so i guess g/c can claim that eoka was created not only for the liberation of cyprus but to also combat taksim
Have you forgotten that in 1950 you had a plebicit and voted for ENOSIS with Greece by a margin of 95%????? Don't play the who started it game,bulio,you cannot win that way...
so wot? wot's the big deal anyway? ur lot could have just gone along with it, and got 'orgasmic pleasure' watching re-runs of 'the 300 spartans' like the rest of them.... (greece would have remained hundreds of miles away, enosis or no enosis)... but no; u had to be difficult.... u preferred genghis f*cking khan as ur poster boy.
The big deal is back in the 50s there were a lot of people who still remembered the Anatolian invasion of your glorious Greek Army...Enough said???
Have you forgotten that in 1950 you had a plebicit and voted for ENOSIS with Greece by a margin of 95%????? Don't play the who started it game,bulio,you cannot win that way...
Sorry bir i never said anything about enosis,t/c and certain hi up t/c(kutchuk,dektash)wanted to either partition cyprus or deliver her to turkey all im saying since eoka was created in 1955 i thnk they were also created not just for the liberation of cyprus from britain but also to counter certain turkish cyortiot and turkish plans.Thats all.
Bir’s family was a protagonist TMT member; their house was the regional arms depot, their father the regional TMT commander/recruiter and the mother played her role in the cover up; the kids were used to hide the weapons etc.
Yet Bir comes on here today and asks EVERYONE ELSE to repent their CyProb sins!
The question I am asking YOU today Bir is…
ARE YOU READY TO REPENT YOURS AND THOSE OF YOUR FAMILY?
Cut the bullshit,GR... The TMT my father helped organise was a defensive organisation,formed to protect the TCs from highly likely attacks by EOKA- linked GC paramilitaries...I AND MY FAMILY HAVE NOTHING TO REPENT,WE HAVE COMMITTED NO SINS...What happened to the TMT after 1960 is no responsibility of ours...LIsten to what Bananiot is telling you...He is talking the truth..It might not be palatable for you,but that doesnt change the facts...
There you have it boys and girls... a self confessed TMT terrorist regards himself part of a "defensive organization" to this day!
Please pass this small token of my respects to your family if they’re still alive…
I will let others decide how much of a terrorist a terrorised 7-year old can be...I will pass your respects onto my mother who,at 90,is still alive and well,and waiting to return home one day to get some compensation for her 22 donum of land and a house she left behind in the South...Your kind gesture is much appreciated...
EOKA struggled to unite Cyprus with Greece. It was not a struggle for independence, let us be clear about this.
EOKA fought for our right for self-determination. Beyond that, it was up to us to democratically decide what we wanted to do with our own island.
Neither EOKA, nor TMT, nor Britain, nor Turkey, nor Greece, nor any minority - nobody - has the right to impose on Cyprus its will. The only ones who have this right are the Cypriot people themselves, and with one person one vote determine the destiny of this island among legitimate options.
According to the UN resolution about decolonization the legitimate options are: "free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence" http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
We fought for nothing more than our rights.
The struggle for freedom in the 50s was not just EOKA, but was supported by the vast majority of the Cypriot population. It was a REVOLUTION with more public support than most other revolutions in the world.
There is something wrong with your understanding of 'self-determination',Piratis...Self determination is not about getting rid of one colonial power and replacing it with another...And 'majority rights' do not involve totally ignoring the wishes of 18 % of your population,and wanting to unite with a country they consider as their mortal enemy...
That is a recepe for disaster,as time had proved...
You are a colony under a Colonial power if this is something imposed on you. Britain was a colonial power but this doesn't mean that Manchester was a colony, because Manchester is made up by mostly British people.
Greece was not a Colonial power (not in that era), and since the majority of the population of Cyprus are Greek and they wanted to be part of Greece, then Cyprus would be as much of a "colony" as Athens or Crete or Rhodes are.
We are as much Greek as any other Greek. If you think of us as your "mortal enemy" that is not our fault, and you can't blame us for this.
The fact is that when we started our revolution we had nothing against the TCs. We lived together with TCs for many years and the "historical enmity" was just part of the past and did not affect our relationship with TCs and our daily lives. Unfortunately some in Britain and Turkey decided that it would serve their interests to re-create that kind of enmity, and that is what they did.
You are right,Hermes...The term 'freedom fighters' is not enough to describe the TMT before 1960...I should have said 'life saving heros',because that was how they began their existance..
