Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

....but now we know Turkeys aims towards Cyprus were not 'honorable'. What most TCs believed at the time was that the TA would return after the legal goverment of the RoC was in place again. Ofcourse this did not happen. Turkeys 'secret' plans have become clearer. 'After the fact' matters always become more clearer.

Which is why the excuse that enosis was the "cause" of the invasion and subsequent occupation is a red herring. T/Cs need to stop excusing Turkey's occupation of Cyprus by blaming G/Cs for provoking Turkey. It is like accusing a woman who was raped for provoking her rapist. Turkey wanted to occupy Cyprus from the outset. T/Cs need to admit they have been party to the plunder of the island not just indirectly as the Turkish pretext for the occupation but also actively in collaborating with the occupiers and benefiting from the proceeds. There is no point in T/Cs trying to pass the buck for their own moral degradation by blaming Greek Cypriots for turning them into looters, scavengers and thieves. Everyone is accountable for their actions. T/Cs are no different.

[quattro]

circles.............circles............circles

[denizaksulu]

For Hermes:

First of all let me say this: There is no smoke without a fire.

The following might be of interest. The causes of the invasion on 1974 is not the matter under discussion I think, but of the first time GCs were calling for Enosis. OK?

Much is made of remarks that the first British High Commissioner, Sir Garnet Wolseley,
was greeted on arrival in Cyprus in July 1878 by Church leaders who appealed for
British assistance in achieving enosis. Though there is some confusion surrounding the
details of such representations, and though in fact the key representation attributed to
Archbishop Sophronios is suggested by Katsiaounis not to have occurred, but rather to be
the work of revisionist historians, it is still hard to refute the central idea that the onset of
British rule was met with hope amongst many Greek Cypriots that it could act as a catalyst
for enosis.422 For those stressing a British role in instigating nationalist conflict on
the island, such truths may be conveniently overlooked, but the reality is that the very fact
that Britain took over control from the Ottomans, rather than any specific policy they thereafter
employed, encouraged what was an already present nationalist desire for enosis.
With the beginning of British rule in 1878 the island was, from the standpoint of official
Greek history, liberated from the “terrible Turk”, though the expectation that this
would only be a transitional stage, which would shortly result in Britain facilitating the
transfer of the island to its rightful owner “mother” Greece, was soon to be dashed.423
This expectation is reflected well in the words of Greek Cypriot member of the Legislative
Council of Cyprus, George Chacalli, written less than a quarter of a century after the
British administration began. He reported that, “The Greeks of the island … hailed the
English occupation with heartfelt joy & with tears thanked the Almighty God, because
they considered the English Occupation as the precursor of the long cherished liberty &
felt confident that the noble & generous English nation would, as soon as circumstances
would allow it, hand over the island to Greece.”424
421.

Many of the sources and references are from Greek and Greek Cypriot authors.

[denizaksulu]

:eyecrazy: circles.............circles............circles

Was that too much zivania a la Lurucadi? gatse reh koumbare; you cant hold your drink.

[boulio]

these sources are a bit ambigious at best

After the Greek revolution of 1821 and the establishment of the Greek state, the Greek Cypriots expressed practically the wish of 'Union' with Greece, as it happened with the Ionian Islands and later with Crete.

ionian islands were united with greece in 1864
crete in 1913

[denizaksulu]

these sources are a bit ambigious at best

After the Greek revolution of 1821 and the establishment of the Greek state, the Greek Cypriots expressed practically the wish of 'Union' with Greece, as it happened with the Ionian Islands and later with Crete.

ionian islands were united with greece in 1864
crete in 1913

Still after 1821. History moves slowly.

If you wish to say NO. GCs did not aspire to ENOSIS in 1878, just say so. I do not condemn you for it.

[Hermes]

For Hermes:

First of all let me say this: There is no smoke without a fire.

The following might be of interest. The causes of the invasion on 1974 is not the matter under discussion I think, but of the first time GCs were calling for Enosis.

So what? Greek Cypriots sought liberation from the Turkish yoke in the 19th Century just as they continue to seek to liberate the occupied part of their island today. Are you saying that Greek Cypriots don't have the right to determine their destiny?

Today Greek Cypriots, as representatives of the ROC, have chosen enosis with Europe as a guarantee of their sovereignty. Unfortunately, Turkey is still stuck in the 19th Century and cannot conceive of a wholly free autonomous Cyprus within the EU. Until Turkey surrenders its grip on the north, Turkey will be excluded from its own cherished enosis with Europe.

You see how fashionable enosis is these days? Even Turkey has been dreaming of it for years...

[denizaksulu]

....but now we know Turkeys aims towards Cyprus were not 'honorable'. What most TCs believed at the time was that the TA would return after the legal goverment of the RoC was in place again. Ofcourse this did not happen. Turkeys 'secret' plans have become clearer. 'After the fact' matters always become more clearer.

Which is why the excuse that enosis was the "cause" of the invasion and subsequent occupation is a red herring. T/Cs need to stop excusing Turkey's occupation of Cyprus by blaming G/Cs for provoking Turkey. It is like accusing a woman who was raped for provoking her rapist. Turkey wanted to occupy Cyprus from the outset. T/Cs need to admit they have been party to the plunder of the island not just indirectly as the Turkish pretext for the occupation but also actively in collaborating with the occupiers and benefiting from the proceeds. There is no point in T/Cs trying to pass the buck for their own moral degradation by blaming Greek Cypriots for turning them into looters, scavengers and thieves. Everyone is accountable for their actions. T/Cs are no different.

Until the 1050's they had no interest in Cyprus. Their interest was triggered by UK/USA and the benefits they would reap from it.

[denizaksulu]

For Hermes:

First of all let me say this: There is no smoke without a fire.

The following might be of interest. The causes of the invasion on 1974 is not the matter under discussion I think, but of the first time GCs were calling for Enosis.

So what? Greek Cypriots sought liberation from the Turkish yoke in the 19th Century just as they continue to seek to liberate the occupied part of their island today. Are you saying that Greek Cypriots don't have the right to determine their destiny?

Today Greek Cypriots, as representatives of the ROC, have chosen enosis with Europe as a guarantee of their sovereignty. Unfortunately, Turkey is still stuck in the 19th Century and cannot conceive of a wholly free autonomous Cyprus within the EU. Until Turkey surrenders its grip on the north, Turkey will be excluded from its own cherished enosis with Europe.

You see how fashionable enosis is these days? Even Turkey has been dreaming of it for years...

I dont deny GC's or TC's anyone their right to live peacefully and independently from all outsiders. That is my dream. In Piratis famous words, 'NOT AT OUR EXPENSE'. bEFORE YOU SAY BUT THE ta IN 1974....just stop there . In NO way do I support the invasion and ethnic cleansing a la Turco of Cyprus.

[boulio]

i was always under the belief a unified cyprus in the eu and its geographic location would be a very dynamic player in the region.with both its g/c and t/c citizens.