Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Sorry, I dinn't mean to leave you out, honestly.

[BirKibrisli]

Sorry, I dinn't mean to leave you out, honestly.

[Piratis]

The Egyptians are 60 million people, not half a million like us. And there were no major differences in the population to divide them. If there were, then they would have tried it so they could keep Suez.

You say that to create a single nationalism was "very difficult". I say that given the linguistic/religious differences, history and incentives given to TCs to stay separate it would be impossible.

You should also consider that if we had tried it that way, then we wouldn't have Greece on our side, the balance of power would be even worst for us, and the result could be even worst. Don't forget that both Greece and Turkey were NATO members, and the AngloAmericans were trying to serve their own interests without dissatisfying any side too much. If there was no risk of alienating Greece from NATO, then the Imperialists could have been even more harsh with us and the result an even worst one.

I don't think that the population is such an important criterion for gaining independence. Many small countries have managed to gain their independence, under difficult conditions.

And there are sure big differences among Egyptian population. How about the difference between Muslims and Christians? Between Beduins and the farmers of the Nil-Valley? The Arabs and the Nubians? The various regional and tribal antagonisms?
If you think of it, the religious/linguistic differences in Cyprus weren't greater than in an average British colony, probably less. History is an important factor if you want it to be, to the biggest part. And incentives could be (and were) given by the colonialists in groups of the populations in various colonies.

What makes the case of Cyprus different aren't these factors, but the massive involvement of two competing foreign nationalisms.

The involvement of greek nationalism made the involvement of turkish nationalism unavoidable. And the NATO-allies wanted to keep the balance between Turkey and Greece. As long as Greece would have control in Cyprus, Turkey should have some control too to counter it. That was the logic of all solution plans supported by NATO countries.

If there was no interest from Greece, and an all-Cypriot national movement instead, Turkey would have less motivation and it would find less local allies for intervening in Cyprus.

And let's not forget that Greece's negative influence isn't restricted in the period of junta. Don't forget that Zurich-London agreements came with greek involvement, ignoring both GCs and TCs, don't forget G. Papandreou's positive atttitude to Acheson-Plan, i.e. practically partition, and even the thoughts of overthrowing Makarios, Karamanlis' "Cyprus is far away" etc. All this by "democratic" greek governments. And perhaps most important of all, the infection of GCs with greek nationalism, which made the living together with TCs very problematic.

What you forget is that Egypt was not a colony at that time. What you are talking about in Suez is a war between countries, not a struggle for freedom from colonialism.

A relevant example would be the one of India, with Hindu and Muslims, who were divided without any need for "motherlands".

The motives of both Turkey and UK in Cyprus have nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people of the island. What they want is to serve their own geo strategic interests and this is not something that would have changed if we changed our identity. The only thing we would have managed by changing our identity would be to make the balance of power even worst for our side, and the result would have been an even worst one.

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

If you want to accept the excuses that the foreign invaders give thats your problem. I don't accept their lame excuses because I know the history of my island and I know that their lame excuses keep changing, and what remains the same is the real reason the problem exists: The determination of these foreigners to maintain control over Cyprus without any regard to what the Cypriot people want for their own island.

[BirKibrisli]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

[Piratis]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

Is this your attempt of "divide and rule"?

I have no problem at all with Cypriots defining themselves in any way they want. What I have a problem with is with foreigners telling us what we are and where we should belong.

If you and the Imperialists had agreed from the 50s that the Cypriot people should be free to decide what they want in a peaceful and democratic way, then Cyprus would be truly decolonized and there would be no conflicts and casualties.

Unfortunately the Imperialists didn't want to let Cyprus free, and you helped them to continue oppressing our freedoms and our rights.

[ZoC]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

i think u'll find - if u took the trouble to engage ur brain before pressing 'submit' - that RUM means 'roman'.

[denizaksulu]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

i think u'll find - if u took the trouble to engage ur brain before pressing 'submit' - that RUM means 'roman'.

Correction:
Eastern Romans which particularly means the Greek speaking Romans = Greeks.

[ZoC]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

i think u'll find - if u took the trouble to engage ur brain before pressing 'submit' - that RUM means 'roman'.

Correction:
Eastern Romans which particularly means the Greek speaking Romans = Greeks.

really? so wot's the turkish for latin speaking romans? GRUMS?

[denizaksulu]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

i think u'll find - if u took the trouble to engage ur brain before pressing 'submit' - that RUM means 'roman'.

Correction:
Eastern Romans which particularly means the Greek speaking Romans = Greeks.

really? so wot's the turkish for latin speaking romans? GRUMS?

All I can say is perhaps those 'barbaric hordes' had not yet come accross the 'Ellens' or Helenic culture. The Arabs had ofcourse done that; as they did translate and preserve lots of the classics for posterity. One needs to find out what the Arabs called them . Certainly not 'Rum'.
I must admit that is an interesting question. I must delve.............

[denizaksulu]

Why do you think it is the British and the Turks who claim that the native Cypriots are not Greek? Because isolating Cyprus from the rest of Greeks makes it even easier for them to continue to oppress and abuse our island, just as they did for centuries, before such lame excuses were invented.

The Turks do not claim that the native Cypriots are not Greeks...They always refer to Greek Cypriots as RUMs which,in Turkish, means Greek Cypriot...
It is the native Cypriots themselves,like GR!,who claim they are not Greek...

i think u'll find - if u took the trouble to engage ur brain before pressing 'submit' - that RUM means 'roman'.

Correction:
Eastern Romans which particularly means the Greek speaking Romans = Greeks.

really? so wot's the turkish for latin speaking romans? GRUMS?

All I can say is perhaps those 'barbaric hordes' had not yet come accross the 'Ellens' or Helenic culture. The Arabs had ofcourse done that; as they did translate and preserve lots of the classics for posterity. One needs to find out what the Arabs called them . Certainly not 'Rum'.
I must admit that is an interesting question. I must delve.............

A quick delve in the olde library merely states that Classical Greeks were called 'Yunanlı' and derived from Arabic. We may assume that was the case all those years ago; but I will consult my colleagues(ex-colleagues, now).