There is no point in restating your position as an apologist for the TMT. It should be clear to everyone by now.
In the face of all historical evidence of Turkish agitation and malevolence on the island that predates the struggle for independence, you are still spouting the same Denktash-era propaganda that has poisoned your community and led them into their current humiliation under Turkish subjugation. The moral corruption of the occupation has left few Turkish Cypriots unscathed. It is a fate they have truly brought on themselves.
We'd leave you to wallow in your own stupor if it wasn't for the fact that we wish to see our island free of the stain of occupation. Whether T/Cs have any dignity left to oppose Turkish policies in the north of the island is up to you. Turkey certainly can't hold T/Cs in any more contempt. Maybe a community that has allowed itself to be used so ruthlessly and so subserviently to the interests of others will inevitably be seen as contemptible even by those whose interests they have been so blindly eager to serve.
well,the fact that most TCs obviously prefer to be humiliated and colonised by Turkey than risk it again with you lot must tell you something...You ignored the strenght of he TC resistance to your belowed ENOSIS dream,nd you arrogantly and ruthlessly pushed to achieve your aims by hook or by crook...You have come unstuck,and you cannot acknowledge or accept your guilt...So be it...Till you come to your senses the Turkish army will remain in Cyprus forever a reminder of your callous desregard of TC feelings back in the 50s...Plus the forced enclaves,plus the massacres,plus the economic isolation and embargos...You made your bed,mate,now lie in it...We have no other choice,thanks to you, but return to our roots and learn to be good and obidient Turks again...
Have you forgotten that in 1950 you had a plebicit and voted for ENOSIS with Greece by a margin of 95%????? Don't play the who started it game,bulio,you cannot win that way...
Sorry bir i never said anything about enosis,t/c and certain hi up t/c(kutchuk,dektash)wanted to either partition cyprus or deliver her to turkey all im saying since eoka was created in 1955 i thnk they were also created not just for the liberation of cyprus from britain but also to counter certain turkish cyortiot and turkish plans.Thats all.
Funny,isn't it,that nobody talks about ENOSIS but everybody is keen to pile shit on the TMT and Taksim...The reason why we have not find a solution/cure to our problem,because we are very selective about which symptoms to consider,hence we cannot agree on the disease!!! The patient will die bofere we can even diagnose the illness...
EOKA struggled to unite Cyprus with Greece. It was not a struggle for independence, let us be clear about this.
EOKA fought for our right for self-determination. Beyond that, it was up to us to democratically decide what we wanted to do with our own island.
Neither EOKA, nor TMT, nor Britain, nor Turkey, nor Greece, nor any minority - nobody - has the right to impose on Cyprus its will. The only ones who have this right are the Cypriot people themselves, and with one person one vote determine the destiny of this island among legitimate options.
According to the UN resolution about decolonization the legitimate options are: "free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence" http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
We fought for nothing more than our rights.
The struggle for freedom in the 50s was not just EOKA, but was supported by the vast majority of the Cypriot population. It was a REVOLUTION with more public support than most other revolutions in the world.
There is something wrong with your understanding of 'self-determination',Piratis...Self determination is not about getting rid of one colonial power and replacing it with another...And 'majority rights' do not involve totally ignoring the wishes of 18 % of your population,and wanting to unite with a country they consider as their mortal enemy...
That is a recepe for disaster,as time had proved...
You are a colony under a Colonial power if this is something imposed on you. Britain was a colonial power but this doesn't mean that Manchester was a colony, because Manchester is made up by mostly British people.
Greece was not a Colonial power (not in that era), and since the majority of the population of Cyprus are Greek and they wanted to be part of Greece, then Cyprus would be as much of a "colony" as Athens or Crete or Rhodes are.
We are as much Greek as any other Greek. If you think of us as your "mortal enemy" that is not our fault, and you can't blame us for this.
The fact is that when we started our revolution we had nothing against the TCs. We lived together with TCs for many years and the "historical enmity" was just part of the past and did not affect our relationship with TCs and our daily lives. Unfortunately some in Britain and Turkey decided that it would serve their interests to re-create that kind of enmity, and that is what they did.
Piratis,
You know I agree with you on the British and American role in our conflict...And you know that I would even agree with you that ENOSIS was a legitimate desire of the GC people...But...It did not make it right...Your leaders at the time knew how the TCs felt about Enosis with Greece,and they pushed hard for it anyway..They should've known it would lead to disaster..That is the mistake I want you to admit...
