be far more TCs in Cyprus than they are today.

I like the way you use the word "Cypriot",Piratis...As in 'the democratic choices of the Cypriot people...' You are totally excluding the Turkish Cypriots...What about the democratic rights of the TCs??? Did they have a say in their own future??? Lets see how democratic you are now..Will you acknowledge their right to decide their own future???

Each TCs would have as much say as each GC. This is what democracy means, one person one vote.

Majority Rules is one of the fundamental principles of a democracy. Democracy does not mean that every person or group of people can do whatever they feel like, thats anarchy, no democracy. Each person can have his/her human rights, each minority group can have certain minority rights, but for everything beyond that everybody is obligated to respect the choices as taken by the majority. This is what democracy is all about.

Is Turkey asking from the Greek or Kurdish minorities for their own separate approval in order for a decision to be taken? If that is how Turks realize "Democracy", then why don't they apply such kind of "democracy" in their own country?

So stop hiding and come out and say it clearly that you reject democracy for Cyprus, because you don't want Cyprus to be ruled democratically (i.e. majority not to rule).

Everything fits in nicely in your twisted little world,doesnt it, Piratis?

We are talking about the 40s and 50s in Cyprus,a country where the 'natives' never ruled,let alone ruled with democracy...we are talking about 2 distinct communities who could barely stand each other...Sure as your little theory states there were isolated parts were there was peace and harmony between the GCs and TCs,but mostly you had a situation where the 2 sides were deeply suspicious of each other,and there were often open acts of hostility and conflicts...If you were a TC back those days would you put your trust and faith in a strange sytem called democracy which meant submitting to the will of a hostile majority????I would think not...So cut out all this democracy bullshit..Times and conditions were very different in those hot days full of ethnic and religious conflicts and intolerances...I keep telling you what you need to do IF you want the TCs to return to the fold...Accept and acknowlegde your mistakes,repent,and give watertight guarantees that you can be trusted not to abuse your majority power...Then we might talk democracy...