For example,it might be a legitimate desire for the majority of people in Turkey to become an Islamic republic,but it would be disasterous for Turkey if they tried to achieve it by force...Do you see my point???
BirKibrisli wrote:The TMT initially was as much of a freedomfighting organisation for the TCs as the original EOKA was for the GCs...
Dear God! An apologist for the role of the TMT in Cyprus! Now we know where you've been coming from all this time!
The main role of the TMT was not protecting the T/Cs as you claim but in promoting the partition of Cyprus. You seem unaware that the TMT was a pro-taksim paramilitary organisation formed by Rauf Denktash and Turkish military officers to bring partition.
You also seem unaware that TMT attacks on Greek Cypriot properties went back to the 1950s and that the Turkish state had sent Turkish officers and Special forces veterans in the guise of bankers, teachers and businessmen in order to train Turkish Cypriots in guerilla attacks on Greek Cypriots.
It's also well known that in 1963 the TMT was responsible for the creation of Turkish Cypriot enclaves throughout the island, into which it forced the majority of Turkish Cypriots in pursuit of its separatist agenda.
I always knew there was something deeply unpleasant about how far you would go in defending the 1974 invasion as a necessary and justified act of collective punishment against the Greek Cypriot population. But I had no idea of the extent of your own emotional investment in Turkey's prior interventionist crimes in Cyprus.
I find this an extraordinary personal confession to make on a public forum. Not for its honesty but for its self-deception and delusion. In defending a treacherous and extremist organisation such as the TMT as "freedom fighters" you nail your colours to the fascist mast.
Historians suggest the TMT were many things but they were not "freedom fighters". The TMT killed not just Greek Cypriots but also many Turkish Cypriots in pursuit of their goal of partition. The struggle to unify the island is a struggle against everything the TMT stood for: Turkish fascism, racism and expansionism.
At least we know where you stand in the historical struggle for freedom in Cyprus. It explains a lot.
You are right,Hermes...The term 'freedom fighters' is not enough to describe the TMT before 1960...I should have said 'life saving heros',because that was how they began their existance...You do not want to believe this because that would be admitting that your ancestors had bloody intentions towards their compatriots...You,like Piratis and a few others,prefer to keep your head firmly in GC state propaganda shit,repaeating parrot fashion their well rehearsed lines...I will take Banaiot's advice and not waste my time on you,yiou are a lost case...
The hard facts show that it is the TCs who started the inter-communal conflict in the 50s, when they collaborated with the foreign imperialists to help them oppress the Cypriot revolution, demanded that we should be exterminated from half of our island, and started to murder innocent GCs.
Up until then we've done nothing against TCs. We were fighting against the colonialists for our right to democratically determine the destiny of our own island, a right that has been denied to us for centuries by foreign oppressors who conquered our island to serve their own interests and created (and continue to create) major problems to the Cypriot people.
Oh NOOOOO Not that video again....
Piratis,I understand that you cannot afford to open your mind and let some truth and sense sip in...Your whole life-stand,your reason d'etre would be under grave danger...But delusions cannot change the facts... You will go to your grave believing what you believe...You are a hopeless case...Enjoy!
Translation: "oh NOOOO Piratis ... please don't give any evidence to support what you say".
Sorry Bir, but I will not do you the favor. All the facts support what I say, while you have nothing whatsoever to support the lies that you are producing.
The fact is that it is the TCs that started the inter-communal conflict in the 50s. So stop trying to deny this, because you are as believable as Turks denying the Armenian genocide.
What do you have to say about the broadcasts from Turkey and Turkish newspaper articles inciting TCs to murder GCs and start a civil war. Here, from the records of the British government: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... 617_HOC_12
Maybe it was Piratis who was making the broadcasts and writing those articles?
Give up the lame excuses Bir. The facts are very clear:
The Cypriot people revolted seeking their freedom from the Colonialists. There was absolutely nothing against the TCs. The British not wanting to give up control of Cyprus due to their own geo-strategic interests, they made a deal with Turkey: Turkey would use their Turkish minority on the island to create a civil war and destruct Cypriots from their revolution, while at the same time giving an excuse to the imperialists to deny to Cypriots their freedom. In return Turkey would get her own share in the control of Cyprus.
After this deal was made, Turkey armed and brainwashed the TCs, making them to attack the GCs and start the inter-communal conflict. As a bonus they offered to the TCs many Ottoman style gains on the expense of the majority of the population, to ensure that the division within the population would be maintained, and in this way guarantee for themselves the control of Cyprus for several more decades.
You are obviously not able to put yourself into TC shoes...
We are talking about the 50s,Piratis...The experiences of WWI were still in living memory...As far as the TCs were concerned Greece was the mortal enemy,the people whose army had invaded Anatolia and committed untold attrocities to the Turkish people...Your 'freedom' was our 'slavery' our 'destruction'...By insisting on ENOSIS you gave the Brits the ultimate weapon to divide us...That is the sin you have to live with...That is what you must repent...Don't hide behind 'freedom' and 'self determination ' bullshit...You totally and bloodymindedly ignored the fears and feelings of 18% of your compatriots and paid the price...Time you admitted this...
By the same token it was a "sin" for any part of Greece to be liberated because Turkish minorities were created all over Greece during Ottoman rule.
I can understand how you would prefer Cyprus not to be part of Greece. But talking about "destruction" and "slavery" is a gross exaggeration, the kind of gross exaggerations that were used to fanaticize the TCs and inside them to attack GCs and start the conflict in the 50s.
The Muslim/Turkish population in mainland Greece has increased since the exchange of populations, while the same can not be said for the Greek population in Turkey.
From reading some of your stories I know you visited a friend of Turkish ethnicity who lives in Greece. You therefore must know from first hand that those people are not "slaves" but actually have higher standards of living than the average Turkish person who lives in Turkey.
If Greeks were so cruel to the Turks, then Turks would have moved out of Greece and would go to Turkey, like Greeks did who most of them moved out from Turkey and went to Greece to have a better life.
People voted with their feet on this, and prove that your gross exaggerations are false.
If you respected the wishes of the Cypriot people and did not allow yourselves to be manipulated in such a way by UK and Turkey, then our problems in Cyprus would be far less, there would be no conflicts, no deaths, no refugees, and certainly there would be far more TCs in Cyprus than those that are in Cyprus now, as a result of you choosing the path of war, instead of the path of peace and respect to the democratic choices of the Cypriot people.
I don't blame the TCs of that time. Most of them, like GCs, were uneducated peasants who were easily manipulated. But you have no excuse not to be able to see the true facts, and to believe that TCs starting an inter-communal conflict and demanding our annihilation from half of our island was supposedly a justified response to our struggle for freedom and self-determination. You have no excuse not only because you are more educated than most of the TCs of that time, but because you also have the benefit of hindsight, which unfortunately you refuse to use as it doesn't match the story that you have been brainwashed with since the 50s.
Funny,isn't it,that nobody talks about ENOSIS but everybody is keen to pile shit on the TMT and Taksim...The reason why we have not find a solution/cure to our problem,because we are very selective about which symptoms to consider,hence we cannot agree on the disease!!! The patient will die bofere we can even diagnose the illness...
bir i m just stating that eoka may have had a objective of liberating cyprus from the britsh and also countering turkish plans thats all.why do you keep talking about enosis?
i think their oblective was this:
1)get ride of british
2)dont let in turks
3)if to become part of greece than thru a plebisite as you stated(democratic vehicle)they join greece.
BirKibrisli wrote:well,the fact that most TCs obviously prefer to be humiliated and colonised by Turkey than risk it again with you lot must tell you something...You ignored the strenght of he TC resistance to your belowed ENOSIS dream,nd you arrogantly and ruthlessly pushed to achieve your aims by hook or by crook...You have come unstuck,and you cannot acknowledge or accept your guilt...So be it...Till you come to your senses the Turkish army will remain in Cyprus forever a reminder of your callous desregard of TC feelings back in the 50s...Plus the forced enclaves,plus the massacres,plus the economic isolation and embargos...You made your bed,mate,now lie in it...We have no other choice,thanks to you, but return to our roots and learn to be good and obidient Turks again...
The fact that you think T/Cs would prefer humiliation and subjugation under Turkish military rule rather than living in freedom and democracy in an EU member state says much about the contempt you hold your own compatriots in. Becoming good and obedient Turks is not a prospect some of them seem that keen on at present. Especially if it means having to compete for work in what passes for the private sector in the north. At least some T/Cs are finally waking up to the reality of existence under the Turkish yoke and the realisation that becoming aborigines on a reservation is not what they want for themselves or their children. It doesn't seem to bother you much but perhaps you never thought that T/Cs deserved any better given their implication in Turkey's crimes on the island.
